Value of: Morgan Frost to the Leafs.

[FerrisRox]

If you are adding Frost he's the 3rd line center, unless you can get a Granlund or a Nelson but even if you can't a healthy top 9 of.

Knies Matthews Marner

McMann Tavares Nylander

Domi Frost Patches

looks pretty damn good to me.

I have a hard time believing you think a third line of Domi/Frost/Paccioretty is "pretty damn good" for a team that I assume you think has Stanley Cup aspirations.

They should be aiming a lot higher than that.

 

[TheDoldrums]

It's a typical Leafs proposal - We want your talent but we don't want to give up anything of value - fantasy world they live in.

Frost would cost Knies.

Flyers fans: it would cost a 2nd or 3rd

you: actually pretty sure it would cost your younger top line power forward

The Leafs wouldn't trade Knies for a 1st+, he's too important. Wonder who is living in the fantasy world!

 

[SnS]

Flyers fans: it would cost a 2nd or 3rd

you: actually pretty sure it would cost your younger top line power forward

The Leafs wouldn't trade Knies for a 1st+, he's too important. Wonder who is living in the fantasy world!

I wouldn’t trade Frost for a second or third. And I’m a flyers fan.

 

[SnS]

I agree with everything you said but it doesn't look like Torts is going to do that.

Torts needs to go.

 

[SnS]

I'm not sure what you've been watching if you think Torts has been trying to turn him into some sort of grinder. Torts made Frost the top-line C with Konecny and Michkov to start the year and fed him regular PP1 time. Over 70% of his starts have been in the O-zone. The problem is Frost isn't scoring, is turning the puck over constantly, and has no defensive ability that justifies a spot in the lineup if he isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing, which is scoring and making plays.

The many differing opinions of Frost.

 

[The90]

The notion of John Tortorella wanting a guy like Nick Robertson on his team is hilarious.

He’d be working for ESPN by the end of the year.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I wouldn’t trade Frost for a second or third. And I’m a flyers fan.

well you seem outnumbered. I know 0% of Leafs fans would consider trading Knies

 

[Evergreen]

The many differing opinions of Frost.

I’m not expressing any opinion on Frost. I’m correcting your mischaracterization of what has happened so far this year.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

It's a typical Leafs proposal - We want your talent but we don't want to give up anything of value - fantasy world they live in.

Frost would cost Knies.

Knies? That’s laughable.

Frost’s value is probably around a 2nd rounder. Not a top line 22 year old power winger.

 

[SnS]

I’m not expressing any opinion on Frost. I’m correcting your mischaracterization of what has happened so far this year.

I don’t agree with your statement regarding the matter.

 

[SnS]

well you seem outnumbered. I know 0% of Leafs fans would consider trading Knies

I didn’t suggest that either.

 

[FlyguyOX]

SnS and the flyers board have always had a much more favorable view of Frost and unfavorable view of Torts than a lot of us other fans. How many coaches and linemates can one player have before it's no longer the fault of the coach and linemates? Frost needs to go for whatever we can get at this point.

He can't be a top 6, PP1 player on a good team. He needs more skilled teammates than in a bottom 6. He can't PK. He doesn't have a role on a good team.

I'm not sure what you've been watching if you think Torts has been trying to turn him into some sort of grinder. Torts made Frost the top-line C with Konecny and Michkov to start the year and fed him regular PP1 time. Over 70% of his starts have been in the O-zone. The problem is Frost isn't scoring, is turning the puck over constantly, and has no defensive ability that justifies a spot in the lineup if he isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing, which is scoring and making plays.

Bingo Bongo

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I really hate John Tortorella

 

[zizbuka]

If the Flyers were smart, they'd put Frost back with Michkov and see if he gets going. Then maybe look for a trade for better value.

But the Flyers are the Flyers, so they scratch and badmouth him to lower his trade value. This team deserves to suffer.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Knies? That’s laughable.

Frost’s value is probably around a 2nd rounder. Not a top line 22 year old power winger.

A 25yr old that has put up back to back 40+ seasons and is capable of better is worth a 2nd rounder? Lol. The fact that he's suffering from Tortaritis isn't his fault for much of this season.

"We want a player that will likely be our 2c and is a speedy player that has solid 2-way ability and is a good playmaker, but we want to absolutely devalue him on a message board for...reasons."

