Player Discussion Most disappointing Hughes Acquisition (All Michkov draft talk here)

[26Mats]

ya.. this michkov talk is getting old

I would have liked to have seen what Michkov and Demidov could do together.

But let's see what Reinbacher and Michkov are in their primes. Way too early for me to know.

I think Michkov will be similar to Caufield. If so I would take my chances with a Caufield on each of our top 2 lines. But Reinbacher could be a godsend. Big, smooth two way RD...

 

[Tabarouette]

Even if, and that's a pretty big if, Reinbacher turns into a #1D that can compare to Michkov, and that means not a pretty good #1D, it means an UNDENIABLE elite, most-likely superstar level #1D... We still have passed on the one thing we've been needing for decades and decades and decades. Most of us have never seen a Michkov on this team in our lifetimes, it's f***ing infuriating

We had a 20 at the blackjack table, the house gave us 10 to 1 payoff to bet it all on hitting an ace and we took the bait, horrible horrible horrible decision no matter the outcome, it's a bet you don't make

ya.. this michkov talk is getting old

yeah strap in you have 15-20 years of it ahead of you

 

[HabzSauce]

In terms of character Michkov is a plus plus plus? What are you smoking? Like sure the character issues are probably overblown but to say his character is what Crosby level is an insane take, or a complete misreading of my post. And no Michkov isn't grittier or have a higher compete then Caufield.

A small offensive winger who gets most of his points on the PP and isn't good defensively can clearly produce come playoff time? I'll have to see it first because it's not at all clear he will be easily do it come playoff time since there are countless players who have struggled come playoff time.

Plus plus In terms of overall. In terms of attitude and compete I never said he was Crosby level. But speaking of Crosby, Michkov does remind me of him - both with his game and his personality . Crosby was a little b*tch when he was young but he matured as he got older.

Attitude is only part of the equation. Caufield has a great attitude, However id rather the mamba mentality aka guys like MJ/Kobe/etc - all the dogs, the killers, the assholes. Michkov is way closer to guys like that than caufield is. Those types are winners.

Btw Michkov has more ES points than he does PP. And they are both small wingers who lack defence. Big difference is Cole is one dimensional. Great at scoring goals and not much else. Whereas Michkov can do a lot more with and without the puck. His IQ and instinct are out of this world.

As for playoffs we should pump the brakes there. Michkov just joined the league and CC has only had one playoff run when he was a rookie and nobody really knew about him.

 

[Sorinth]

Plus plus In terms of overall. In terms of attitude and compete I never said he was Crosby level. But speaking of Crosby, Michkov does remind me of him - both with his game and his personality . Crosby was a little b*tch when he was young but he matured as he got older.

Attitude is only part of the equation. Caufield has a great attitude, However id rather the mamba mentality aka guys like MJ/Kobe/etc - all the dogs, the killers, the assholes. Michkov is way closer to guys like that than caufield is. Those types are winners.

Btw Michkov has more ES points than he does PP. And they are both small wingers who lack defence. Big difference is Cole is one dimensional. Great at scoring goals and not much else. Whereas Michkov can do a lot more with and without the puck. His IQ and instinct are out of this world.

As for playoffs we should pump the brakes there. Michkov just joined the league and CC has only had one playoff run when he was a rookie and nobody really knew about him.

Well if you read the post I was talking specifically about character when talking pluses. And yeah I would agree offensively Michkov is likely better but that's not the only factor that needs to be considered especially when talking about being building block for a team. Will Michkov leave money on the table when his ELC is up? I kind of doubt it, and not because Michkov has a bad attitude, it's simply not something most players will do, but it is something Caufield did.

We still have passed on the one thing we've been needing for decades and decades and decades. Most of us have never seen a Michkov on this team in our lifetimes, it's f***ing infuriating

Well in 1 year you will see a Michkov level player/prospect playing for us.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Even if, and that's a pretty big if, Reinbacher turns into a #1D that can compare to Michkov, and that means not a pretty good #1D, it means an UNDENIABLE elite, most-likely superstar level #1D... We still have passed on the one thing we've been needing for decades and decades and decades. Most of us have never seen a Michkov on this team in our lifetimes, it's f***ing infuriating

We had a 20 at the blackjack table, the house gave us 10 to 1 payoff to bet it all on hitting an ace and we took the bait, horrible horrible horrible decision no matter the outcome, it's a bet you don't make


yeah strap in you have 15-20 years of it ahead of you

If a prospect is projected to be a point-per-game player, there are very few D who would be worth taking over that level of production.

