Proposal: Montreal/Philly

[ArchAngel55]

Reminds me of the JVR/Schenn deal. Waiting for the other shoe to drop. Sadly it never did. Completely one sided against Philly.

 

[ArchAngel55]

This is a bit of a non sequitur. Hextall attacked Chelios in the dying moments of an elimination game that the Flyers weren't going to win as revenge against Chelios nearly decapitating Brian Propp earlier in the series.

Chelios still says it wasn't an elbow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVXzQ3YuNM

 

[Bouboumaster]

Chelios still says it wasn't an elbow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVXzQ3YuNM

Clean hit.

What a gentleman.

 

[TT1]

Pacioretty puts up 5ish more points a season and has a better two way game.

Simmonds has a cheaper contract (both great) and plays a grittier game.

Same contract length, months apart in age, and similar value.

look up their advanced stats, you'll see it really isnt close

 

[Tripod]

look up their advanced stats, you'll see it really isnt close

I bet you hate that you can't say Simmonds is only a PP guy since he was 15th in RW ES scoring.

Max P had more value IMO, but it's not a wide gap like you suggest. It certainly isn't Schenn.

Max P certainly seems to be a guy who gets a certain amount of points, yet fans rag on him. He lacks intensity, heart, etc... is what you hear.....you never hear that with Simmonds. One guy seems to get the most out if his talent level, the other seems to always leave you expecting more.

I was surprised with how many Habs fans turned on MaxP this year.

 

[1865]

We'll take Price and Pacioretty off you for nothing, it'll save you loads on the cap!

 

[Baemon Severson*]

I bet you hate that you can't say Simmonds is only a PP guy since he was 15th in RW ES scoring.

Max P had more value IMO, but it's not a wide gap like you suggest. It certainly isn't Schenn.

Max P certainly seems to be a guy who gets a certain amount of points, yet fans rag on him. He lacks intensity, heart, etc... is what you hear.....you never hear that with Simmonds. One guy seems to get the most out if his talent level, the other seems to always leave you expecting more.

I was surprised with how many Habs fans turned on MaxP this year.

I bet Pacioretty suffers from Jeff Carter/Rick Nash Syndrome. Big, effortless skater who gets their points, but get ragged on for some reason. Their true value goes beyond traditional stats

 

[boomboom]

Not disrespect to Simmonds ( I love that gritty type of player) but Max is a better player. Give Pacioretty Giroux at center and this guys will score 45 to 50 goals a year for cheap. Pach has no one feeding him the puck on the Habs, well Desharnais..... That being said, Philly does not do this trade unless Montreal adds Beaulieu and a good prospect like Andrighetto or/and Hudon or/and Fucale or/and Carr... Desharnais is on his last year, so he s like a dump but can still get you 35 to 40 points. The only players Montreal would not part with are Michael McCarron and Mikhail Sergachev. Other than that..... if not, well I dont think a trade could be done for both teams.

 

[Intangiblezz]

Pacioretty + Emelin + Andrighetto for Simmonds + Schenn?

Emelin for a few years while Provorov develops into a top 4 D isn't bad. Ghetto needs a legit chance and him and Read being the 2nd and 3rd line wingers is pretty good. I think he would do very well.

Value still probably favours Montreal but I think it is better than the OP.

 

[Tripod]

I bet Pacioretty suffers from Jeff Carter/Rick Nash Syndrome. Big, effortless skater who gets their points, but get ragged on for some reason. Their true value goes beyond traditional stats

The thing is, most times, fans of that team/player sees all the extra value that player brings that does not show up in just points. Like how Flyers fans would not trade Couts for Schenn or Simmonds in a theoretical deal.

But there were TONS of MTL fans ragging on MaxP last year. That was my point. But again, I do think MaxP has more value than Simmonds...just not by a ton like what some suggest.

Pacioretty + Emelin + Andrighetto for Simmonds + Schenn?

Emelin for a few years while Provorov develops into a top 4 D isn't bad. Ghetto needs a legit chance and him and Read being the 2nd and 3rd line wingers is pretty good. I think he would do very well.

Value still probably favours Montreal but I think it is better than the OP.

That is still awful.

We don't need Emelin at all. Sven is no better than Laughton at this point and is a year older. Thanks for trying "help" Philly out by taking 2 wingers who produce as 1st liners.

 

[Intangiblezz]

The thing is, most times, fans of that team/player sees all the extra value that player brings that does not show up in just points. Like how Flyers fans would not trade Couts for Schenn or Simmonds in a theoretical deal.

But there were TONS of MTL fans ragging on MaxP last year. That was my point. But again, I do think MaxP has more value than Simmonds...just not by a ton like what some suggest.



That is still awful.

We don't need Emelin at all. Sven is no better than Laughton at this point and is a year older. Thanks for trying "help" Philly out by taking 2 wingers who produce as 1st liners.

Never said I'm helping Philly. I do think Emelin + Ghetto is more useful than Desharnais + Bozon.

Pacioretty - Giroux - Voracek would give you probably the best first line in the NHL though.

