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Reality Czech

Reality Czech

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I mentioned it in the other thread but why exactly are some people convinced Monty is the coach we need?

I understand the St. Louis ties and he seems universally liked as a person, but I'm just wondering why he's such a hot topic around here. True, he's had a lot of regular season success lately but I've also read comments from Bruins fans that he got severely outcoached in the playoffs and didn't take responsibility for the team's loss.

Obviously he was hyped a lot during the Bruins record breaking season but his stock has fallen since then and the Bruins are a shitshow this year. I honestly can't see the Blues firing Bannister this soon into his extension but if Monty takes the rest of the year off then maybe he comes here next summer. I'm just not as sold on Monty as some other people I guess.
 
TheDizee

TheDizee

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Reality Czech said:
I mentioned it in the other thread but why exactly are some people convinced Monty is the coach we need?

I understand the St. Louis ties and he seems universally liked as a person, but I'm just wondering why he's such a hot topic around here. True, he's had a lot of regular season success lately but I've also read comments from Bruins fans that he got severely outcoached in the playoffs and didn't take responsibility for the team's loss.

Obviously he was hyped a lot during the Bruins record breaking season but his stock has fallen since then and the Bruins are a shitshow this year. I honestly can't see the Blues firing Bannister this soon into his extension but if Monty takes the rest of the year off then maybe he comes here next summer. I'm just not as sold on Monty as some other people I guess.
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Yeah we don't need him. We have Drew Bannister. He is a amazing fearless leader.
 
TheDizee

TheDizee

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Bye Bye Blueston said:
The job this year is to build culture and develop players. Bannister may well be right guy for that even if he isn’t guy to lead us back to the top. Monty is likely much better coach, but is he best fit for where we are now?
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Bannister is building a culture alright. A loser one.
 
Brian39

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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Reality Czech said:
I mentioned it in the other thread but why exactly are some people convinced Monty is the coach we need?

I understand the St. Louis ties and he seems universally liked as a person, but I'm just wondering why he's such a hot topic around here. True, he's had a lot of regular season success lately but I've also read comments from Bruins fans that he got severely outcoached in the playoffs and didn't take responsibility for the team's loss.

Obviously he was hyped a lot during the Bruins record breaking season but his stock has fallen since then and the Bruins are a shitshow this year. I honestly can't see the Blues firing Bannister this soon into his extension but if Monty takes the rest of the year off then maybe he comes here next summer. I'm just not as sold on Monty as some other people I guess.
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He has a hell of a resume that goes well beyond the regular season success in Boston.

His first head coaching job was for an expansion team in the USHL. They won the championship in year 1 and another in year 3.

Then he left for the NCAA and built Denver into a top 5 program. In his 5 years there they made 2 trips to the Frozen Four and won a National Championship.

Then he got his first NHL job with a Dallas team that had missed the playoffs each of the previous 2 seasons. He got them back to the playoffs in his first year and they took us to double OT of game 7 on our way to the Cup. Then midway through his 2nd season he got fired for undisclosed conduct. We still don't know the details, other than the facts that it didn't involve abuse of players and was related to him being an alcoholic.

He went to rehab in 2020 and then we hired him as an assistant for the 2021/22 season after a decidedly mediocre 2020/21 season where we went 27-20-9, made the playoffs as a distant 4th seed in the division and then got absolutely dominated by the Avs in the playoffs (4 game sweep and outscored 20-7).

Monty wasn't the only change for 2021/22 (Buch/Saad in, Schwartz/Dunn/Hoffman out, Tarasenko returning to form) but we had a massively better season (49-22-11) and he got a lot of credit. Then he left, we returned largely the same roster (minus Perron) for 2022/23 and the team was an inconsistent mess. We notably underperformed expectations, which led to us being sellers at the deadline and starting this re-whatever that is now in year 3. Meanwhile, Monty dramatically improved the Bruins in year 1, winning the Presidents Trophy and setting the all time record for points in the standings.

All told, he has 11 years of head coaching experience across the USHL, NCAA, and NHL. He has made the playoffs (or national tournament) all 11 years with 3 championships at the USHL/NCAA levels and a President's Trophy win in the NHL (which got him coach of the year). He also made the playoffs in his lone year as an NHL assistant with us.

