HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 3

[Miller Time]

Reasons to become more critical of the Habs GM:
1. A majority of his acquisitions are not progressing (Dach, Newhook, Barron)
2. His handpicked coach is not progressing
3. His non-sales have declined in performance and value (Monty, Savard, Matheson, Anderson)

Nonsense

1. Newhook has a career year last season. A rough start to this season does not indicate he isn't "progressing".
Barron is still ahead of the curve.
Dach has taken a step back after losing a year to injury. Your take is a gross exaggeration not grounded in realistic nhl player development progression.

2. Youngest team in the league competes hard every night and has shown positive signs of overall team play despite a very difficult start. Another assessment not grounded in the reality of NHL or pro sport coaching.

3. Monty "declined performance "? Again with the takes flat out disconnected from reality lol.
Anderson is playing his best hockey in years
Matheson had a career year last season and is still playing well above his salary.
Savard is 34. Did you expect him to improve as he aged lol
And all these "non-sales" criticisms, yet you also complain incessantly that the Habs should be adding vets.

Inconsistent takes so lacking in any factual grounding like this speaking to massive bias. Terrible post.

 

[The Real Timo]

Nonsense

1. Newhook has a career year last season. A rough start to this season does not indicate he isn't "progressing".
Barron is still ahead of the curve.
Dach has taken a step back after losing a year to injury. Your take is a gross exaggeration not grounded in realistic nhl player development progression.

2. Youngest team in the league competes hard every night and has shown positive signs of overall team play despite a very difficult start. Another assessment not grounded in the reality of NHL or pro sport coaching.

3. Monty "declined performance "? Again with the takes flat out disconnected from reality lol.
Anderson is playing his best hockey in years
Matheson had a career year last season and is still playing well above his salary.
Savard is 34. Did you expect him to improve as he aged lol
And all these "non-sales" criticisms, yet you also complain incessantly that the Habs should be adding vets.

Inconsistent takes so lacking in any factual grounding like this speaking to massive bias. Terrible post.

Well... if Habs Hockey Ops groups has the same take on things then this team will go nowhere... ever.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

- Winnipeg waived him when he was 25 for nothing.
- He was a third pairing D for 2 years on the Habs as a 26 and 27 year old with a weak right side on defence but never showed he was capable of playing big minutes in the top 4.
- He was traded for a 4th rounder, therefore pretty much every GMs in the whole league didn't see him as more than 3rd pairing or depth D or else there would've been a massive bidding war. On New Jersey he wasn't even brought in to be a regular D, but Nemec wasn't ready and due to injuries he was able to start in their top 6.

He's already back on the third pair and has played 16 minutes 4 of his last 5 games so reality is sitting back in for him.

 

[ReHabs]

Well... if Habs Hockey Ops groups has the same take on things then this team will go nowhere... ever.

The Habs compete hard every night. Barron is ahead of the curve. Matheson had a career year so the Habs shouldn't have sold him. The future is bright.

 

[Miller Time]

- Winnipeg waived him when he was 25 for nothing.
- He was a third pairing D for 2 years on the Habs as a 26 and 27 year old with a weak right side on defence but never showed he was capable of playing big minutes in the top 4.
- He was traded for a 4th rounder, therefore pretty much every GMs in the whole league didn't see him as more than 3rd pairing or depth D or else there would've been a massive bidding war. On New Jersey he wasn't even brought in to be a regular D, but Nemec wasn't ready and due to injuries he was able to start in their top 6.

He's already back on the third pair and has played 16 minutes 4 of his last 5 games so reality is sitting back in for him.

Yup.

And if he were here, struggling without being insulated by one of the top rosters in the league (with 4 players under 25 rather than 4 players over 25), we'd be seeing incessant posts from the usual suspects complaining that Hughes didn't trade him when his value was higher lol

Context and facts aren't a part of the assessment process for most hot takes

 

[The Real Timo]

The Habs compete hard every night. Barron is ahead of the curve. Matheson had a career year so the Habs shouldn't have sold him. The future is bright.

Sigh. Ok.

 

[Tyson]

- Winnipeg waived him when he was 25 for nothing.
- He was a third pairing D for 2 years on the Habs as a 26 and 27 year old with a weak right side on defence but never showed he was capable of playing big minutes in the top 4.
- He was traded for a 4th rounder, therefore pretty much every GMs in the whole league didn't see him as more than 3rd pairing or depth D or else there would've been a massive bidding war. On New Jersey he wasn't even brought in to be a regular D, but Nemec wasn't ready and due to injuries he was able to start in their top 6.

