Post-Game Talk: Montreal - where the people are beautiful and Oilers hockey is ugly

[barry halls]

Yes they are unlucky.
Hyman and Skinner are on pace for 15 goals, Arvidsson on pace for 10, RNH on pace for 5. Sorry but these are entirely unsustainable numbers.
The PP is at 16%, PK at 67%. All unsustainable, just no way that these numbers across the board don't improve, and likely drastically, throughout the season.

There's a lot of bad luck involved here mixed with too much perimeter play but they've always largely been a perimeter team, it's not like the team has been playing poorly and not generating much, things almost always balance out over the course of the season and I suspect most of these numbers will as well.

I think Skinner is cooked, he was bought out for a reason. Having McLeod and Holloway instead, or even just one of them, would be much better and make more sense for the trajectory of this team, an old team that needs youth and speed.
Unfortunately Hyman and RNH are likely entering the downslope of their careers, I know Hyman's career got going late but there's a lot of hard miles on him. I love Nuge but he's played 974 career games including playoffs, he's bound to start slowing down.
I think the PK is what it is, the personnel was decimated by Jackson. Desharnais, Ceci, and McLeod were PK staples last year and each one of them was replaced with a downgrade. Combined with sketchy goaltending I don't see any reason to expect the PK to get much better.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

It must suck for Drai to finally think that he's getting top six wingers to play with only to find out he is still playing with bottom sixers like Podkolzin and Perry.

It's not like we don't have talent for this team. If the vets aren't cutting it, let him sit and give the kids a chance.

Imagine his goal total if our PP was clicking. He would start running away with the rocket

 

[Soundwave]

I think Skinner is cooked, he was bought out for a reason. Having McLeod and Holloway instead, or even just one of them, would be much better and make more sense for the trajectory of this team, an old team that needs youth and speed.
Unfortunately Hyman and RNH are likely entering the downslope of their careers, I know Hyman's career got going late but there's a lot of hard miles on him. I love Nuge but he's played 974 career games including playoffs, he's bound to start slowing down.
I think the PK is what it is, the personnel was decimated by Jackson. Desharnais, Ceci, and McLeod were PK staples last year and each one of them was replaced with a downgrade. Combined with sketchy goaltending I don't see any reason to expect the PK to get much better.

They are dead last in NHL shooting % after being 9th best last year and 1st in 22-23.

Figure that one out.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They are dead last in NHL shooting % after being 9th best last year and 1st in 22-23.

Figure that one out.

Because muffins from the point count the same as breakaways.

 

[Soundwave]

Because muffins from the point count the same as breakaways.

They've always taken a lot of point shots. They are among the NHL leaders in shots from the slot this year too.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

They've always taken a lot of point shots. They are among the NHL leaders in shots from the slot this year too.

Montembeault didn't have to make a single difficult save last night

 

[Soundwave]

Montembeault didn't have to make a single difficult save last night

That's one out of 19 games though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Enough man. Out of the signings, he’s been the only that’s been producing. You just have some hard on hate for small players and then you have bias for Leon in the oddest possible way. I can never take your opinion seriously. Every player that seems to play with Leon is the worse while Leon can never make any mistakes.

It couldn't just be that locking into often injured Arvid for 4MX2 for a cash strapped club was just a very bad idea. ANY of our signings are producing far less than the ones we lost.

Yeah, I have "a bias" for the leading scorer in the NHL. A player that actually moves the dial every season he's ever played and will be guaranteed to be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[bellagiobob]

Yes they are unlucky.
Hyman and Skinner are on pace for 15 goals, Arvidsson on pace for 10, RNH on pace for 5. Sorry but these are entirely unsustainable numbers.
The PP is at 16%, PK at 67%. All unsustainable, just no way that these numbers across the board don't improve, and likely drastically, throughout the season.

There's a lot of bad luck involved here mixed with too much perimeter play but they've always largely been a perimeter team, it's not like the team has been playing poorly and not generating much, things almost always balance out over the course of the season and I suspect most of these numbers will as well.