Michkov off to a good start with his P/GP.

Hughes said Reinbacher’s ceiling is a “D2”, before the injuries.

So far, not falling in our favour.

 

[Frankenheimer]

For those obsessed with the question of Reinbacher/Michkov, an interesting point of comparison could be the 2009 draft when Tavares was selected ahead of Hedman. It's become clear over time that Hedman was the better pick, but this only became clear about 6-8 years after the draft.

I was also shocked and disappointed that Michkov was not drafted, but I'm not going to stress about it for the next few years obsessively looking at his stats and projecting the future on that basis. Ultimately, all I care about is winning a cup. It's not at all clear which player will contribute more to that eventuality, just as it was not clear with Tavares/Hedman (and Hedman while considered good, was also viewed as underwhelming the first four years).

Both the copers and the venters are irritating at equal measures at this point. Neither of these groups are GM material.

 

[Kennerback]

A frustrating thing about the Flyers and Michkov, is that unlike Demidov, he’s already migrated to NA safely, he’s playing hockey, away from Rottenberg. That’s got to be worth something. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[Ezpz]

Plus plus In terms of overall. In terms of attitude and compete I never said he was Crosby level. But speaking of Crosby, Michkov does remind me of him - both with his game and his personality . Crosby was a little b*tch when he was young but he matured as he got older.

Attitude is only part of the equation. Caufield has a great attitude, However id rather the mamba mentality aka guys like MJ/Kobe/etc - all the dogs, the killers, the assholes. Michkov is way closer to guys like that than caufield is. Those types are winners.

Btw Michkov has more ES points than he does PP. And they are both small wingers who lack defence. Big difference is Cole is one dimensional. Great at scoring goals and not much else. Whereas Michkov can do a lot more with and without the puck. His IQ and instinct are out of this world.

As for playoffs we should pump the brakes there. Michkov just joined the league and CC has only had one playoff run when he was a rookie and nobody really knew about him.

Just wanted to say hockey isn't basketball
The mamba mentality includes deriding team mates and not sharing secrets to success to avoid having competition for your spot. And demanding to have your weaker link team mates traded. That just doesn't work in hockey where one player can't carry a team.

If anything history has shown those guys don't have the same level of success in hockey. Jeremy roenick, evander Kane, Brett hull, Ryan kesler, Eric lindros, Alexei yashin, etc.

Even hull who was more successful jumped to elite teams as the final piece instead of being a core from the ground up kind of piece.

Chris Pronger is obviously the unlimited success version of that but by all accounts he was a great team mate and only a shithead to other teams.

I won't count goalies because they are actually playing alone on the ice and many big headed goalies have had success.

Michkov is good but he's only slightly better Cole caufield right now. There is not some elite separation between them though obviously michkov is a rookie, albeit 20 already. Cole is still the better player 5v5. Michkov's pp abilities would be a godsend for us but our scouts said nah.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If caufield is a plus plus then Michkov is a plus plus plus plus.

I don't see any rationale for keeping caufield over Michkov to be honest. Michkov also has a lethal shot, but also a far better playmaker, more gritty, higher compete. He brings way more to the table. We're talking the 1B to bedard here. Caufield season high after 4-5 seasons is 65 points. Michkov is already PPG in his rookie season at 20 years old.

Mich may indeed wind up a better player. Incredible rookie season so far.

To be fair to CC though, when healthy under MSL CC has consistently paced for around 50 goals - as far back as his rookie year. The only times he hasn’t done this was under Mumbles or when he had his injury. He has great numbers but they should be even better than they are.

But yeah, Michkov’s production is terrific and he could well be a superstar. I haven’t seen him enough to say one way or the other but the production’s there.

 

[Kents polished head]

For those obsessed with the question of Reinbacher/Michkov, an interesting point of comparison could be the 2009 draft when Tavares was selected ahead of Hedman. It's become clear over time that Hedman was the better pick, but this only became clear about 6-8 years after the draft.

I was also shocked and disappointed that Michkov was not drafted, but I'm not going to stress about it for the next few years obsessively looking at his stats and projecting the future on that basis. Ultimately, all I care about is winning a cup. It's not at all clear which player will contribute more to that eventuality, just as it was not clear with Tavares/Hedman (and Hedman while considered good, was also viewed as underwhelming the first four years).

Both the copers and the venters are irritating at equal measures at this point. Neither of these groups are GM material.

I'm not obsessed with Michkov (my pick was Leonard), but let's get real. Hedman was absolutely a concensus 2nd pick, and people were already saying how dominant he was going to be in the big league.