I don't disagree with you about the warts. I think the "bruins choked" narrative is a bit simplistic in 2022/23, but he was outcoached in those playoffs. And his success in Dallas was probably more about Ben Bishop and some luck than him being an amazing coach. And none of us know what his impact was on our team. But he is a guy who had a damn strong resume to get to the NHL and has had largely good results coaching at the NHL level. I don't think many people in this Blues are weighing his time in Boston that heavily to form our opinions of him.
 
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SirPaste

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Bye Bye Blueston said:
The job this year is to build culture and develop players. Bannister may well be right guy for that even if he isn’t guy to lead us back to the top. Monty is likely much better coach, but is he best fit for where we are now?
Click to expand...
Is he though? Playing the 4th line for 14 minutes while Bolduc and Holloway are actually playing well and getting around 9 minutes doesn't really seem like he is developing them. The way he has had Bolduc on the bench so often would lead me to believe the same thing. I know we all thought Bannister would be good at developing since he was an AHL coach prior but I guess I am just not seeing it. Not saying he needs to go or anything like that I just don't understand the belief that he is the right guy to develop our youngsters.
 
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CurrentCS

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I think the Blues are at the very top of landing Montgomery and I hope they can make it happen.

I have not been impressed with Bannister at all this year. Yes he's had injuries to deal with, significant ones, but i think the pressure got to him early and most of his decisions the past 10 games or so has been him throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. He changes line combos every 5 minutes it seems and his scratches have been real head scratchers. The way he's handled Bolduc and Texier especially has been poor, imo, and for a team desperate for Center help I don't understand why he keeps yanking Holloway up and down the lineup as well as from the wing to center and back again.

He's done a pretty poor job over 20 games and I don't really see the need to see much more before making a move for the guy it's pretty clear was the target all along in the offseason. It's no coincidence the Blues announced the Bannister 2 year hiring a day after Boston won their 1st round series and advanced. Monty has always been the guy Armstrong wanted, imo.
 
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Bye Bye Blueston

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SirPaste said:
Is he though? Playing the 4th line for 14 minutes while Bolduc and Holloway are actually playing well and getting around 9 minutes doesn't really seem like he is developing them. The way he has had Bolduc on the bench so often would lead me to believe the same thing. I know we all thought Bannister would be good at developing since he was an AHL coach prior but I guess I am just not seeing it. Not saying he needs to go or anything like that I just don't understand the belief that he is the right guy to develop our youngsters.
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He may not be. My point wasn't that Bannister is doing great job, just that he should be judged on how well he is fulfilling our mission for this season, not whether he is great coach.
 
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mk80

mk80

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Bannister’s extension has always felt like a placeholder to me. I think he can be a good coach at this level someday, but given the choice between him and Montgomery, my pick is Montgomery every time.
 
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Bluesnatic27

Bluesnatic27

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mk80 said:
Bannister’s extension has always felt like a placeholder to me. I think he can be a good coach at this level someday, but given the choice between him and Montgomery, my pick is Montgomery every time.
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I have no doubts he will get better and he has had success at multiple levels. But man, I’ve never been impressed with Bannister. Even when he coached the Soo back in 2018, he never impressed me with his in-game decisions and game schematics.

I know Robert Thomas was a beast when his team beat them. But I still put quite a bit of blame on Bannister as to why the Soo lost in the OHL playoffs that year.
 
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ChicagoBlues

ChicagoBlues

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We don't need Bannister to get better with the Blues. The way he is handling Bolduc and Holloway is alarming. And Banny is signed through 2026. WTF

I wonder how much input the assistant coaches have and what the weight is of each person's opinion on Bolduc and Holloway.
 
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Snubbed4Vezina

Snubbed4Vezina

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mk80 said:
Bannister’s extension has always felt like a placeholder to me. I think he can be a good coach at this level someday, but given the choice between him and Montgomery, my pick is Montgomery every time.
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I see Bannister the same way I saw Yeo and Payne: a bridge to the point when the team is ready to compete, then the Blues bring in a heavier hitter.
 
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BadgersandBlues

BadgersandBlues

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Bannister has coached 75 total games for the Blues. In that time period, we are (All 5v5 metrics):

-4th worst in Corsi (29th out of 32 teams)
-5th worst in shot% (28th out of 32 teams)
-3rd worst in xGF% (30th out of 32 teams)
-4th worst in Scoring Chances For % (29th out of 32 teams)
-2nd worst in high danger for % (31 out of 32 teams)

The teams that are consistently below us in all these rankings are the Sharks, Blackhawks, and Ducks, with some Montreal thrown in for seasoning (See what I did there)

I don't think our team is a contender. But we should NOT be this terrible 5v5. The Blues won a ton of games last year b/c of Binner/Hofer and our ability to score first in OT - not because of Bannister.