Every week I keep saying the same thing about my fantasy football team, I have multiple top 10 guys at every position, and every week something comically goes wrong. At some point (like now) one just has to accept it’s one of those years. Not at that point with the Oilers yet, but 25% of the schedule being completed isn’t insignificant. Another 10 games of this puts me in real worry mode.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's one out of 19 games though.

They're scoring at an abysmal rate in a year where goaltending is worse across the board. We're about a quarter into the season and the offense ranks 24th.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes they are unlucky.
Hyman and Skinner are on pace for 15 goals, Arvidsson on pace for 10, RNH on pace for 5. Sorry but these are entirely unsustainable numbers.
The PP is at 16%, PK at 67%. All unsustainable, just no way that these numbers across the board don't improve, and likely drastically, throughout the season.

There's a lot of bad luck involved here mixed with too much perimeter play but they've always largely been a perimeter team, it's not like the team has been playing poorly and not generating much, things almost always balance out over the course of the season and I suspect most of these numbers will as well.

Arvids non PP production in recent seasons has been around 15 goals. Quite clearly he wasn't going to be getting first unit PP time here or much at all, and no reason he should. Hyman fall back was likely to be back to his 25-30 goals this season. Nuge is usually good for 20. Of course the Oilers are scoring less than they should, shooting % lower than they should be but we were always going to have trouble matching anything close to last seasons production. With this old and tired roster that just wasn't going to happen.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

I was told that two weeks ago and outside of one game against the Canucks they still struggle to score.

It’s amazing how thick you are. Do u actually believe these numbers stay this way all year? lol. Again are you new to sports?

 

[Drivesaitl]

RNH was bad last year too, 18 goals playing with a 100 assist Mcdavid was embarrassing. It's reasonable to think that it probably cost Mcdavid another Art Ross.

Hyman looks a bit slower this year too, so he's not getting in on the forecheck as effectively this year. With the duo of Mcdavid/Hyman not retrieving and possessing the puck in the same way, they aren't dominating teams in the offensive zone like they did last year, thus RNH can't get his usual slew of participation points he's spent his career getting as a perpetual 3rd wheel and coattail rider.

Easily one of Knoblauch's biggest mistakes this year, not breaking up the first line for any other reason than to reunite the Mcdrai pairing.

Hyman is playing injured. Would bet on it and it being a nagging injury limiting him. He's getting a lot more coverage and getting belted too. Teams recognizing finally he was a threat. Thats what happens with 50 goal scorers teams start to scheme to shut it down. He's not having as easy a time of it this season. Teams were often playing us so weak last season it was easy. NHL correction has occurred and better schemes to shut us down. For sure theres room to make some changes but theres also major concerns with how many players shouldn't even be on a contender team. On this roster the number of pretenders has grown.

 

[Soundwave]

Hyman is playing injured. Would bet on it and it being a nagging injury limiting him. He's getting a lot more coverage and getting belted too. Teams recognizing finally he was a threat. Thats what happens with 50 goal scorers teams start to scheme to shut it down. He's not having as easy a time of it this season. Teams were often playing us so weak last season it was easy. NHL correction has occurred and better schemes to shut us down. For sure theres room to make some changes but theres also major concerns with how many players shouldn't even be on a contender team. On this roster the number of pretenders has grown.

The idea that this team has ever had a great forward group is a lie. They have never had that in the McDavid era ever, they go as far as McDavid + Drai + 1 or 2 other forwards take them (Hyman and sometimes Kane and even Kane isn't reliable anymore) and that extra forward or two that produces generally has to be tied to McDavid.

They've never had a reliable 2nd scoring line ever in the McDavid era.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Grace doesn’t mean anything right now. This is pro sports and it’s what you’re doing now. Last season and the season before have nothing to do with this one. Nuge and him can both play in the bottom 6 for a while.

Yeah Hyman deserves a ton of grace. He scored 70 goals for us last season on 6M contract. Was the best deal in the entire league. Really this guy continues to work hard and I'll give him as long a leash as he needs. Hard to perform magic in consecutive seasons. Even for guys like Smyth who were the same junkyard dogs around the net there would be seasons where it was going and those where it wasn't. You eat a ton of punishment being these players living around the net. He's playing through injury. Do fans actually fold on players this quickly after amazing seasons? Hyman deserves some respect. I can't say that for every player and particularly players that have done zilch for the Oil.