There were even some whispers right before the draft that some teams had him going #1.

Nobody ever talked the same way about Reinbacher. The main argument about drafting him that early was "he's a big RHD", which is all kinds of stupid when discussing about a prospective FIFTH OVERALL PICK.

 

[ReHabs]

The issue isn’t Michkov. It is: are we in the right hands? If they got Michkov wrong, what else can they get wrong? What else did they get wrong already?

I’m not sure about them. Until the Habs try to win I feel like it’s all undetermined.

 

[JIMVINNY]

Michkov could be a great player, but labeling him a 50 goal, 100 point player at this point is ridiculous. I see the same people saying "Michkov next Kucherov" saying that Demidov can't be counted on to be a star. If you're going to claim Michkov is going to be a star, you have to acknowledge that the chances of Demidov becoming a star are at least even.

 

[Kennerback]

The issue isn’t Michkov. It is: are we in the right hands? If they got Michkov wrong, what else can they get wrong? What else did they get wrong already?

I’m not sure about them. Until the Habs try to win I feel like it’s all undetermined.

If they really believed Reinbacher was BPA they should all be fired. With hindsight, we know of no other NHL head scout had Reinbacher ahead of Michkov as BPA, yet we had a majority of our scouts with him ahead?
But it looks like they went for need and perhaps had Michkov ND issues.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Until they come out and tell us a good reason for passing on him it's an obvious mistake until proven otherwise.

The excuse of Caufield being small already as if he's some untouchable core piece superstar has got to be the stupidest one I've heard. Michkov is already better than cole lol

 

[Frank Drebin]

The issue isn’t Michkov. It is: are we in the right hands? If they got Michkov wrong, what else can they get wrong? What else did they get wrong already?

I’m not sure about them. Until the Habs try to win I feel like it’s all undetermined.

I'm not 100% sure they got Michkov "wrong". Arizona for example he wasn't even an option. Hard to say they were wrong not picking him when they couldn't even get ahold of him.

I'd certainly like to know the reasons why they passed on him though.

Michkov could be a great player, but labeling him a 50 goal, 100 point player at this point is ridiculous. I see the same people saying "Michkov next Kucherov" saying that Demidov can't be counted on to be a star. If you're going to claim Michkov is going to be a star, you have to acknowledge that the chances of Demidov becoming a star are at least even.

Michkov has 30 games of PPG in the NHL. Not sure how you can say its even. 1 year ago it was even.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Michkov could be a great player, but labeling him a 50 goal, 100 point player at this point is ridiculous. I see the same people saying "Michkov next Kucherov" saying that Demidov can't be counted on to be a star. If you're going to claim Michkov is going to be a star, you have to acknowledge that the chances of Demidov becoming a star are at least even.

How are they even? Michkov has been the better prospect than Demidov their entire lives. This is not even taking into account Michkovs current NHL season lol.

It doesn't mean Demidov won't be good or can't be better

 

[Frank Drebin]

Anyways, its fine guys. Reinbacher is our Cam Barker. Along with Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi.

 

[Kennerback]

I'm not 100% sure they got Michkov "wrong". Arizona for example he wasn't even an option. Hard to say they were wrong not picking him when they couldn't even get ahold of him.

I'd certainly like to know the reasons why they passed on him though.

I’ve seen enough of picks 2 to 4 to say they all f***ed up if their plan was BPA. I suspect some just preferred not drafting a Russian.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm not 100% sure they got Michkov "wrong". Arizona for example he wasn't even an option. Hard to say they were wrong not picking him when they couldn't even get ahold of him.

I'd certainly like to know the reasons why they passed on him though.

They met with Michkov and chose Reinbacher.

My point isn’t to dwell on the decision but rather their overall judgement. So far they’ve helmed a losing team with zero pressure. Slaf happens to be one of the worst 1OAs in modernity, Dach was never great and got worse, Newhook was a terrible choice, etc.

They made good decisions too but on the whole it’s not particularly impressive because we don’t have results to show for it. Maybe one day we will. Michkov would’ve been one TODAY.

When will we know that we are in good hands? I don’t trust them (I don’t distrust them either). It’s just undetermined.

Building off that, I’m super critical this season of stagnating players and bullshit playing tactics and long shifts and lack of discipline and total lack of accountability. I simply don’t like what I see.

 

[Kennerback]

How are they even? Michkov has been the better prospect than Demidov their entire lives. This is not even taking into account Michkovs current NHL season lol.