 

[Snotbubbles]

look up their advanced stats, you'll see it really isnt close

Simmonds has value beyond stats. But really, no one is claiming Simmonds is better, only the difference isn't Brayden Schenn.

 

[flyersfan018]

Never said I'm helping Philly. I do think Emelin + Ghetto is more useful than Desharnais + Bozon.

Pacioretty - Giroux - Voracek would give you probably the best first line in the NHL though.

It would also give them the worst forward depth in the league.

 

[ponder719]

Never said I'm helping Philly.

If your proposed deal isn't helping us, why would you think we'd agree to it? You're right that Emelin & Andrighetto are better than Desharnais and Bozon in a vacuum, but that difference doesn't move the needle for us.

Functionally, the difference in value between Pacioretty and Simmonds is small enough that nothing Montreal would be willing to offer would cause us to also offer Schenn up in the same deal.

 

[Ruck Over]

Echoing Dilbert's post above.

Flyers fans interpret Pacioretty > Simmonds. But by adding Schenn, we're doubling our offer to Mtl. Thus, we'd expect Mtl to add something approximately worth 80%-87% the value of Max to the deal.

What non-collection of spare parts does Mtl want to add to reach that value gap?

 

[phlocky]

Echoing Dilbert's post above.

Flyers fans interpret Pacioretty > Simmonds. But by adding Schenn, we're doubling our offer to Mtl. Thus, we'd expect Mtl to add something approximately worth 80%-87% the value of Max to the deal.

What non-collection of spare parts does Mtl want to add to reach that value gap?

While I agree with everything you and pretty much everyone else is posting, I think this is going the wrong direction. Instead of the Habs adding the MaxP, the Flyers should be adding something to Simmonds OTHER than Schenn. The Flyers simply can't subtract 2 guys from the current forward depth and add just one top 6 winger, even one as good as Max. The Flyers would need another legit top 6 winger to replace Schenn and I just don't see the Habs having the right piece. Also, the Flyers have some good forward prospects so sending back another forward prospect that we either have to wait in or develop isn't the answer either.

To summarize, Simmonds plus Schenn for MaxP and lesser parts just doesn't work for the Flyers. Also, Simmonds plus Read/Raffl/Cousins/Laughton for MaxP doesn't work for the Habs.

Nice premise for a trade but just not one that can be made that is truly mutually beneficial to both teams

 

[Hockeypete49]

4/1 is a long way away

 

[Magua]

look up their advanced stats, you'll see it really isnt close

Except it is kinda close. The last two seasons their possession stats are basically the same, each at about +3% relative. Simmonds has a sizable edge in scoring chances though and sees tougher usage. Any Flyers fan will tell you that Simmonds has really improved his all-around game, especially in Hakstol's forechecking system.

 

[KingTux]

Tim Bozon is still a thing... ?

 

[Brock Radunske]

To Montreal: Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and 4th round pick 2018

vs

To Philly: Max Pacioretty, David Desharnais (Cap Dump), Tim Bozon



MTL POV: Simmonds could be the guy for the 2nd line with Gallagher, Schenn could play on the 1rst line or the 2nd with Plekanec. Both are physical and can score.


Philly POV: Pacioretty is a pure sniper who can play pk with a friendly contract plus Philly saves cash for the next year to come without Schenn on the cap. Desharnais can produce as 2nd line/3rd line center 40-50 pts for a 3.5M$ center isn't bad and only 1yr left at his contract. Bozon could have a chance as a Flyers.. good size, good hand but too much guy over him.

Another classic #habsdeals

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Definitely Pacioretty for Couturier + Morin

 

[Halla]

another terrible habs proposal

for our 64 pt winger, give us your 62 pt winger and 59 point center. also give us a 4th and you can have a cap dump and a C prospect.

I think the value would be a bit closer to

MTL:Simmonds + B prospect
PHI: Pacioretty

 

[Starat327]

Definitely Pacioretty for Couturier + Morin

Definitely no.

 

[Starat327]

another terrible habs proposal

for our 64 pt winger, give us your 62 pt winger and 59 point center. also give us a 4th and you can have a cap dump and a C prospect.

I think the value would be a bit closer to

MTL:Simmonds + B prospect
PHI: Pacioretty

Schenn hasn't been a center in a long time. But the rest is about right.

 

[ginovegas]

To Montreal: Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and 4th round pick 2018

vs

To Philly: Max Pacioretty, David Desharnais (Cap Dump), Tim Bozon



MTL POV: Simmonds could be the guy for the 2nd line with Gallagher, Schenn could play on the 1rst line or the 2nd with Plekanec. Both are physical and can score.


Philly POV: Pacioretty is a pure sniper who can play pk with a friendly contract plus Philly saves cash for the next year to come without Schenn on the cap. Desharnais can produce as 2nd line/3rd line center 40-50 pts for a 3.5M$ center isn't bad and only 1yr left at his contract. Bozon could have a chance as a Flyers.. good size, good hand but too much guy over him.

so let me get this straight, Habs have plenty of right wingers, Gallagher, Radulov, Shaw, Andrighetto and are very weak on the left side. So we would give up our only legitimate left winger to pick up 2 more right wingers lol