More MVP Worthy Player: Mackinnon, Kuch or Drai?

[Gjman2019]

Draisaitl put an end to the race on Sat night...

 

[landy]

I keep coming back to this. If Kucherov gets closer this year than last, it shows that the voters aren't really dialing into much. TB has been good this year, and Kuch has been the best player. But last year he was pretty much the only player. (Well, Hagel.)

And still lost the Hart by A LOT.

Classic, penalizing Drai for being on the same team as McDavid, but not for MacK being on the same team as Makar, the consistent Norris winner, or Kuch being on the same team as Point and Hedman.

lol

And Drai's defensive metrics are miles ahead of MacK and Kuch.

MacK and Kuch are great players in their own way, let's not use the stupid narrative of better teammates. lol have you check the linemates that Drai has to play with this season?

I dont disagree there. Helle or Eichel would be at the top of my Hart voting for that reason, but its basically a glorified Art Ross with who the writers watch most, but they put a lot of stock into narratives and storylines if the scoring race is close. The Avalanche having so much roster shuffle and Georgiev has MacKinnon leading as of Mar 14th (only 2 weeks ago), and its pretty obvious the posters here dont agree with those who actually vote on the award.

 

[JLo217]

One thing people forget about for Mack is how much he had to carry the team while George was letting in 4-5 goals every game, the roster up until the deadline...

In my head it's still Macks. Half that roster was an AHL team with AHL level goaltending and he really lead them to where they are now with injuries and depth issues.

 

[NVious]

I don't mind any of them winning, they're all great in their own right.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I’d say Draisitl, then Helle this year.

 

[Matsun]

I don't see the case for MacKinnon right now. Among the big 3 forwards of the season he has the fewest goals and the lowest PPG but there is still enough games left for a player like MacKinnon to turn it on though so it will be a great end to the season.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Draisaitl will win the MVP this year.
Reason being, Oilers without Draisaitl this year would be in the bottom 5 times, Especially with the year that Mcdavid is having.

Draisaitl has played better all around than Mack and Kuch.

Helle would be 2nd followed by Eichel, Mack and Kuch.

 

[acor]

Let me guess- discussion is not about who is having the best season, but more about which team would suck most without them?

 

[mcdingdong]

Drai is amongst one of the worst defensive forwards in the league so i guess that eliminates him too?

Last time you watched a game must've been when that Hockey News in your avatar was hot off the presses.

 

[alphahelix]

It’s crazy that Ovechkin has almost a full minute more of PPTOI per game than Draisaitl does. Ovechkin’s raw PP time and total shot numbers in his career are wild. He also leads all-time empty net goals of course.

The top 4 players this season for PPTOI this season are Ovechkin, Rantanen, Kucherov, and MacKinnon.

Draisaitl is barely in the top 30. And this has nothing to do with utilization, Drai sees MOST of the PP time on Edmonton — Refs just f***ing hate Edmonton and are allergic to giving them PP’s since they went 30%+ a couple years ago.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He also leads all-time empty net goals of course.

followed by Gretzky in second.
Both are 1/2 in goals and empty net goals.

 

[KlefDown]

One thing people forget about for Mack is how much he had to carry the team while George was letting in 4-5 goals every game, the roster up until the deadline...

In my head it's still Macks. Half that roster was an AHL team with AHL level goaltending and he really lead them to where they are now with injuries and depth issues.

have you heard of stuart skinner? at least try to know something about the players MacK is up against

 

[phrenssoa]

It's about a dead heat. Drai has the best numbers but having McDavid on your team all but eliminates him to me, since he's really not even the mvp of his own team.

I think Kucherov deserves it more due to him being robbed by Mack for one already.

Draisaitl is undoubtedly the MVP on his own team this year. It’s not even close. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[phrenssoa]

Drai is amongst one of the worst defensive forwards in the league so i guess that eliminates him too?

Draisaitl has been very good this year in his own end. I have often criticized his defensive play in the past, but this year he has stepped it up big time.

 

[JLo217]

have you heard of stuart skinner? at least try to know something about the players MacK is up against

Better than George... by a good margin... no sympathy here

On top of that, look at the Avs bottom 6 until they picked up Necas and Drury.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Players with 3+ consecutive 110+ point seasons, NHL history

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky
• 6x - Guy Lafleur, Mike Bossy
• 5x - Phil Esposito
• 4x - Marcel Dionne
• 3x - Bobby Orr, Connor McDavid, Jari Kurri, Mario Lemieux, Nathan MacKinnon, Paul Coffey, Peter Stastny

MacKinnon just became only the 12th player in NHL history to record three consecutive 110+ point seasons.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Mack, easily.