I could understand it if Bannister was unlocking Bolduc/Neighbors/Holloway/whomever, but frankly Neighbors has been hot garbage most of this season, Holloway and Bolduc have been thrown into a line blender every night, and I'm still f***ing SHOCKED that Bolduc, of all people, got benched after that 8-1 drubbing against Washington. He was one of the few players that didn't quit, and his reward was the f***ing pressbox. I'd be f***ing livid if I was Bolduc right now, he's playing his ass off and has some of the best underlying metrics on the entire team, yet gets healthy scratched when Schenn and Saad look like they're out there enjoying their babytown frolic and collecting their fat paychecks.

I can't f***ing stand watching the current iteration if this team, fire Bannister into the Sun and go offer Monty a palace in Frontenac for f***s sake.
 
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Brian39

Brian39

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BadgersandBlues said:
Bannister has coached 75 total games for the Blues. In that time period, we are (All 5v5 metrics):

-4th worst in Corsi (29th out of 32 teams)
-5th worst in shot% (28th out of 32 teams)
-3rd worst in xGF% (30th out of 32 teams)
-4th worst in Scoring Chances For % (29th out of 32 teams)
-2nd worst in high danger for % (31 out of 32 teams)

The teams that are consistently below us in all these rankings are the Sharks, Blackhawks, and Ducks, with some Montreal thrown in for seasoning (See what I did there)

I don't think our team is a contender. But we should NOT be this terrible 5v5. The Blues won a ton of games last year b/c of Binner/Hofer and our ability to score first in OT - not because of Bannister.

I could understand it if Bannister was unlocking Bolduc/Neighbors/Holloway/whomever, but frankly Neighbors has been hot garbage most of this season, Holloway and Bolduc have been thrown into a line blender every night, and I'm still f***ing SHOCKED that Bolduc, of all people, got benched after that 8-1 drubbing against Washington. He was one of the few players that didn't quit, and his reward was the f***ing pressbox. I'd be f***ing livid if I was Bolduc right now, he's playing his ass off and has some of the best underlying metrics on the entire team, yet gets healthy scratched when Schenn and Saad look like they're out there enjoying their babytown frolic and collecting their fat paychecks.

I can't f***ing stand watching the current iteration if this team, fire Bannister into the Sun and go offer Monty a palace in Frontenac for f***s sake.
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I think it is very much worth noting that this is a trend that goes back well before Bannister took over. In Berube's last 110 games with the Blues (2022/23 and the games he coached in 2023/24) the Blues were 25th or worst in each of those metrics.

The numbers weren't great in 2021/22 either. We finished 20th or worse in every underlying metric that year. 2020/21 is harder to analyze since every team only had 7 other opponents, but we were between 17th and 30th in all those metrics that year.

This is year 5 of awful underlying numbers for this team. Are we sure that we should not be this terrible at 5 on 5?

This isn't to say that Bannister should get a total pass for awful underlying numbers, but what should we expect to be at 5 on 5?
 
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BadgersandBlues

BadgersandBlues

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Brian39 said:
I think it is very much worth noting that this is a trend that goes back well before Bannister took over. In Berube's last 110 games with the Blues (2022/23 and the games he coached in 2023/24) the Blues were 25th or worst in each of those metrics.

The numbers weren't great in 2021/22 either. We finished 20th or worse in every underlying metric that year. 2020/21 is harder to analyze since every team only had 7 other opponents, but we were between 17th and 30th in all those metrics that year.

This is year 5 of awful underlying numbers for this team. Are we sure that we should not be this terrible at 5 on 5?

This isn't to say that Bannister should get a total pass for awful underlying numbers, but what should we expect to be at 5 on 5?
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That's a fair point. We've always had poor underlying metrics basically since AP left, but prior to the last two years we've always found a way to outperform them, either with good goaltending or stellar finishing.
 
PocketNines

PocketNines

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BadgersandBlues said:
That's a fair point. We've always had poor underlying metrics basically since AP left, but prior to the last two years we've always found a way to outperform them, either with good goaltending or stellar finishing.
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Who cares about underlying metrics as long as the guy can't powerfully stop himself from getting traded. I care about the power of the owner, it's powerrrrrr, that comes first. We may suck but at least Tom didn't get insulted by having his best player with four very young kids control his own career.
 
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