Speculation: Morgan Rielly discussion - Time to Trade Rielly?

[SprDaVE]

many of our players do suck , that's why they signed for peanuts as ufa's

Holl and Muzzin have looked like shit and if they don't pick it up we'll just trade them for picks because um ah the rest of the league's GM's are looking to do us a favor , lol . How realistic does that sound ?

No no you're right. All our players are junk and nobody has value and no team wants to trade with us. The NHL teams would never trade for a player that plays for the Leafs ever because they suck. You right my guy. Who the hell would want Kerfoot for 1 year? They wouldn't even want him if for free! LOL He's like Scott Gomez, who the hell wanted that guy? No one lol I don't know how teams just make trades every year for great players while all we have are crappy players lol... sheesh...

Man... I guess we really can only just trade Matthews at this point. What is even the point... I mean, he sucks too but... Im sure we can get a pick for him.

 

[SprDaVE]

Multiple times in the past I've pointed out that the entire point of assembling your NHL team is to win the Stanley Cup not to maximize asset management. So every time the Leafs have been playoff locks I've argued to add not subtract talent regardless of the contract status of its players. Well, this time is different: this group isn't a playoff lock and I have zero faith that this group has what it takes to win 4 consecutive playoff series. And this will still apply if this team somehow manages to get stuff together and gets on a 100 point pace.

So, yes, now is the time to start shopping Rielly. It'll be a regression but this team isn't a serious Cup contender.

Value in November? Rielly with 50% retained is easily an unprotected 1st, a 1st if re-signed (otherwise a 2nd), a top prospect and an NHL level defenseman.

100% agree. The lack of reports about an extension or trade plan for Rielly is making me nervous.

 

[hotpaws]

No no you're right. All our players are junk and nobody has value and no team wants to trade with us. The NHL teams would never trade for a player that plays for the Leafs ever because they suck. You right my guy. Who the hell would want Kerfoot for 1 year? They wouldn't even want him if for free! LOL He's like Scott Gomez, who the hell wanted that guy? No one lol

we have players of value and we have players with little value , no value and negative value

all i'm seeing from you is trying to dump players who aren't playing well with fair sized cap hits and acting like the rest of the league will be lining to give us assets and absorb there entire salary

 

[ITM]

100% agree. The lack of reports about an extension or trade plan for Rielly is making me nervous.

And as in so many things, if it were a LL led office, we'd feel secure in the silence.

 

[SprDaVE]

we have players of value and we have players with little value , no value and negative value

all i'm seeing from you is trying to dump players who aren't playing well with fair sized cap hits and acting like the rest of the league will be lining to give us assets and absorb there entire salary

The Golden Knights traded for 5M cap hit player Evgeny Dadonov with 2 years left on his contract who only had 20 points in 55 games last season from the Ottawa Senators. This is after only playing 1 season with the Sens. They gave up a 3rd round pick and 1.7M cap hit bottom pairing defenseman for him. This cleared 3.3M for the Sens, who could have buried Holden to the minors for a bigger cap saving. This is just one example from the last 6 months.

Why can the Senators dump a struggling player signed to what we all consider a bad contract. If the Leafs had that contract right now, we'd be crying to baby Jesus about it. But the Leafs can't possibly shed a simple 1 year contract without having to cut their own arm off? There are many more of these bad players on "bad" contracts getting traded but the Leafs are the only team that can't trade any of them for anything... l o l

Teams like these players for different reasons. 1 year of Kerfoot at a 3.5M cap hit would be enticing for many teams for his skillset. There is zero commitment, his price range is fair and he's at the very least an average player no matter how much you hate every player on this team. You can't just sign this kind of player without giving up more term. Teams trade for these players all the time... I don't understand why you can't see that.

This is getting off-topic anyway, but teams make these trades all the time. A lot of them are not very good players. The end.

