Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[mapleleaf979]

I've said for years we needed to get rid of Rielly and we won't win anything with him, especially with him being on the top d pairing. He horrible when it comes to playing defense, horrible when it comes to offense and running a powerplay. Doesn't hit or do anything else when nothing is going for him.

His attitude and mentality is the kind of guy you want and he's a great leader and locker room / team guy, but it's just not enough. NMC or not no player is not going to stay somewhere they are not wanted.

He isnt a great leader at all. What can he say to the room ? Dig in ? He doesnt dig in, He cant talk about "winning matters" because he does nothing to prove that. The way he plays he shouldnt be saying one word to that room.

 

[Ports]

He's clearly been hurt by the Berube system, but he's also not been nearly as bad as some here are pretending

He’s on the ice for way too many goals against because he’s terrible defensively. Rielly is -15 on a defense core that is all pluses. He gets more ozone starts, doesn’t kill penalties and still is a defensive liability. He’s non physical, useless in clearing the net front and his cap hit is a huge drag on building a stronger lineup. He should be in the press box and Benoit playing in his place. At least he hits guys and doesn’t let opponents bang away at loose pucks in front of their net where Riley just sweeps the ice with his stick like he’s curling in The Briar.

That’s on him. What does he do all off season? Go water skiing ? If he wanted to be a better defenseman, he would have made himself into one. All it takes is effort which he doesn’t seem to think is required of him. Soft AND lazy. Bad combo.

 

[Ports]

My heart tells me that Rielly has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of the Toronto board may rule the fate of many

Playing a part for Ill is what they should be a avoiding. Buyout time. 12 years is enough time to learn to play defense in the league. Time to be ruthless in this team wants to win a cup.

 

[Ports]

They haven't won anything in the last 50 years, you realize that?

They won a lot playoff rounds and went to two conference finals in the Gilmour/Clark and Sundin eras. Only one team wins the cup every year but this team with their talent should have one more than one round.

 

[Ports]

He's been one of my favorite players for years, but not this year. A favorite because: he's one of the few who backs his team, he's one of the few who stands up in front of the cameras during the good and bad times, his physical and offensive instincts led him to be the team's most talented offensive weapon from the back end, and he always seemed to be 'gifted' with the journeyman partner, and rarely for any length of time to develop chemistry, save TJ and Hainsy. Throughout, he represented the team in a professional way, politely and with integrity. I saw him as being the captain before Tavares. But, for all that, I never saw him as a truly talented defenseman, and never one that saw the game well. Morgan has always needed a baby sitter partner, someone to bail him out when he made a brain fart play. Couple that with the demands I suspect Berube is asking of him, and you now have a player who is fighting to change from a style of play he's had since he arrived over 10 years ago, to a style his on ice IQ is struggling with because it is foreign to him. The result is what you see; a confused defender trying to think his way through a game, a most difficult thing to do when you've been a reactive defender your entire career.

I'm entirely on board with keeping McCabe and Tanev together, they've been that good so far. But, I think it's obvious that Tre needs to find the defensive stalwart Rielly needs as a partner. Otherwise, we're stuck with an above average offensive defenseman who is struggling to play to his strengths because he's thinking so much about what he's being asked to do defensively. And when you're thinking, you're slow and behind the play. Come on Tre, I'm waiting.

He’s always been a defensive black hole. Under Keefe, under Babcock … As their highest paid defenseman they shouldn’t need to find him a babysitter. The problem is his lack of smarts, laziness and non physical game. Now that his offense has fallen off he’s a huge liability. There are no solutions for a guy that doesn’t have the will to get better. He looks totally disinterested and disengaged. I can think of $7.5M why that’s unacceptable.

 

[Ports]

The options aren't good this off season. Chychrun is the only real upgrade available. Maybe Provorov depending on how you feel about him. The odds Chych becomes a UFA? Signs with Toronto?

Outside of a trade... something like Josi for Rielly + Cowan.... (I think Berger mentioned a Josi for Cowan deal... not that I think he's connected at all)

It's great to have a conversation about improving the team, and I'm all for it... but then look at the options to actually try and do that... it's grim.

For reference... here's the list.

2025 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

Buyout. Saves them $21M on the cap over the next five seasons. Use that money where it’s needed most. They play better without him in the lineup. He’s only going to continue to regress and doesn’t fit in with the team Treliving and Berube want to build for playoff success. Nobody will take him in a trade unless the Leafs eat some of his contact anyway.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

He hasn't been very good, but I also don't believe at the age of 30 he is somehow completely washed, he hasn't had any major injuries or destroyed his hips like Phaneuf over time. If he can step up in the playoffs then I don't particularly care about the regular season.

