More MVP Worthy Player: Mackinnon, Kuch or Drai?

[DemidovSaveUs]

Kucherov

 

[NVious]

Kucherov was the MVP last year and he is the MVP this year. He is currently the best hockey player on the planet. Who knows how much longer that will be the case, but it is the truth right now.

Hellebuyck had a great season and likely deserves the Vezina, but much of his success comes from having a very good defensive team in front of him. GAA is primarily a team stat and it is no surprise that the two best defensive teams have the two goalies with the best GAA in the league by a wide margin. When you look at more of an individual goalie stat like s%, the gap between Hellebuyck and the field is basically non-existent.

Kucherov is clearing the field in P/GP and continued to produce despite losing Stamkos, something that many thought would negatively impact Kucherov much, much more than it did. He is unquestionably the most valuable player to his team as the margin between him and the 2nd best forward in the league is larger than the margin between Hellebuyck and even the 5th best goalie in the league.

One final really sad thought: as great as Kucherov has been this season, he is nowhere near what he was last season. The fact that he got snubbed for the MVP last year despite being the highest scoring winger of all time, being the first winger ever to record 100 assists in a season, and factoring into 50% (read: FIFTY!!) of his team's scoring is one of the most baffling things I have ever seen in sports.

Kucherov is playing with 2 HOF locks (Hedman/Vassy), 2 borderline HOF guys already (Point/Guentzel) and 2 other guys who made team Canada, but Helle's behind some mega Godly team lmao.

 

[landy]

No specific examples, if you want to watch previous games be my guest. McDavid assisting on his goals, or the other way around doesn't seem to affect Hart voting. If it did, then all of Mackinnons points that Makar helps with are put into question too. Or McDavid winning the Hart when Drai put up 128 points. Or Drai winning the Hart while McDavid played 64 games.

But Hart voting isn't that complex. The voters look at what makes a good storyline or roll with that. This year Hart will probably go to Hellebyuck and his crazy season. 1st in all major goalie categories. Voters eat that up.

MacKinnon/Makar is the closest comparable and im with you this year, but last year wasnt close. Even Draisaitl's 19-20 covid Hart, he barely won. MacKinnon had 17 less points and nearly took it from him. That is how powerful the 2nd-5th place voting was who didnt give Drais anything or top voting because of...ding ding ding McDavid.

Saying go watch games makes for a pathetic debate and I respect not having the time nor energy to want to research deeper, but I enjoy dissecting stats. Watching games I can point to a highlight goal or a pathetic backcheck for all these guys.

Eichel gets my vote this year if a forward should win, but since the forward crop is pretty watered down with no one running away with it, then Helle.

 

[tfwnogf]

I enjoy dissecting stats.

That's nice and all but stats don't tell the full picture. If you don't want to watch the games that's fine, but don't expect anyone to care about your opinion. You don't have to care about mine, but I can tell you that those who have watched the games agree with me that Draisaitl had a much MUCH better year than McDavid, who hasn't looked himself at all until very recently.

 

[Regal]

On the radio they said if Kuch doesn't win the Hart it'll be the first time a b2b Art Ross winner doesn't win it in either year since Jagr in 2001.

McDavid is the only other b2b Art Ross winner (‘17-‘18) and (‘21, ‘22, ‘23) since Jagr so it’s not a large sample size

 

[Gerulaitis]

I'll be unpopular and say:

The Hart candidates should be Hellebuyck, Makar, and Ovechkin

 

[Regal]

Winning back to back Rosses shouldn't go unnoticed

What a player did the year before really shouldn’t affect voting for this year. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a bias toward him as a makeup for last year. If funny though, if he had his year last year in this season, he’d be running away with it

 

[Regal]

The idea that how close you are to 1 teammate affects how valuable you are and not how you compare to the entire roster of 20+ players continues to be one of the worst arguments on this site

 

[landy]

That's nice and all but stats don't tell the full picture. If you don't want to watch the games that's fine, but don't expect anyone to care about your opinion. You don't have to care about mine, but I can tell you that those who have watched the games agree with me that Draisaitl had a much MUCH better year than McDavid, who hasn't looked himself at all until very recently.

I watch the games...but I cant say Jan 15th in the 2nd period against the Leafs, Draisiatil back-checked, broke up a play, took the puck, went down and scored, while McDavid wasnt on the ice so he deserves the Hart and has been better than McDavid. I can see that he is with McDavid 50% of his total ice time and receives weaker matchups when apart.

It makes for no discussion here at all...

Im guessing you're an Oilers fan and maybe have watched every game so far, but I obviously can safely assume you didnt watch every Knights, Lightning, Jets, nor Avalanche game for comparison...which is where stats, highlights, compressed games, etc come in.