The idea that this team has ever had a great forward group is a lie. They have never had that in the McDavid era ever, they go as far as McDavid + Drai + 1 or 2 other forwards take them (Hyman and sometimes Kane and even Kane isn't reliable anymore).

They've never had a reliable 2nd scoring line ever in the McDavid era.

In my view we had incredible over performance over what could be expected from several players last season. Most notably Hyman and Booch. There was no way either was getting anywhere near the totals this season. Pretty easy to see high water marks when they occur. The uncanny thing is both Booch and Hyman continued their torrid pace even in playoffs. We can be thankful for it while not necessarily expecting it.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It’s amazing how thick you are. Do u actually believe these numbers stay this way all year? lol. Again are you new to sports?

No, but are they going to jump as high as we'd like them to? Their lack of offense is costing them games right now. The longer this goes on the more it becomes the norm rather than an outlier.

What's alarming is that their schedule has been marshmallow soft. Losses against the Blackhawks, Jackets, Habs... all these bad teams that they should outscore on any given night. These losses are going to come back to haunt them later down the road when we're (hopefully) chasing down a division crown.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah Hyman deserves a ton of grace. He scored 70 goals for us last season on 6M contract. Was the best deal in the entire league. Really this guy continues to work hard and I'll give him as long a leash as he needs. Hard to perform magic in consecutive seasons. Even for guys like Smyth who were the same junkyard dogs around the net there would be seasons where it was going and those where it wasn't. You eat a ton of punishment being these players living around the net. He's playing through injury. Do fans actually fold on players this quickly after amazing seasons? Hyman deserves some respect. I can't say that for every player and particularly players that have done zilch for the Oil.


In my view we had incredible over performance over what could be expected from several players last season. Most notably Hyman and Booch. There was no way either was getting anywhere near the totals this season. Pretty easy to see high water marks when they occur. The uncanny thing is both Booch and Hyman continued their torrid pace even in playoffs. We can be thankful for it while not necessarily expecting it.

Hyman was just getting goals McDavid would've got otherwise, because he had a torn abdominal injury, McDavid had to pass more, which then resulted in Hyman tap ins.

Now this year McDavid is forcing passes trying to get Hyman going.

The team 5 on 5 still has about the same goals as last year at game 19 ... the difference is 9 fewer goals on the PP are killing us. That prorates to about 45 less goals from the PP over the course of a season, lol.

If Hyman and RNH can't do anything with the PP time they're given (1 goal total), let someone else have some looks there so at least someone else can build confidence. The PP is killing us.

 

[guymez]

I think Skinner is cooked, he was bought out for a reason. Having McLeod and Holloway instead, or even just one of them, would be much better and make more sense for the trajectory of this team, an old team that needs youth and speed.
Unfortunately Hyman and RNH are likely entering the downslope of their careers, I know Hyman's career got going late but there's a lot of hard miles on him. I love Nuge but he's played 974 career games including playoffs, he's bound to start slowing down.
I think the PK is what it is, the personnel was decimated by Jackson. Desharnais, Ceci, and McLeod were PK staples last year and each one of them was replaced with a downgrade. Combined with sketchy goaltending I don't see any reason to expect the PK to get much better.

There is no doubt that this team isnt as good as last years team.
The players that exited have not been properly replaced. that is especially true on defence. Deharnais and Ceci have not been adequately replaced.

Same for McLeod and Foegele and to a lesser degree Holloway (who only got 5x5 minutes).
They are not only missed on the PK but at even strength too.
Foegele gave the team speed and heaviness and an ability to score. He is really missed IMO.
Much more of a 2nd line player than Podkolzin.
As much as I like Podkolzin he might not score a goal this season...he has terrible feel around the net.

All that being said the team also doesnt seem to be doing enough to help itself. Too many players are sleepwalking their way through the early part of the season so far.
Its almost like they just dont have a big enough sense of urgency in these games.