Players can gradually lose a step and become less effective over time, especially if skating was the main skill they relied on. It doesn't have to be a major injury and it can happen before their 30s.

I'm entirely on board with keeping McCabe and Tanev together, they've been that good so far. But, I think it's obvious that Tre needs to find the defensive stalwart Rielly needs as a partner. Otherwise, we're stuck with an above average offensive defenseman who is struggling to play to his strengths because he's thinking so much about what he's being asked to do defensively. And when you're thinking, you're slow and behind the play. Come on Tre, I'm waiting.

Believe it or not his numbers (5v5 GF%) are best with Timmins out of the partners he's played significant minutes this season (Myers, Tanev and OEL being the others). But I think he would benefit most from a nimbler RHD who can play D but also make a clean breakout pass and judiciously hold the puck in the o-zone (without having to be an offensive dynamo). He's managed with slower partners before but it's a mistake IMO.

 

[Ports]

He isnt a great leader at all. What can he say to the room ? Dig in ? He doesnt dig in, He cant talk about "winning matters" because he does nothing to prove that. The way he plays he shouldnt be saying one word to that room.

Maybe that’s a problem. A perennial loser who has a voice in the room and is clueless on the ice. Can’t imagine watching him from the bench game after game with his useless pinches, wandering around the dzone and soft play around his net.

 

[ToneDog]

Playing a part for Ill is what they should be a avoiding. Buyout time. 12 years is enough time to learn to play defense in the league. Time to be ruthless in this team wants to win a cup.

Leafs management is softer that it's core. They cater to them instead.

 

[1specter]

Players can gradually lose a step and become less effective over time, especially if skating was the main skill they relied on. It doesn't have to be a major injury and it can happen before their 30s.

It is very rare to see players who are of star level to just fall off at 30 without injuries, 30 is still very much athletic prime, especially now when athletes are in better shape and we are more educated on fitness and nutrition to extend the longevity of these athletes. If he came in out of shape (which seems possible), that is a different story, but just 'losing a step' isn't really convincing enough for me. Again he's 30, not 36-37. Plenty of 30+ guys or guys closing in on 30 like Josi, Ekholm, Hedman, Morrissey, McCabe, Slavin, D.Toews, Doughty, Tanev, OEL, Brodin, Orlov, Pesce, Weegar, Theodore, McDonagh, Jensen, Severson and so on have been very effective, many of these guys have also suffered some serious injuries too or play a more rough style compared to Morgan. Also despite Mo's subpar play this year the team is still more often than not generating more offense with him on the ice and moving the puck better.

 

[djdev]

we live in a world with a cap, i have nothing against rielly but he isnt worth the money hes being paid anymore and money is a finite resource in the NHL. i cant(or refuse to) bank on "playoff rielly" to show up and excuse how poor hes been for the vast majority of the past 2+ seasons. hes gotta play to the level hes being paid consistently or hes gotta go.

 

[1specter]

we live in a world with a cap, i have nothing against rielly but he isnt worth the money hes being paid anymore and money is a finite resource in the NHL. i cant(or refuse to) bank on "playoff rielly" to show up and excuse how poor hes been for the vast majority of the past 2+ seasons. hes gotta play to the level hes being paid consistently or hes gotta go.

Rielly scored at a 66 pt pace last season and was +7 on a team that was pretty medicore defensively and had weak goaltending, plus a defensive group completely devoid of offense. He is not that good this year, but let's not stretch the truth to make it seem like he's been bad for multiple seasons now.

 

[djdev]

Rielly scored at a 66 pt pace last season and was +7 on a team that was pretty medicore defensively and had weak goaltending, plus a defensive group completely devoid of offense. He is not that good this year, but let's not stretch the truth to make it seem like he's been bad for multiple seasons now.

agree to disagree. i think hes been pretty poor during the regular season for the past few years. now, thats not entirely on him of course, but i dont think its an unfair statement. the problem with rielly is he doesnt produce enough offensively (esp. given his role on PP1 ) to be a real offensive defenseman, and hes certainly not strong enough in his own end to be considered any type of shut down guy. hes a tweener and and now with this new coach he doesnt get to even do the own thing that hes very good at..use his legs. i actually like rielly..especially as a team guy, but hes not worth that salary imo. this situation reminds me alot of the nurse one in EDM, he has pockets where he plays amazing but the rest of the time hes frustrating.