So you're just going to ignore the fact McDavid is producing at a higher ES clip this season than 22-23; when he put up 153 points, but "hasnt looked himself". LOL. Or maybe, just maybe the difference in 275 vs 207 pp opportunities has a drastic effect on his point totals, which now shows that he is on par with the other big boys in the league without them.

See stats...

 

[tfwnogf]

So you're just going to ignore the fact McDavid is producing at a higher ES clip this season than 22-23; when he put up 153 points, but "hasnt looked himself".

Precisely why stats aren't everything.

 

[Matsun]

MacKinnon/Makar is the closest comparable and im with you this year, but last year wasnt close. Even Draisaitl's 19-20 covid Hart, he barely won. MacKinnon had 17 less points and nearly took it from him. That is how powerful the 2nd-5th place voting was who didnt give Drais anything or top voting because of...ding ding ding McDavid.

Saying go watch games makes for a pathetic debate and I respect not having the time nor energy to want to research deeper, but I enjoy dissecting stats. Watching games I can point to a highlight goal or a pathetic backcheck for all these guys.

Eichel gets my vote this year if a forward should win, but since the forward crop is pretty watered down with no one running away with it, then Helle.

I havn't seen anyone bringing up Eichel, would love to hear your case for him.

 

[Beyonder91]

The idea that how close you are to 1 teammate affects how valuable you are and not how you compare to the entire roster of 20+ players continues to be one of the worst arguments on this site

First of all it's to a linemate and absolutely is an indicator of how valuable you are.

Then there's the whole fact of being in on 50% of your teams goals like he was last year when he absolutely should have won the Hart.

 

[landy]

The idea that how close you are to 1 teammate affects how valuable you are and not how you compare to the entire roster of 20+ players continues to be one of the worst arguments on this site

Hall/MacKinnon is the last year that seemingly affected voting. Its where the frustration of point obsession here comes in. Weve barely talked about Kuch for all season and all of a sudden hes the MVP?! like wut?! Here are the NHL.com votes for the year, who all have real actual votes.

November 21 2024: Kaprisov (73 - 13 1sts), MacKinnon (49 - 2 1sts)

Trophy Tracker: Kaprizov of Wild picked to win Hart as most valuable player | NHL.com

MacKinnon, Reinhart also among favorites at quarter mark of season by NHL.com panel

www.nhl.com

January 12 2025: MacKinnon (60 - 7 1sts), Kaprisov (53 - 5 1sts), Kuch (29 - 1 1st), Drais (23 - 1 1st), Eichel (20 - 1 1st), Helle (16 - 1 1st)

Trophy Tracker: MacKinnon of Avalanche picked to win Hart as most valuable player | NHL.com

Kaprizov, Kucherov also among favorites at halfway point of season by NHL.com panel

www.nhl.com

March 14 2025: MacKinnon (71 - 9 1sts) , Drais (47 - 3 1sts), Helle (38 - 3 1sts), Werenski (23 - 1 1st)

Trophy Tracker: MacKinnon of Avalanche picked to win Hart as League MVP | NHL.com

Draisaitl, Hellebuyck also among favorites at 3-quarter mark of season by NHL.com panel

www.nhl.com

Maybe they arent right, but odds are they are. So the question we should be asking is how much has changed in a month?

IMO

MacKinnon down
Kuch up
Helle even
Drais down

Is that enough to close out voting for Helle? Maybe/maybe not. it is where the full season of work comes into play and not simply flavor of the week.

 

[landy]

I havn't seen anyone bringing up Eichel, would love to hear your case for him.

Point totals arent there sadly, but hes more of the doing it with less argument, similar to Werenski.

 

[Muffin]

First of all it's to a linemate and absolutely is an indicator of how valuable you are.

Then there's the whole fact of being in on 50% of your teams goals like he was last year when he absolutely should have won the Hart.

MacKinnon lost his Hart to Hall in 17-18 while having 47 points more than his second teammate so clearly voters don’t care about that

 

[Zerotonine]

This topic is giving me a headache

Kuch easily has the deepest team/linemates to play with ainec

Drai will never get the recognition he deserves simply because of mcdavid

Mackinnion isn't even the mvp on his own team let alone the league

Helleybuch SHOULD win. He is leading in pretty much every statics available. I think I seen that only 3 goalies have ever done that in nhl history. I believe it was Ken dryden, Bernie parent and the 3rd goalie eludes me but it was early on if im not mistaken. So that feat alone is Hart worthy

 

[Duke74]

I watch the games...but I cant say Jan 15th in the 2nd period against the Leafs, Draisiatil back-checked, broke up a play, took the puck, went down and scored, while McDavid wasnt on the ice so he deserves the Hart and has been better than McDavid. I can see that he is with McDavid 50% of his total ice time and receives weaker matchups when apart.