 

[hotpaws]

The Golden Knights traded for 5M cap hit player Evgeny Dadonov with 2 years left on his contract who only had 20 points in 55 games last season from the Ottawa Senators. This is after only playing 1 year with the Sens. They gave up a 3rd round pick and 1.7M cap hit bottom pairing defenseman for him. This cleared 3.3M for the Sens, who could have buried Holden to the minors for a bigger cap saving. This is just one example from the last 6 months. There are many more of these bad players on "bad" contracts getting traded but the Leafs are the only team that can't trade any of them for anything... l o l

So tell me this. Why can the Senators dump a struggling player signed to what we all consider a bad contract. If the Leafs had that contract right now, we'd be crying to baby Jesus about it. But the Leafs can't possibly shed a simple 1 year contract without having to cut their own arm off?

Teams like these players for different reasons. 1 year of Kerfoot at a 3.5M cap hit would be enticing for many teams for his skillset. There is zero commitment, his price range is fair and he's at the very least an average player no matter how much you hate every player on this team. You can't just sign this kind of player without giving up more term. Teams trade for these players all the time... I don't understand why you can't see that.

This is getting off-topic anyway, but teams make these trades all the time. A lot of them are not very good players. The end.

taking a look at Dandanov's previous seasons it's obvious Vegas thought he'd bounce back on a better team and as you said they also sent cap back

the problem with Kerfoot isn't that he's a horrible player but that you can get similar players for cheaper as ufa's

and enough how i hate every player , , go through my posts if you like and see if i've shit on Rielly/AM/Willie/MM/Brodie

the problem here is you don't want to give up our good players but want to dump our poor and aging players and act like they have value

 

[Sypher04]

no one's taking Kerfoot just like no one wanted him the last 2 off seasons we're tried to trade him and if Muzzin doesn't pick it up people will laugh at us if we tried to shop him

the leafs went out of their way to trade for a player specifically to protect themselves from losing Kerfoot in expansion. He was never on the block as you just suggested. Kerfoot is easily worth a pick now, and in the off-season after his final bonus is paid out he becomes downright attractive to a budget conscious team

 

[DarkKnight]

You simply have to trade Morgan, unless you feel this a legit cup contender, which it clearly isn’t. Retool now, we don’t have to tear it down but you’ve got to free cap space and get some picks to turn into players.

 

[hotpaws]

the leafs went out of their way to trade for a player specifically to protect themselves from losing Kerfoot in expansion. He was never on the block as you just suggested. Kerfoot is easily worth a pick now, and in the off-season after his final bonus is paid out he becomes downright attractive to a budget conscious team

i'm only repeating what the insiders said the last 2 off seasons and if he's so f***ing valuable at his cap hit why is he at the top of everyone's list of players to move to open up cap ?

 

[Apex Predator]

The problem is other teams are right up against the cap or have their own players to resign. Whether you think certain players have value or not that’s your opinion.

I look around the league and see teams that probably can find better options cheaper than taking on Kerfoot as an example. Muzzin I’ll wait to see how the season plays out.

if we are trading Muzzin to create cap space to sign Rielly we have to replace Muzzin and hate to break it but we don’t have anyone in the system right now that can step into top 4. Maybe Sandin could but that’s a wait and see how the season plays along. Right now he can’t play in the top 4.

some of us are over valuing our players while others are under valuing. We have to replace any player we trade just to stay competitive. Writing is on the wall that we need trade a core 4 or we lose Rielly and struggle to replace him. I don’t see a way we get better keeping the core 4 and resigning or replacing Rielly.

with all that said I hope I’m proven wrong.

 

[hotpaws]

You simply have to trade Morgan, unless you feel this a legit cup contender, which it clearly isn’t. Retool now, we don’t have to tear it down but you’ve got free up cap space and get some picks to turn into players.

contender or not Rielly should not be allowed to walk as a ufa , either we sign or trade him anything else is unacceptable

 

[SprDaVE]

taking a look at Dandanov's previous seasons it's obvious Vegas thought he'd bounce back on a better team and as you said they also sent cap back

Exactly. Teams trade for bad contract and bad players all the time. You literally made my point. And the Sens cleared 3.3M in cap space... weird how that works... uh... Teams can do that???? The Sens didn't have to trade a great player to shed cap space... hold on...