 

[1specter]

agree to disagree. i think hes been pretty poor during the regular season for the past few years. now, thats not entirely on him of course, but i dont think its an unfair statement. the problem with rielly is he doesnt produce enough offensively (esp. given his role on PP1 ) to be a real offensive defenseman, and hes certainly not strong enough in his own end to be considered any type of shut down guy. hes a tweener and and now with this new coach he doesnt get to even do the own thing that hes very good at..use his legs. i actually like rielly..especially as a team guy, but hes not worth that salary imo. this situation reminds me alot of the nurse one in EDM, he has pockets where he plays amazing but the rest of the time hes frustrating.

Rielly has scored at a 55-60 pt pace going back to 2018 (and touching ~70 a couple of times) while providing about the same defensive value as Nurse, and has an AAV that's almost 2M less. On the open market he probably would've gotten 9+ if he went UFA. His contract is pretty fair especially with the cap going up, and there is nobody else on this D who moves the puck consistently well like he does.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

That seemed to be less about Rielly and more a result of benching Rielly's partner after the 1st period.

Make sure you stretch before doing your gymnastics

 

[djdev]

Rielly has scored at a 55-60 pt pace going back to 2018 (and touching ~70 a couple of times) while providing about the same defensive value as Nurse, and has an AAV that's almost 2M less. On the open market he probably would've gotten 9+ if he went UFA. His contract is pretty fair especially with the cap going up, and there is nobody else on this D who moves the puck consistently well like he does.

ye because hes been put on one of the best PPs in the NHL. And the comparison between him and nurse had nothing to do with them vs each other, it was them vs. their respective salaries. we arent going to agree on morgan clearly so best to stop running around in circles. you think hes worth the money, i dont believe this version of morgan rielly is.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

It is very rare to see players who are of star level to just fall off at 30 without injuries, 30 is still very much athletic prime, especially now when athletes are in better shape and we are more educated on fitness and nutrition to extend the longevity of these athletes. If he came in out of shape (which seems possible), that is a different story, but just 'losing a step' isn't really convincing enough for me. Again he's 30, not 36-37. Plenty of 30+ guys or guys closing in on 30 like Josi, Ekholm, Hedman, Morrissey, McCabe, Slavin, D.Toews, Doughty, Tanev, OEL, Brodin, Orlov, Pesce, Weegar, Theodore, McDonagh, Jensen, Severson and so on have been very effective, many of these guys have also suffered some serious injuries too or play a more rough style compared to Morgan. Also despite Mo's subpar play this year the team is still more often than not generating more offense with him on the ice and moving the puck better.

I don't think it's very rare. You're also listing a bunch of DFD there who aren't Rielly types at all. Just for the sake of it I went back to the 2022-23 season and looked at some of the highest-scoring D. Amongst them are Barrie, Faulk, Gustafsson, Skjei, J Schultz, S Jones, Pionk - all talented defensemen with varying degrees of "star level" who've had questions about their hockey sense and defensive play. All have had dips in their career around or even before age 30. You can argue that some are having a kind of resurgence from injuries - Faulk, Jones and Pionk perhaps - and that could happen to Rielly too, so perhaps I should clarify that whatever kind of malaise it is, it's not necessarily irreversible. But Skjei for example is having an absolutely miserable season after looking pretty good for Carolina. Faulk was 27 when he joined the Blues and had a dreadful season. Krug you could make a similar case for too. There's context around all of these players' career trajectories, yes, and injuries (or gradual wear & tear) play a role, but it's not unheard of.

 

[1specter]

ye because hes been put on one of the best PPs in the NHL. And the comparison between him and nurse had nothing to do with them vs each other, it was them vs. their respective salaries. we arent going to agree on morgan clearly so best to stop running around in circles. you think hes worth the money, i dont believe this version of morgan rielly is.

Last season at 5v5 Rielly ranked #6 amongst D-men in GF/60, behind only Ekholm, Bouchard, Werenski, Hughes, and Hronek. He was also 15th in the league for d-men for 5v5 PTS/60. That is top of the league production no matter how you look at it, if anything the PP sucking is what kept him from producing more.

I don't really care if you disagree with me about Rielly, I just don't like when things are misrepresented without actual facts being used. And I also acknowledged that he has been bad this year, I never said that I'd be happy with this level of performance going forward on this contract, cause obviously that would be a problem. But I also don't believe he will continue to be this bad, perhaps you do, which is fine.