It makes for no discussion here at all...

Im guessing you're an Oilers fan and maybe have watched every game so far, but I obviously can safely assume you didnt watch every Knights, Lightning, Jets, nor Avalanche game for comparison...which is where stats, highlights, compressed games, etc come in.

So you're just going to ignore the fact McDavid is producing at a higher ES clip this season than 22-23; when he put up 153 points, but "hasnt looked himself". LOL. Or maybe, just maybe the difference in 275 vs 207 pp opportunities has a drastic effect on his point totals, which now shows that he is on par with the other big boys in the league without them.

See stats...

You claim to like statistics, so do you have proof that Draisaitl faces weaker matchups away from McDavid? Draisaitl also faces the other team's top lines fairly frequently. And when McDavid isn't playing, Draisaitl always faces the other team's top lines and still produces at a similar rate.

McDavid is obviously the better overall player and better for the majority of seasons. However, this year, Draisaitl has been the better of the two.

 

[Beyonder91]

MacKinnon lost his Hart to Hall in 17-18 while having 47 points more than his second teammate so clearly voters don’t care about that

No... he had 13 more points than Rantanen that year.

It was Taylor Hall that had 41 more points than the next closest teammate.

 

[Sky04]

MacKinnon lost his Hart to Hall in 17-18 while having 47 points more than his second teammate so clearly voters don’t care about that

You sure your math is correct there bud? You don't wanna double check that? 47? Lmao

 

[MardyBum]

If people want to play "but last year" to pump Kucherov:

Hellebuyck finished 6th in Hart voting last year and had an even better season this year, by every statistical measure.

Every player above him last year had a worse statistical season this year.

Mackinnon - 24 less points
Kucherov - 25 less points
McDavid - 33 less points
Matthews and Panarin aren't even in the convo this year, and Draisaitl equaled his total from last year that didn't have him sniffing the Hart trophy and has missed 14% of the season.

Kucherov going to win the Art Ross with what, 120ish points? Not even as good as his season last year where he didn't win. It's his third best season. Lowest Art Ross total since Covid shortened seasons.

Hellebuyck also has the Jennings and Presidents Trophy narrative, might even convince some of the media that think it's the "best forward" award to change their minds.

Comrie the backup is also 9-10-1 and has been around replacement level, unlike Brossoit last year who was legitimately amazing.

 

[Beyonder91]

This topic is giving me a headache

Kuch easily has the deepest team/linemates to play with ainec

Drai will never get the recognition he deserves simply because of mcdavid

Mackinnion isn't even the mvp on his own team let alone the league

Helleybuch SHOULD win. He is leading in pretty much every statics available. I think I seen that only 3 goalies have ever done that in nhl history. I believe it was Ken dryden, Bernie parent and the 3rd goalie eludes me but it was early on if im not mistaken. So that feat alone is Hart worthy

Agreed. Kucherov should have won last year when he really did carry a poor team.
This year is a much tougher call but I'd also give the edge to Hellebyuck.

 

[Muffin]

No... he had 13 more points than Rantanen that year.

It was Taylor Hall that had 41 more points than the next closest teammate.

Sorry got them snubs mixed up. It was 19-20 that he had 43 points more and lost to a Draisaitl playing with McDavid.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Just give it to Helleybuck , how kuch doesn't win the MVP last year really makes the whole thing kind of a farce when discussing forwards

 

[Beyonder91]

Sorry got them snubs mixed up. It was 19-20 that he had 43 points more and lost to a Draisaitl playing with McDavid.

Yeah and that's probably why he won last year. He was due. It's all just a popularity contest with the Hart trophy.
The Ted Lindsay is a better one as it's voted on by the players for the "Most Outstanding Player".
Last year I believe Kucherov should have won the Hart and Mackinnon the Lindsay.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

If people want to play "but last year" to pump Kucherov:

Hellebuyck finished 6th in Hart voting last year and had an even better season this year, by every statistical measure.

Every player above him last year had a worse statistical season this year.

Mackinnon - 24 less points
Kucherov - 25 less points
McDavid - 33 less points
Matthews and Panarin aren't even in the convo this year, and Draisaitl equaled his total from last year that didn't have him sniffing the Hart trophy and has missed 14% of the season.

Kucherov going to win the Art Ross with what, 120ish points? Not even as good as his season last year where he didn't win. It's his third best season. Lowest Art Ross total since Covid shortened seasons.

Hellebuyck also has the Jennings and Presidents Trophy narrative, might even convince some of the media that think it's the "best forward" award to change their minds.

Comrie the backup is also 9-10-1 and has been around replacement level, unlike Brossoit last year who was legitimately amazing.

What? He’s literally top 5 in SV% among goalies with > 20 GP. Narrative-driven Hellebuyck hype is out of control.