It doesn't mean Demidov won't be good or can't be better

Disagree. Michkov was one year ahead so got accolades earlier. Most Russian sources I hear believe Demidov is superior. It’s cyclical, you have a Russian star once in a while, and every dozen or so years you have two at the same time. See Ovy and Malkin. It’s like that here, but Demidov is the pick of the litter.

 

[Theodore450]

Plus plus In terms of overall. In terms of attitude and compete I never said he was Crosby level. But speaking of Crosby, Michkov does remind me of him - both with his game and his personality . Crosby was a little b*tch when he was young but he matured as he got older.

Attitude is only part of the equation. Caufield has a great attitude, However id rather the mamba mentality aka guys like MJ/Kobe/etc - all the dogs, the killers, the assholes. Michkov is way closer to guys like that than caufield is. Those types are winners.

Btw Michkov has more ES points than he does PP. And they are both small wingers who lack defence. Big difference is Cole is one dimensional. Great at scoring goals and not much else. Whereas Michkov can do a lot more with and without the puck. His IQ and instinct are out of this world.

As for playoffs we should pump the brakes there. Michkov just joined the league and CC has only had one playoff run when he was a rookie and nobody really knew about him.

Please don’t compare Michkov to CC.
It’s a painful comparison.
1 is a generational player and 1 can score
goals when we pass him the puck sometimes.


Should’ve traded cc for a 1RD and drafted mich

 

[teamfirst]

Michkov could be a great player, but labeling him a 50 goal, 100 point player at this point is ridiculous. I see the same people saying "Michkov next Kucherov" saying that Demidov can't be counted on to be a star. If you're going to claim Michkov is going to be a star, you have to acknowledge that the chances of Demidov becoming a star are at least even.

Agree with you there , what a treat it would've been to have both

 

[Frank Drebin]

I’ve seen enough of picks 2 to 4 to say they all f***ed up if their plan was BPA. I suspect some just preferred not drafting a Russian.

Well
Chicago (1) picked a Russian with the 44th pick (Roman Kantserov, MHL)
Anaheim (2) didn't select any Russians
Columbus (3) picked a russian born BCHLer at 80 (Aydar Suniev)
San Jose (4) selected an MHL player at 203 (Yegor Rimashevskiy)
Montreal (5) selected Bogdan Konyushkov from the khl at 110, and MHL goalie Yevgeni Volokhin at 144
Arizona drafted Simashev at 6 out of the MHL right before Michkov.

So Im not sure there was as much anti russia bias as we'd like to believe. I understand the later round picks have less value and its easier to take a flyer on a russian than it is with a top 5 pick but I'm dying to know what it was about Michkov that made teams pass on him all the way to 7. I refuse to believe it was a contract or nationality issue.

I think it was something dumb like they didn't think his playstyle or personality would translate over to success.

Please don’t compare Michkov to CC.
It’s a painful comparison.
1 is a generational player and 1 can score
goals when we pass him the puck sometimes.


Should’ve traded cc for a 1RD and drafted mich

JFC. I get it. it sucks to miss out on a great young player but if Kucherov isn't generational MM certainly isn't either.

 

[BLONG7]

We will never hear the exact reasons. They made a mistake, it happens.

Did they? Make a mistake? It's a story that we will all be watching unfold, but in reality the story has barely started.
Stay tuned....

 

[HabzSauce]

Just wanted to say hockey isn't basketball
The mamba mentality includes deriding team mates and not sharing secrets to success to avoid having competition for your spot. And demanding to have your weaker link team mates traded. That just doesn't work in hockey where one player can't carry a team.

If anything history has shown those guys don't have the same level of success in hockey. Jeremy roenick, evander Kane, Brett hull, Ryan kesler, Eric lindros, Alexei yashin, etc.

Even hull who was more successful jumped to elite teams as the final piece instead of being a core from the ground up kind of piece.

Chris Pronger is obviously the unlimited success version of that but by all accounts he was a great team mate and only a shithead to other teams.

I won't count goalies because they are actually playing alone on the ice and many big headed goalies have had success.

Michkov is good but he's only slightly better Cole caufield right now. There is not some elite separation between them though obviously michkov is a rookie, albeit 20 already. Cole is still the better player 5v5. Michkov's pp abilities would be a godsend for us but our scouts said nah.

I agree it's a bit different in hockey but that's not what I meant by mamba mentality. Kane, Kessler, roenick etc ain't it

Im talking about their will to win, their competitiveness, mental fortitude, being a gamer, etc. Players that got that Dog in em