I don't want to trade the bad players. I think Kerfoot is solid. I think Muzzin is good despite a bad start. Marner is a great player. I'd trade them for the right value back. Of course I don't want to trade the good to great players... teams don't want to trade their top producing players for a reason, especially not the ones locked up long-term. How hard is this to comprehend? It blows my mind right now I have to explain this.

The problem is that you think teams don't want our "bad" players when they probably do, because they aren't perceived as bad players. Teams trade for players because they think they can contribute. Teams trade for "bad" players all the time for the reasons you listed about Dadonov. There are countless reasons why a team would want a Kerfoot or a Holl or a Muzzin or a Marner or a Mrazek or Phaneuf or Gomez or Johnson or Gudbranson or Rielly or Lindholm or Duncan Keith.

There aren't 50 Kerfoots in free agency every season. You can probably find a good Kerfoot level player for cheaper or for free, but there are 31 other teams. Kerfoot only has 1 year and it's all bonus. Tell me again how nobody would give up at the very least a 7th round pick for Kerfoot.

 

[Apex Predator]

i'm only repeating what the insiders said the last 2 off seasons and if he's so f***ing valuable at his cap hit why is he at the top of everyone's list of players to move to open up cap ?

I don’t mind him on the third line but the problem is we are so up against the cap that a player making 3 or more has to go just to be able to juggle our cap space.

 

[Sypher04]

i'm only repeating what the insiders said the last 2 off seasons and if he's so f***ing valuable at his cap hit why is he at the top of everyone's list of players to move to open up cap ?

critical thinking would tell you it’s because he’s the only forward outside the big 4 that has been making enough cap to make a difference if moved

and people really should take what insiders say with more of a grain of salt. This summer couldn’t have made managements position on Kerfoot any more clear. They want him on this team

 

[Superstar]

You simply have to trade Morgan, unless you feel this a legit cup contender, which it clearly isn’t. Retool now, we don’t have to tear it down but you’ve got free up cap space and get some picks to turn into players.

Yup, Rielly is not coming back...he's too expensive...Dubas will be squandering assets like Hyman if we lose Rielly for nothing.

 

[DarkKnight]

Yup, Rielly is not coming back...he's too expensive...Dubas will be squandering assets like Hyman if we lose Rielly for nothing.

Trouble is we have a GM who no longer is thinking long term, he’s on the clock and will make short term decisions. Trading Reilly is tantamount to an admission of failure, hopefully he has the stones.

 

[Apex Predator]

Trouble is we have a GM who no pager is thinking long term, he’s on the clock and will make short term decisions. Trading Reilly is tantamount to an admission of failure, hopefully he has the stones.

that’s what scares me. He might trade the remaining of our draft picks or prospects in an attempt to save his job. I would if I were him.

 

[hotpaws]

Exactly. Teams trade for bad contract and bad players all the time. You literally made my point. And the Sens cleared 3.3M in cap space... weird how that works... uh... Teams can do that???? The Sens didn't have to trade a great player to shed cap space... hold on...

I don't want to trade the bad players. I think Kerfoot is solid. I think Muzzin is good despite a bad start. Marner is a great player. I'd trade them for the right value back. Of course I don't want to trade the good to great players... teams don't want to trade their top producing players for a reason, especially not the ones locked up long-term. How hard is this to comprehend? It blows my mind right now I have to explain this.