 

[Fogelhund]

Buyout. Saves them $21M on the cap over the next five seasons. Use that money where it’s needed most. They play better without him in the lineup. He’s only going to continue to regress and doesn’t fit in with the team Treliving and Berube want to build for playoff success. Nobody will take him in a trade unless the Leafs eat some of his contact anyway.

Ridiculous.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

He’s always been a defensive black hole. Under Keefe, under Babcock … As their highest paid defenseman they shouldn’t need to find him a babysitter. The problem is his lack of smarts, laziness and non physical game. Now that his offense has fallen off he’s a huge liability. There are no solutions for a guy that doesn’t have the will to get better. He looks totally disinterested and disengaged. I can think of $7.5M why that’s unacceptable.

Unquestionably all true, but in fact, this season he's been even worse. Looking at a few stats this season compared to his own stats in the core 4 era:

hits/game 0.4 (lowest in 8 years)
takeaways/giveaways 0.16 (lowest in 8 years)
+/- -14 (worst in 8 years, his previous worst was a -9 two years ago)

Indefensible that he has been terrible not just offensively, but defensively.

 

[Fogelhund]

Unquestionably all true, but in fact, this season he's been even worse. Looking at a few stats this season compared to his own stats in the core 4 era:

hits/game 0.4 (lowest in 8 years)
takeaways/giveaways 0.16 (lowest in 8 years)
+/- -14 (worst in 8 years, his previous worst was a -9 two years ago)

Indefensible that he has been terrible not just offensively, but defensively.

He's minus 2 5v5... Think about that.

The rest is with the goalie pulled, and on the PP... I mean the PP is problematic, but that's certainly not all on him.

This +- is overblown.

 

[1specter]

I don't think it's very rare. You're also listing a bunch of DFD there who aren't Rielly types at all. Just for the sake of it I went back to the 2022-23 season and looked at some of the highest-scoring D. Amongst them are Barrie, Faulk, Gustafsson, Skjei, J Schultz, S Jones, Pionk - all talented defensemen with varying degrees of "star level" who've had questions about their hockey sense and defensive play. All have had dips in their career around or even before age 30. You can argue that some are having a kind of resurgence from injuries - Faulk, Jones and Pionk perhaps - and that could happen to Rielly too, so perhaps I should clarify that whatever kind of malaise it is, it's not necessarily irreversible. But Skjei for example is having an absolutely miserable season after looking pretty good for Carolina. Faulk was 27 when he joined the Blues and had a dreadful season. Krug you could make a similar case for too. There's context around all of these players' career trajectories, yes, and injuries (or gradual wear & tear) play a role, but it's not unheard of.

To be clear, I do believe Rielly's peak has passed, and you are also right that 'dips' certainly happen 30 and onwards. However, while he may never have a 70 pt season ever again, I doubt he'd just drop from pacing between 55-65 pts to all of a sudden becoming a sub 40 pt d-man.

I also think that aside from maybe Skjei, Rielly has overall been a higher calibre player and d-man than all those guys you mentioned over their careers. Rielly is the only one you can truly argue as a top pairing D in his prime. Also besides Skjei and maybe Jones, most of those guys have been used in very specific, sheltered situations whereas Rielly has historically been matched up against top players and still produced in those circumstances.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Buyout. Saves them $21M on the cap over the next five seasons. Use that money where it’s needed most. They play better without him in the lineup. He’s only going to continue to regress and doesn’t fit in with the team Treliving and Berube want to build for playoff success. Nobody will take him in a trade unless the Leafs eat some of his contact anyway.

Ridiculous.

Buyout is not the answer. How about holding a veteran accountable and putting him in a position where he'll be more likely to succeed?
Giving him a better partner in McCabe is a start.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

He's minus 2 5v5... Think about that.

The rest is with the goalie pulled, and on the PP... I mean the PP is problematic, but that's certainly not all on him.

This +- is overblown.

Considering his boneheaded mistakes on empty net goals and shorthanded goals against, it doesn't surprise me he's got the highest minus of any other players on the ice at those times. I agree that +/- isn't a tell-all stat on a players' defensive acumen, but in Rielly's case, it is a reflection of what a shitty defender he is. But hey, you're entitled to think he's having a decent season defensively, just be aware that is a minority opinion from not just HF board members, but the hockey community.

 

[Dekes For Days]

ye because hes been put on one of the best PPs in the NHL.

He's 5th in the league in 5v5 points since 2018.