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Flyers fans: it would cost a 2nd or 3rd

you: actually pretty sure it would cost your younger top line power forward

The Leafs wouldn't trade Knies for a 1st+, he's too important. Wonder who is living in the fantasy world!

Oh word? Below quote must be weird then.

I wouldn’t trade Frost for a second or third. And I’m a flyers fan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You mocked Leaf fans for wanting to trade Robertson for Frost and then turn around and say it would cost Knies. If you don’t see you are doing the exact same thing lol Knies is better and younger then Frost.

3yrs younger isn't that much of an age gap when it comes to need. Frost is a natural center, it's not a secret how much the Leafs need and want a C that can play in the top 9 and especially slot into the top 6. You don't take less when you are in the position of strength in a negotiation.

So Robertson is a crap proposal, I said Knies because the value of Frost to the Leafs and the player he is, would be something like that. A former 1st that was trending in the right way before being Tortorella'd isn't crap value when other GM's know the value and they can try to buy low on him because of his start, but Briere would be laughed out of Philly for trading Frost for something like Robertson, not unless a guaranteed 1st is coming with him. Also Chicago being interested, they'd probably give up a better value for Frost and out of the conference, so if the Hawks are serious, I don't see Toronto landing him at all.

It's wild that Briere is sticking to Torts right now when Montgomery is available, Torts is an epic dipshit, he's ruining players just so he can have his way with how he wants them to play and "React" to his idiotic methods to send a message or whatever that moron thinks he's doing as a coach with his dumb old school methods. I mean as a Pens fan, kind of fun to see it go down that way, but for the sport, to see prospects and players get ruined by an idiot like him is bad for the game.

And btw - I am a fan of neither team, as a Pens fan, I despise both teams equally at this stage, as well as the Hawks.

 

[ponder719]

Briere would be laughed out of Philly for trading Frost for something like Robertson,

You promise? That might be the most valuable thing we could get back.

 

[seanlinden]

3yrs younger isn't that much of an age gap when it comes to need. Frost is a natural center, it's not a secret how much the Leafs need and want a C that can play in the top 9 and especially slot into the top 6. You don't take less when you are in the position of strength in a negotiation.

So Robertson is a crap proposal, I said Knies because the value of Frost to the Leafs and the player he is, would be something like that. A former 1st that was trending in the right way before being Tortorella'd isn't crap value when other GM's know the value and they can try to buy low on him because of his start, but Briere would be laughed out of Philly for trading Frost for something like Robertson, not unless a guaranteed 1st is coming with him. Also Chicago being interested, they'd probably give up a better value for Frost and out of the conference, so if the Hawks are serious, I don't see Toronto landing him at all.

It's wild that Briere is sticking to Torts right now when Montgomery is available, Torts is an epic dipshit, he's ruining players just so he can have his way with how he wants them to play and "React" to his idiotic methods to send a message or whatever that moron thinks he's doing as a coach with his dumb old school methods. I mean as a Pens fan, kind of fun to see it go down that way, but for the sport, to see prospects and players get ruined by an idiot like him is bad for the game.

And btw - I am a fan of neither team, as a Pens fan, I despise both teams equally at this stage, as well as the Hawks.

Here's the challenge with Frost...while he is a natural centre (which are generally more valuable than wingers), he's also somewhat stuck in "no man's land".

Yes, he has 2 seasons with 40+ points under his belt, but he's also got 245 games NHL experience, and is has not shown the ability to take that "next step" despite ample opportunity on a Philadelphia team that is very thin up the middle.

Let's also not forget, 40 points isn't quite what it used to be given the increase in league-wide production. Amongst centres last year, Frost ranked 74th in the league... and he's not really "gritty" enough to be a prototypical 3rd line centre.

If Frost cannot take that next step and figure out how to put up ~60 points, he's potentially not all that useful to a good team.

Knies on the other hand, recently played his 100th NHL game. He's a solid 2-way player and obviously plays a power forward's game. The list of teams that wouldn't love to have him as a 2nd or 3rd line option on their wing is probably pretty short.

Ultimately, I think you have to look at Frost's trade value in a similar context to Timothy Liljegren. 25 year old players (Liljegren 2 weeks older) that have shown a bunch of promise at the NHL level, but unable to put it together and take that next step to where they cement themselves towards the top of the lineup, and they don't really play the right "kind" of game for a bottom of the lineup position.

