HF Habs: Most disappointing Hughes Acquisition (All Michkov draft talk here)

[AHShadow]

Hughes traded for Hutson — brilliant move — but didn’t trade for Mešar. Strange how that works.

Yup he traded for all the good picks, but the bad picks were all cause of development / the prospects fault.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah and agreed. My overall argument was that Hughes didn't bring any impactful trades via trade even if overall he was still able to get really impactful players otherwise (developed/drafted).

Through that lense you're mostly right, although I'd say Matheson has been an impactful player. That was a great trade.

For the most part though it's been picks/prospects. As I said though, I expect we'll see more vet trades coming soon.

 

[Miller Time]

most disappointing acquisition may be coming up this summer for many, if/when Hughes ends up only acquiring 1-2 depth fillers but otherwise decides to run it back with the guys in-house for a 2nd straight offseason, trusting in the internal development of the 25U core for main improvements and the progression of rookies/23U players to offset the losses of Armia/Dvorak/Savard.

While I think they will try for 1 or 2 "big" adds, if they can't find the right fit at the right price, I bet KH & co. are more comfortable with the status quo than most fans will be...

CC Suzuki Demidov
Slaf Dach Newhook
Laine Kapanen Heineman
Anderson Evans Gally
Roy/Beck

Guhle Hutson
Matheson Carrier
Xhekaj/Strubble Reinbacher
Mailloux

Monty
Dobes

depth in the event of injury would be the big problem, but otherwise, on paper this lineup in fall of 2025 is not really any weaker than the lineup at the start of 2024, and arguably stronger consider the age/development of the young core (swapping Dvorak/Armia for Demidov/Kapanen up front and Carrier/Reinbacher for Barron/Savard on back end)

 

[Habsfunk]

The idea Hughes traded for Hutson is silly. He traded for the draft pick. He took a gamble on Hutson when every other team passed on him, including Montreal three times. In another time frame, Seattle takes him at 61 and we end up with David Goyette instead. We could very easily be wondering why we traded Brett Kulak, who's playing very well for Edmonton, for a floundering prospect.

 

[Lshap]

Disagree fully.l in the context of discussing management efficacy.

Looking only at the result tells us nothing about the management competency.

It's fine to say the trade worked out great. But to hold it up as a sign of good decision making is falsified by the knowledge that he wanted Glass and settled for Suzuki.

Distinguishing between process and outcome is key in assessing management. Focusing on only the result is exactly how poor managers "fail up", and is the hallmark of poorly run organizations.

Agree with the philosophy, but I'm skeptical of this particular story. I have no trouble believing Glass was somewhere on Bergevin's list of possible acquisitions, but the story that he 'really wanted Glass' sounds like a fan exaggeration to deny Bergevin any credit for a great result. I get that we don't like Bergevin, but unless there's a credible report that he enthusiastically targeted Glass and had to 'settle' for Suzuki, the whole thing sounds like spin.

Where did this story come from anyway? I'm sincerely curious. How do we know Bergevin's secret wish-list for this particular trade, but have no idea who he really wanted for every other trade he made? Would it mitigate the Drouin trade if, say, Bergevin really wanted Point? Of course not. We only care about results. Except for the Suzuki trade, where we keep repeating this Glass story as if we know Bergevin's secret intentions. Again - I'm sure Glass was on the negotiation list, along with Suzuki and probably a couple of other players. In the end, he was happy with Suzuki or the deal would never have happened.

That's my Saturday morning rant!

 

[BLONG7]

The idea Hughes traded for Hutson is silly. He traded for the draft pick. He took a gamble on Hutson when every other team passed on him, including Montreal three times. In another time frame, Seattle takes him at 61 and we end up with David Goyette instead. We could very easily be wondering why we traded Brett Kulak, who's playing very well for Edmonton, for a floundering prospect.

Coulda, woulda shoulda...........
The old saying, if my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.

I will agree on one part, we drafted Hutson, not traded for him.............that said getting a 2nd for Kulak was a great trade..........the FACT we got Hutson with it, is even better.

In the words of MB.........Trades are hard!! LOL

 

[salbutera]

Agree with the philosophy, but I'm skeptical of this particular story. I have no trouble believing Glass was somewhere on Bergevin's list of possible acquisitions, but the story that he 'really wanted Glass' sounds like a fan exaggeration to deny Bergevin any credit for a great result. I get that we don't like Bergevin, but unless there's a credible report that he enthusiastically targeted Glass and had to 'settle' for Suzuki, the whole thing sounds like spin.