An example of that...in last nights game there were multiple very low percentage passes which not only give away possession but they also provide opportunites on the rush for the opposition team.
Just look at McDavids low percentage pass which causes the empty net goal.
Perfect example. The game is on the line and he throws up a lazy half assed pass.
That kind of stuff has to stop.

Its not just him either.
Hyman isnt even close to the player he was last season. Same with RNH.
Bouchard has sucked so far this season.
Not nearly effective enough on offence and on defence he is a disaster waiting to happen.

Go down the list...is any player on this team playing up to their potential so far?
On defence aside from Ekholm and Kulak I am not seeing it.
Nurse has been fine the last 7 games before he got injured.

At forward McDavid and Draisaitl have been fine offensively but their defensive games and puck management has been inconsisten at best.
When you look at the point stats the Oilers have 3 Dmen in the top 5 in scoring.

Here is their top 5 after 19 games (almost 1/4 of the season so far)...

Draisaitl - 24 pts
McDavid - 21 pts
Ekholm - 10 pts
Bouchard - 10 pts
Nurse - 9 pts

That tells you everything you need to know about how offensively challnged the forwards have been.


The team has to play with a higher sense of urgency and a bigger commitment to winning.
They are doing the minimum on both counts and the results so far reflect that.

 

[Lacaar]

I agree. Changing the coach yet again would be beyond foolish.

It would seem that way. It's not something I'd want to do in the slightest.

This team has a history of slow starts and coming out of it with.. unfortunately coaching changes. The coaching changes usually happen when the season becomes imperiled.

Now do the Oilers change their game when a new coach comes or when the season is in peril? That's kind of the gamble I guess.

I don't believe their play has anything to do with the Coaching. Jesus could come down from Heaven and he's not making them give a shit anymore than the guy next door.

But I do believe the Edmonton Oilers DO NOT bring their A game.. Until the chips are down.

The Oilers get tough.. when they're in tough. And that's not really a compliment.

 

[Soundwave]

There is no doubt that this team isnt as good as last years team.
The players that exited have not been properly replaced. that is especially true on defence. Deharnais and Ceci have not been adequately replaced.

Same for McLeod and Foegele and to a lesser degree Holloway (who only got 5x5 minutes).
They are not only missed on the PK but at even strength too.
Foegele gave the team speed and heaviness and an ability to score. He is really missed IMO.
Much more of a 2nd line player than Podkolzin.
As much as I like Podkolzin he might not score a goal this season...he has terrible feel around the net.

All that being said the team also doesnt seem to be doing enough to help itself. Too many players are sleepwalking their way through the early part of the season so far.
Its almost like they just dont have a big enough sense of urgency in these games.

An example of that...in last nights game there were multiple very low percentage passes which not only give away possession but they also provide opportunites on the rush for the opposition team.
Just look at McDavids low percentage pass which causes the empty net goal.
Perfect example. The game is on the line and he throws up a lazy half assed pass.
That kind of stuff has to stop.

Its not just him either.
Hyman isnt even close to the player he was last season. Same with RNH.
Bouchard has sucked so far this season.
Not nearly effective enough on offence and on defence he is a disaster waiting to happen.

Go down the list...is any player on this team playing up to their potential so far?
Aside from Ekholm and Kulak I am not seeing it.

The team has to play with a higher sense of urgency and a bigger commitment to winning.
They are doing the minimum on both counts and the results so far reflect that.

The D bit is simply not true, you are looking at last year with rose colored glasses, the defense was significantly worse this time last year and Nurse + Ceci pairing was a nightmare reoccuring all year long.

Kulak + Nurse is a massive upgrade, Nurse has been playing the best hockey of the last 2-3 years this year of late (7 points, +7 in his 8 games prior to the Toronto one).

Getting rid of Ceci may just save Nurse's game.

Desharnais is an overrated plug, playing him over Broberg was a massive mistake, this dude probably is not even in the NHL soon.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hyman was just getting goals McDavid would've got otherwise, because he had a torn abdominal injury, McDavid had to pass more, which then resulted in Hyman tap ins.

Now this year McDavid is forcing passes trying to get Hyman going.

The team 5 on 5 still has about the same goals as last year at game 19 ... the difference in 9 fewer goals on the PP are killing us. That prorates to about 45 less goals from the PP over the course of a season, lol.