The problem is that you think teams don't want our "bad" players when they probably do, because they aren't perceived as bad players. Teams trade for players because they think they can contribute. Teams trade for "bad" players all the time for the reasons you listed about Dadonov. There are countless reasons why a team would want a Kerfoot or a Holl or a Muzzin or a Marner or a Mrazek or Phaneuf or Gomez or Johnson or Gudbranson or Rielly or Lindholm or Duncan Keith.

There aren't 50 Kerfoots in free agency every season. You can probably find a good Kerfoot level player for cheaper or for free, but there are 31 other teams. Kerfoot only has 1 year and it's all bonus. Tell me again how nobody would give up at the very least a 7th round pick for Kerfoot.

stop spinning , Vegas traded for Dandanov because he had previously been a 60/70 pt player and they believed he'd bounce back , they didn't think he was a bad player

and now we're down to a 7th for Kerfoot , lol

but hey you're right , teams will be lining up for all guys we want to dump and then we'll just go out and acquire better cheaper players to replace them

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Should have traded him in the off-season, didn't have the guts. Now the performance on the ice is going to force the GM to do. And probably get worse value, f***ing awful management.

 

[AvroArrow]

Rielly is getting 7M+ after this. If we trade him, we get some assets but forget any chance of having a playoff run. The asset mismanagement by Dubas is insanely bad, worst I've ever seen.

 

[DarkKnight]

that’s what scares me. He might trade the remaining of our draft picks or prospects in an attempt to save his job. I would if I were him.

Self interest vs organization interest. It’s a fair concern now.

 

[SprDaVE]

stop spinning , Vegas traded for Dandanov because he had previously been a 60/70 pt player and they believed he'd bounce back , they didn't think he was a bad player

and now we're down to a 7th for Kerfoot , lol

but hey you're right , teams will be lining up for all guys we want to dump and then we'll just go out and acquire better cheaper players to replace them

Spinning? Kerfoot is a 40 point player making 3.5M cap hit for 1 year (majority of it in bonus I might add) and you're talking like he's a 5M or even 7M player signed for 3 years. You can't even admit that Kerfoot is at the very least worth a late round pick to clear a bit of cap space so that the Leafs can re-sign Rielly and Campbell and fill out depth... which was the original point of this conversation. The irony of the spinning statement, my guy.

The whole point of this conversation is that the Leafs can find a way to open up cap space regardless of your perception of how every player sucks on this team. If there's a way, they will find the way to do it. They've done it before, they will do it again. If Dadonov was a Toronto Maple Leaf last season, I can guarantee you that Hotpaws would say he had zero value and he sucked and nobody wants him and we're stuck with him and the world is ending... but yeah, I'm the one spinning and how "it must be because he was good in previous years...", and I'm not even going to touch the "You can find a Kerfoot easily in free agency, thus he's worthless" when you can say that about Dadonov or any player of their ilks that get traded all the time...

 

[Buds17]

He might not be a #1 D. He is this team's #1 D. The team can't trade him if the idea is to compete for the rest of this season. Tricky situation unfortunately with the top D and likely 1A goalie currently slated for free agency.

 

[hotpaws]

critical thinking would tell you it’s because he’s the only forward outside the big 4 that has been making enough cap to make a difference if moved

and people really should take what insiders say with more of a grain of salt. This summer couldn’t have made managements position on Kerfoot any more clear. They want him on this team

critical thinking would tell me if he was so valuable at 3.5m per no one would want to trade him

and i have no idea what mgmt was thinking this summer to be honest but McCann would look a lot better than Kerfoot and Holl have in a leaf uniform

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I love Rielly...he's my favourite Leaf...I think he is quite easily the Leafs' best defenceman and the team would be even more screwed without him.

However, he's playing like a shell of his former self right now. He can't QB the PP. His shot is a muffin (at least Kaberle had a seeing-eye wrister). He has never nor will ever develop an overly physical game. He is what he is at this point.

Then again, seeing a guy like Jones last night who has always been highly touted but too has regressed, I don't think Rielly is on an island here. We just see him more than all the other players out there.