The challenge of course in trading a player like that, most of the interested teams are going to be ones that look at him as "lets take a shot and see what happens", and they tend to be stingy when it comes to moving draft picks / prospects because they are rebuilding.

EDIT: FWIW, this isn't me saying Robertson for Frost... I know that makes absolutely no sense. This is me saying Liljegren for Frost would have been a theoretically interesting deal.

Given that is obviously past, and that the Leafs have a very crowded roster up front and the Flyers don't actually need to downsize the roster like the Leafs did with Liljegren.. maybe something like the 3rd Toronto got, plus one of Holmberg, Kampf or Dewar.

 

[SnS]

Here's the challenge with Frost...while he is a natural centre (which are generally more valuable than wingers), he's also somewhat stuck in "no man's land".

Yes, he has 2 seasons with 40+ points under his belt, but he's also got 245 games NHL experience, and is has not shown the ability to take that "next step" despite ample opportunity on a Philadelphia team that is very thin up the middle.

Let's also not forget, 40 points isn't quite what it used to be given the increase in league-wide production. Amongst centres last year, Frost ranked 74th in the league... and he's not really "gritty" enough to be a prototypical 3rd line centre.

If Frost cannot take that next step and figure out how to put up ~60 points, he's potentially not all that useful to a good team.

Knies on the other hand, recently played his 100th NHL game. He's a solid 2-way player and obviously plays a power forward's game. The list of teams that wouldn't love to have him as a 2nd or 3rd line option on their wing is probably pretty short.

Ultimately, I think you have to look at Frost's trade value in a similar context to Timothy Liljegren. 25 year old players (Liljegren 2 weeks older) that have shown a bunch of promise at the NHL level, but unable to put it together and take that next step to where they cement themselves towards the top of the lineup, and they don't really play the right "kind" of game for a bottom of the lineup position.

The challenge of course in trading a player like that, most of the interested teams are going to be ones that look at him as "lets take a shot and see what happens", and they tend to be stingy when it comes to moving draft picks / prospects because they are rebuilding.

EDIT: FWIW, this isn't me saying Robertson for Frost... I know that makes absolutely no sense. This is me saying Liljegren for Frost would have been a theoretically interesting deal.

Given that is obviously past, and that the Leafs have a very crowded roster up front and the Flyers don't actually need to downsize the roster like the Leafs did with Liljegren.. maybe something like the 3rd Toronto got, plus one of Holmberg, Kampf or Dewar.

That makes no sense for the Flyers.

 

[Pantokrator]

It shouldn't be, but the Flyers are very poorly managed, and they hold grudges against their own personnel like no other team in hockey.

I'd want more, but I fully expect to be badly disappointed when we do inevitably let him go for a song.

I completely agree. Leafs could probably just do a cap dump or future considerations. Tortorella only cares about trying to win now (I can't really blame him) when the team is not at all competitive. The smart move would be playing Frost (this team has no center depth at all, and Torts refuses to play Frost), but why should Torts do something like that? Better to let Frost not play and lose value. Brilliant management of assets. This is the Flyers way.

This is the same team who gave up Gostisbehere PLUS a 2nd round pick just to dump him, who was then able to garner a third round pick from the Canes at the deadline. Granted, that was under Fletcher, but that is the stupid way I expect from the Flyers.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd do Robertson for Frost...it's basically a test drive for both teams...both players RFA at the end of the season and can simply not be qualified if it doesn't work.

We saw Fabbro given away on waivers and working out okay in Columbus

Sometimes players just need a fresh start.

 

[SnS]

I'd do Robertson for Frost...it's basically a test drive for both teams...both players RFA at the end of the season and can simply not be qualified if it doesn't work.

We saw Fabbro given away on waivers and working out okay in Columbus

Sometimes players just need a fresh start.

Easy pass.

 

[banks]

I like Robertson. I think he'll end up as a 20 goal scorer somewhere. But it's getting obvious that he can't keep a roster spot in Toronto.

The Leafs have like 6 injured forwards, and Robertson isn't making himself stand out. It's probably time to move on. And I'd be willing to add a pick to land Frost.