If Hyman and RNH can't do anything with the PP time they're given (1 goal total), let someone else have some looks there so at least someone else can build confidence. The PP is killing us.

Shitting on a player and diminishing accomplishment of a player that just scored a 70 goal season. See, thats the difference. I actually appreciate players that row hard for the team and have done so. I find it ungrateful that posters would be shitting on Hyman so quickly after a legend season.
Saying that Hyman was only living off McDavid is the kind of thing a Leafs fan would say.

When counting amount of goals one has to factor in OT goals. Not insignificantly making up 4/50 of our measly goals scored. Also that the D have scored an inordinate amount of our goals and from players like Kulak and which is probably unsustainable. Drai probably can't keep up this torrid scoring pace either with his line.

 

[Soundwave]

Shitting on a player and diminishing accomplishment of a player that just scored a 70 goal season. See, thats the difference. I actually appreciate players that row hard for the team and have done so. I find it ungrateful that posters would be shitting on Hyman so quickly after a legend season.
Saying that Hyman was only living off McDavid is the kind of thing a Leafs fan would say.

When counting amount of goals one has to factor in OT goals. Not insignificantly making up 4/50 of our measly goals scored. Also that the D have scored an inordinate amount of our goals and from players like Kulak and which is probably unsustainable. Drai probably can't keep up this torrid scoring pace either with his line.

You're obsessed with appreciation, as if it does anything in pro sports, lol. Who gives a f***.

We need to get the PP going and it needs to get going now, 1 goal from Hyman and RNH in almost 50 PP attempts is a monstrous waste of McDavid/Draisaitl's abilities on 5 on 4, we are throwing games down the toilet right now running RNH and Hyman on the PP when every team is easily able to neutralize them on the PP.

Make some freaking changes Knob or you're going to be headed to Woody's Unemployment Land.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree. Changing the coach yet again would be beyond foolish.

Agreed. But I do think KK probably needed to be a lot more vocal in offseason about what was needed and what wasn't. I feel that his demeanor can be soft and not so vocal. I can't imagine for the life of me that a systems purist coach agreed with the offseason moves or what occurred. Specifically that we didn't get better in goal. Take a team like Montreal. Really bad club, Among worst in league but anytime you put a ringer like Montembeault in the cage you have a chance. You can just play defensive structure all game and stick to it and on some nights it works out well. We don't have any such goaltending and the whole team knows we're getting goalied almost every game. That would be so discouraging. Oilers first half of game were dominating and nothing to show for it. Montreal scores and its oh f*** here we go again.

My point is in order to get buy in to be sustained in a team the org at some point has to improve the goaltending. That was an imperative mission for the offseason and they didn't even look at it.

 

[Soundwave]

If a coach can't get more offense out of this group than the SAN JOSE SHARKS without Celebrini even, something is very wrong.

KK isn't going to be here long is that doesn't change. Fact is it's easier to fire the coach than trade players in this league.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Agreed. But I do think KK probably needed to be a lot more vocal in offseason about what was needed and what wasn't. I feel that his demeanor can be soft and not so vocal. I can't imagine for the life of me that a systems purist coach agreed with the offseason moves or what occurred. Specifically that we didn't get better in goal. Take a team like Montreal. Really bad club, Among worst in league but anytime you put a ringer like Montemblaut in the cage you have a chance. You can just play defensive structure all game and stick to it and on some nights it works out well. We don't have any such goaltending and the whole team knows we're getting goalied almost every game. That would be so discouraging. Oilers first half of game were dominating and nothing to show for it. Montreal scores and its oh f*** here we go again.

My point is in order to get buy in to be sustained in a team the org at some point has to improve the goaltending. That was an imperative mission for the offseason and they didn't even look at it.

They weren't dominating. They were just throwing pucks at net and hoping they went in. We've seen this crap so many times. That was an extremely passive game by the team.

If a coach can't get more offense out of this group than the SAN JOSE SHARKS without Celebrini even, something is very wrong.

KK isn't going to be here long is that doesn't change.

Can we please can the coach firing talk? They would be insane to do that.