 

[crowfish]

It’s crazy that Ovechkin has almost a full minute more of PPTOI per game than Draisaitl does. Ovechkin’s raw PP time and total shot numbers in his career are wild. He also leads all-time empty net goals of course.

The top 4 players this season for PPTOI this season are Ovechkin, Rantanen, Kucherov, and MacKinnon.

Draisaitl is barely in the top 30. And this has nothing to do with utilization, Drai sees MOST of the PP time on Edmonton — Refs just f***ing hate Edmonton and are allergic to giving them PP’s since they went 30%+ a couple years ago.

This doesn't get talked about enough. The lack of powerplays for the Oilers in the past 2 seasons is laughable. They have special standards for sure. They are 31st out of 33 teams in PP TOI per game with McDavid & Draisaitl in their primes.

 

[LightningStrikes]

This doesn't get talked about enough. The lack of powerplays for the Oilers in the past 2 seasons is laughable. They have special standards for sure. They are 31st out of 33 teams in PP TOI per game with McDavid & Draisaitl in their primes.

View attachment 1003711

Is Edmonton double-shifting 29 and 97 on the PP (honest question)? I know Kuch is out there for almost the full two minutes if he can and I imagine MacK is too looking at these numbers.

 

[alphahelix]

Is Edmonton double-shifting 29 and 97 on the PP (honest question)? I know Kuch is out there for almost the full two minutes if he can and I imagine MacK is too looking at these numbers.

They’re all out there for like 79-83% of their teams PPTOI iirc, it’s been a minute. The outlier guy is Ovechkin, who is out there like 97% or more a lot of years. Sometimes like 99%. The guy only misses a few seconds a year of potential gravy time and always shoots huge volume and is always out there for the empty net.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Drai was the clear mvp before injury. Now , I think Helly will take it.

Yes, it’s Helly for sure.

 

[luiginb]

Kucherov for me

 

[BruinLVGA]

Remember that thread about Pasta being on a 15 game point streak and one or two musing about Hart votes?

Since then, he has scored 3 goals and 11 points in 13 games, while the Bruins have lost 11 times and are just one point out of last place in the conference. There’s very little that’s incredible or amazing about his season, and to call him the most MVP worthy player is an insult to the ones truly making an impact.

Hockey is a team sport. A player by himself can’t make a team win: this is not tennis, and it’s not rocket science either, and you should know it, if you are not new to the sport.

But a player’s performance is surely impacted by the environment around him. And to do what Pastrnak has done in that pathetically bad environment that are the 24-25 Bruins (pretty much everyone dramatically underperforming from the previous season, most of the best players - Marchand, McAvoy, Lindholm - out for significant time, a bunch of players - including their captain and second best Bruins points producer in the season - traded at the deadline for picks and prospects, a change of head coach in the middle of the season) is a million times more difficult than playing for teams that are easing into the playoffs with multiple players having great production and overall great performance.

As far as remembering things, you should heed your own advice and remember the 2017-18 season when Taylor Hall won the Hart with 93 points (Hischier was second on the team with 52) and the NJ Devils sneaked in the playoffs at the 2nd wild card spot by 1 points over the Panthers.
If the Devils would have been near the bottom, and Hall would have still had the very same season, would his performance have been “an insult to the ones truly making an impact”?

Bottomline, if Pastrnak didn’t have a very close to Hall-17/18-like season performance, the Bruins would be looking at the San Jose Sharks from way, WAY below. But even with such an astonishing performance, even he couldn’t all by himself drag a dead body like the 24-25 Bruins to the finish line in a winner’s spot.
Hope this is clearer.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Players with 3+ consecutive 110+ point seasons, NHL history

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky
• 6x - Guy Lafleur, Mike Bossy
• 5x - Phil Esposito
• 4x - Marcel Dionne
• 3x - Bobby Orr, Connor McDavid, Jari Kurri, Mario Lemieux, Nathan MacKinnon, Paul Coffey, Peter Stastny

MacKinnon just became only the 12th player in NHL history to record three consecutive 110+ point seasons.

They should give him the 3 season hart then.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Players with 3+ consecutive 110+ point seasons, NHL history

• 12x - Wayne Gretzky
• 6x - Guy Lafleur, Mike Bossy
• 5x - Phil Esposito
• 4x - Marcel Dionne
• 3x - Bobby Orr, Connor McDavid, Jari Kurri, Mario Lemieux, Nathan MacKinnon, Paul Coffey, Peter Stastny

MacKinnon just became only the 12th player in NHL history to record three consecutive 110+ point seasons.

Great find. Kucherov probably joins that list tonight.