Where did this story come from anyway? I'm sincerely curious. How do we know Bergevin's secret wish-list for this particular trade, but have no idea who he really wanted for every other trade he made? Would it mitigate the Drouin trade if, say, Bergevin really wanted Point? Of course not. We only care about results. Except for the Suzuki trade, where we keep repeating this Glass story as if we know Bergevin's secret intentions. Again - I'm sure Glass was on the negotiation list, along with Suzuki and probably a couple of other players. In the end, he was happy with Suzuki or the deal would never have happened.

That's my Saturday morning rant!

Additionally, the Vegas trade only happened because Pacioretty refused a deal to LAK, which would’ve included Villardi in a package

Reminds me of the horrid take we heard for years on the Expos dealing Randy Johnson in the Langston trade. Seattle begrudgingly accepted RJ, he was a throw in as 3rd asset in the deal, Mariners were laser focused on the other two assets: Gene Harris & Brian Holman

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Agreed. Bergevin was a skillful trader. I don't know why we can't acknowledge his strengths along with his obvious weaknesses. He wasn't the man for the job, but that's no reason to deny him credit for those trades*.

*The claim that "Bergevin really wanted Glass instead of Suzuki" is one of the silliest critiques I've heard. Every single GM comes to the trade table with multiple names. Trades don't just happen; they're negotiations, for godsakes. Do we judge other trades by who else the GM might have gotten? Of course not. All we care about are the results. Except for this trade, where some people think Bergevin ended up with Suzuki by sheer accident.

True. Even if MB asked for Glass, it might have been part of the negociation tactics knowing Vegas would refuse and would have to settle for Suzuki but Suzuki was their target all along. It's pointless to speculate what was in whose heads. We don't know, we'll never know. But it's par for the course with us fans we cannot be objective. We like the GMs, coaches, players we like and we'll give them every benefit of the doubt and we don't like the ones we don't and will never give them an ounce of leeway. It is what it is.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

most disappointing acquisition may be coming up this summer for many, if/when Hughes ends up only acquiring 1-2 depth fillers but otherwise decides to run it back with the guys in-house for a 2nd straight offseason, trusting in the internal development of the 25U core for main improvements and the progression of rookies/23U players to offset the losses of Armia/Dvorak/Savard.

While I think they will try for 1 or 2 "big" adds, if they can't find the right fit at the right price, I bet KH & co. are more comfortable with the status quo than most fans will be...

CC Suzuki Demidov
Slaf Dach Newhook
Laine Kapanen Heineman
Anderson Evans Gally
Roy/Beck

Guhle Hutson
Matheson Carrier
Xhekaj/Strubble Reinbacher
Mailloux

Monty
Dobes

depth in the event of injury would be the big problem, but otherwise, on paper this lineup in fall of 2025 is not really any weaker than the lineup at the start of 2024, and arguably stronger consider the age/development of the young core (swapping Dvorak/Armia for Demidov/Kapanen up front and Carrier/Reinbacher for Barron/Savard on back end)

If the rumors of Price's bonus being due on september first are true... then it will really complicate matters because we can't make trades or sign players assuming we can trade him in september. And if we can't then we have a measly 8M to work with and after RFAs it will not be much to do much of anything.

Unless there is some way that we can put a deal on hold to be triggered at a certain time in the future which I don't know if that's possible that the other team can't back out of at the last minute.

 

[montreal]

Agree with the philosophy, but I'm skeptical of this particular story. I have no trouble believing Glass was somewhere on Bergevin's list of possible acquisitions, but the story that he 'really wanted Glass' sounds like a fan exaggeration to deny Bergevin any credit for a great result. I get that we don't like Bergevin, but unless there's a credible report that he enthusiastically targeted Glass and had to 'settle' for Suzuki, the whole thing sounds like spin.

Where did this story come from anyway? I'm sincerely curious. How do we know Bergevin's secret wish-list for this particular trade, but have no idea who he really wanted for every other trade he made? Would it mitigate the Drouin trade if, say, Bergevin really wanted Point? Of course not. We only care about results. Except for the Suzuki trade, where we keep repeating this Glass story as if we know Bergevin's secret intentions. Again - I'm sure Glass was on the negotiation list, along with Suzuki and probably a couple of other players. In the end, he was happy with Suzuki or the deal would never have happened.

That's my Saturday morning rant!

The way I heard it was MB wanted Glass, but was told no go from Vegas, Timmins gave the ok for Suzuki so MB did the deal.

 

[BLONG7]

If the rumors of Price's bonus being due on september first are true... then it will really complicate matters because we can't make trades or sign players assuming we can trade him in september. And if we can't then we have a measly 8M to work with and after RFAs it will not be much to do much of anything.

Unless there is some way that we can put a deal on hold to be triggered at a certain time in the future which I don't know if that's possible that the other team can't back out of at the last minute.

I think the cap will be 95.5M and you can be 10 per cent over the cap all offseason so I don't think that changes anything a whole lot............
Could they trade him, and make the deal that they will pay the bonus is due?
Trust in HuGo.....

 

[Miller Time]

Agree with the philosophy, but I'm skeptical of this particular story. I have no trouble believing Glass was somewhere on Bergevin's list of possible acquisitions, but the story that he 'really wanted Glass' sounds like a fan exaggeration to deny Bergevin any credit for a great result. I get that we don't like Bergevin, but unless there's a credible report that he enthusiastically targeted Glass and had to 'settle' for Suzuki, the whole thing sounds like spin.

Where did this story come from anyway? I'm sincerely curious. How do we know Bergevin's secret wish-list for this particular trade, but have no idea who he really wanted for every other trade he made? Would it mitigate the Drouin trade if, say, Bergevin really wanted Point? Of course not. We only care about results. Except for the Suzuki trade, where we keep repeating this Glass story as if we know Bergevin's secret intentions. Again - I'm sure Glass was on the negotiation list, along with Suzuki and probably a couple of other players. In the end, he was happy with Suzuki or the deal would never have happened.

That's my Saturday morning rant!

I don't recall the original source of the Glass target... But I don't think it emerged as an attempt to discredit him, quite the opposite really as it surfaced at a time where Glass was still the higher rated prospect.

Either way, they were very similar prospects at the time. The hindsight reality that Suzuki is an elite player & glass is struggling to stay in the NHL is precisely why looking at the long term outcome isn't a great way to assess the decision making and value of the trade at the time.

Personally, I thought the trade was a weak return to begin with. For what Pacioretty was, I think we got average to mediocre trade return. That Tatar bounced back to an ok level and Suzuki went nuclear makes it a clear success for our organization, whereas if we had got glass instead of would be a clear failure.

Good, even great outcome, iffy trade. Imo it's not one of his better trades. The Drouin trade was much better trade value at the time, even though in hindsight that one was his biggest flop/worst outcome.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Mesar when Kulich was on the board, not sure if was to have a friend for Slaf but that doesn’t work when one isn’t an NHLr

 

[salbutera]

If the rumors of Price's bonus being due on september first are true... then it will really complicate matters because we can't make trades or sign players assuming we can trade him in september. And if we can't then we have a measly 8M to work with and after RFAs it will not be much to do much of anything.

Unless there is some way that we can put a deal on hold to be triggered at a certain time in the future which I don't know if that's possible that the other team can't back out of at the last minute.

Bonus is usually paid out July 1st, I’d expect Price contract to be dealt after July 2nd - his actually salary next season covered by insurance is $2.5M

Nevermind, I stand corrected, Price’s bonuses per puckpedia is apparently paid Sept 1

Worth keeping in mind Habs have $4.3M additional cap space w Petry & Allen retentions coming off the books

 

[The Great Weal]

There is no way you can praise or criticize Hughes yet. Trading away vets, getting paid to take on cap dumps, and drafting well using the numerous quality draft picks you have is probably the easiest thing a GM can do. He's made some bad moves but there is way more vision in his moves than MB. The real test is this offseason with tons of cap space and the team needing to take the next step. If all he does is sit on his ass and trades for another project and takes on a cap dump again, he deserves to get criticized big time. If he addresses the 2C and top 4 RHD position, he deserves praise.

 

[jrom]

Meh, Mitchkov slid from what second to seventh or at the very least top 5 to seventh. Ramblings about him not coming to NA and still being under a 3 year KHL contract didn't help. That being said, I believe the Demidov pick is a direct result of Mitchkov proving the 6 teams that passed on him wrong. It might have given HuGo the assurance that there was indeed a good chance Demidov would come to NA. As for Dach and Newhook, low risk to medium/high reward. They didn't cost all that much all things considered. Same with Barron. Barron didn't work out but Hughes made up for it. Carrier has been a solid acquisition in my opinion and should help the young core next year. It's good change from Bargain bin always going for those 4th liners. Dach and Newhook could very well turn out to be 4th liners but at the time of the trade they looked to be 2nd or at worst 3rd line players. I still think Dach and Newhook can have a role with the Habs on the third line should we be able to land a 2C.

Nah, pretty sure they were dead set on not drafting Michkov for character reasons (right or wrong) and they got lucky Demidov dropped to 5th and they ran to the stage to pick him.

 

[jellybeans]

Mesar and Newhook.

 

[Anardil]

At this point, I go back and forth between his two 'speed up the rebuild trades' Dach and Newhook. He's done well in his other trades and picks AFAIAC. Free agency does not enter the equation for me, as no one of importance has ever signed with the Habs.

 

[River Meadow]

At this point, I go back and forth between his two 'speed up the rebuild trades' Dach and Newhook. He's done well in his other trades and picks AFAIAC. Free agency does not enter the equation for me, as no one of importance has ever signed with the Habs.

Right, and both of those trades were some of the most important ones he made.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

At this point, I go back and forth between his two 'speed up the rebuild trades' Dach and Newhook. He's done well in his other trades and picks AFAIAC. Free agency does not enter the equation for me, as no one of importance has ever signed with the Habs.

Neither has worked out, that's for sure.

I'll keep saying this though. Even though I thought we gave up too much for Dach, I get the trade.

Dach had a lot of potential when he was drafted and wasn't that far removed from his draft. If he reached his potential, it even just approached it, he would fill a big need for this team.

Newhook though, I don't get the thought process. He had nowhere near the same potential and wasn't going to fill a major need.

If Dach approached his potential we wouldn't really be able to find that very easily. Newhook you, we could.

 

[sandviper]

Neither has worked out, that's for sure.

I'll keep saying this though. Even though I thought we gave up too much for Dach, I get the trade.

Dach had a lot of potential when he was drafted and wasn't that far removed from his draft. If he reached his potential, it even just approached it, he would fill a big need for this team.

Newhook though, I don't get the thought process. He had nowhere near the same potential and wasn't going to fill a major need.

If Dach approached his potential we wouldn't really be able to find that very easily. Newhook you, we could.

I agree. Dach had a lot of potential and had flashes of brilliance before his injuries. It’s a trade I would had made as well at the time.

Newhook was probably the “worst” trade. We gave up a lot given his potential at the time and what he’s shown us now.

That said, I think Newhook is salvageable if we put him in the right chair as MSL likes to say. I can’t say I feel the same about Dach. I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think he’ll ever reach his true ceiling.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

most disappointing acquisition may be coming up this summer for many, if/when Hughes ends up only acquiring 1-2 depth fillers but otherwise decides to run it back with the guys in-house for a 2nd straight offseason, trusting in the internal development of the 25U core for main improvements and the progression of rookies/23U players to offset the losses of Armia/Dvorak/Savard.

While I think they will try for 1 or 2 "big" adds, if they can't find the right fit at the right price, I bet KH & co. are more comfortable with the status quo than most fans will be...

CC Suzuki Demidov
Slaf Dach Newhook
Laine Kapanen Heineman
Anderson Evans Gally
Roy/Beck

Guhle Hutson
Matheson Carrier
Xhekaj/Strubble Reinbacher
Mailloux

Monty
Dobes

depth in the event of injury would be the big problem, but otherwise, on paper this lineup in fall of 2025 is not really any weaker than the lineup at the start of 2024, and arguably stronger consider the age/development of the young core (swapping Dvorak/Armia for Demidov/Kapanen up front and Carrier/Reinbacher for Barron/Savard on back end)

Dach back at 2C is the definition of insanity

Nobody who can dig the pick out on the top line

Newhook in the top 6

Atrocious

We have to do better

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Neither has worked out, that's for sure.

I'll keep saying this though. Even though I thought we gave up too much for Dach, I get the trade.

Dach had a lot of potential when he was drafted and wasn't that far removed from his draft. If he reached his potential, it even just approached it, he would fill a big need for this team.

Newhook though, I don't get the thought process. He had nowhere near the same potential and wasn't going to fill a major need.

If Dach approached his potential we wouldn't really be able to find that very easily. Newhook you, we could.

The Dach trade is the equivalent of the Griffin Reinhart trade Edmonton made years ago. Trade a high 1st + for a busting former top-5 pick

 

[salbutera]

The Dach trade is the equivalent of the Griffin Reinhart trade Edmonton made years ago. Trade a high 1st + for a busting former top-5 pick

13OA is not a “high 1st” - historical probability a 13OA has a 5yr+ NHL career as top-6F / top-4D is less than 10%

 

[drebola]

HuGo still being carried by Barginbin players. He needs to deliver next year, enough excuses.