He's already back on the third pair and has played 16 minutes 4 of his last 5 games so reality is sitting back in for him.

All good points but we are playing some young LD on RD and it's hurting their Development. What was the rush in trading a 7th D? He was costing 767K.

 

[Naslundforever]

All good points but we are playing some young LD on RD and it's hurting their Development. What was the rush in trading a 7th D? He was costing 767K.

Remember when we were on the org’s back to get a center because habs had a stud goalie and a stud Def in Price and Subban? Well now they also need a stud RD and Goalie.

I think these guys need to learn to play and close out tight games; this is weird catch up / blowout hockey right now.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

All good points but we are playing some young LD on RD and it's hurting their Development. What was the rush in trading a 7th D? He was costing 767K.

My guess is Hughes wanted to give younger guys a look on the right side this year (Barron, Mailloux and Reinbacher), also at the time of the trade we also still had Harris who was able to play the right side.

Unfortunately Reinbacher got hurt a couple months later, Barron hasn't taken a step forward and Mailloux needs some additional seasoning in the AHL.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes wanted to do Kovacevic a favor and get him a better opportunity elsewhere in a contract year, rather than being in and out of the lineup.

 

[morhilane]

I think these guys need to learn to play and close out tight games; this is weird catch up / blowout hockey right now.

Right now the inability in closing games is mostly on coaching. MSL rarelly bother being strategic/tactical in his player deployment at the end of games.

 

[LaP]

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

31 management teams did not offer anything for him. There's two options. Those management teams don't have pro scouts or their pro scouts did not see anything either. Anyone who believe Kova would make this team significantly better is out for launch or don't watch games.

The reality is Primo sucks while last year he was as good as Monty. Dach is struggling to recover and is nowhere near Monahan. Newhook sucks ***. Matheson is not as good as last year. Savard as predicted by me did hit the mid 30ies wall.

But at the end of the day all those things do not really matter because none of those players were going to be making our core once the rebuild is done. It's a step back like NJ last year or Colorado in 2016-2017. It happens all the time with young teams. There's nothing special about this for people who actually watch the NHL.

Most of the players drafted in the last 3 years are still not in the NHL. It will be time to panic once those guys are 22 and still don't contribute to our future core. For now people are panicking for absolutely no f***ing reason.

 

[salbutera]

I think the plan was for Newhook to become the 3rd line center and replace Dvorak and, at the end of last season, he was looking fine at center. No idea what is the problem this season.

Dvorak is 100% gone, even if not traded, I never got the impression he wanted to stay here.

Savard is done, if Hughes tries to extend/re-sign him, he's just clueless.

Armia will have value at the TDL for a playoffs team who needs to improve their PK.
Evans will be the most sought after commodity at the TDL on the Habs line-up.

I expect Matheson to get extended at this point...

I think the plan has become "do like Buffalo" this off-season, that is replace vets leaving by young prospects.

Sitting in the wrong chair: no 2nd line offense to provide protection combined with shuffling between 2nd line and now 1st line?

Now, that would be a big red flag on Hughes for me. Guhle and Hutson more or less proved they can play top4 minutes. Plus we still have Xhekaj, Struble and Engstrom in pipeline for LHD. We need stabilizing RHD and not high-risk LHD.

What would that say about Gorton’s role, especially after talking heads came out last week and said it’s Gorton who has all the player discussions with teams..

 

[LaP]

- Winnipeg waived him when he was 25 for nothing.
- He was a third pairing D for 2 years on the Habs as a 26 and 27 year old with a weak right side on defence but never showed he was capable of playing big minutes in the top 4.
- He was traded for a 4th rounder, therefore pretty much every GMs in the whole league didn't see him as more than 3rd pairing or depth D or else there would've been a massive bidding war. On New Jersey he wasn't even brought in to be a regular D, but Nemec wasn't ready and due to injuries he was able to start in their top 6.

He's already back on the third pair and has played 16 minutes 4 of his last 5 games so reality is sitting back in for him.

NHL GMs saw him as a 7th dman à la Drewiske. A 3rd pairing RHD with size is worth at least a 2nd round pick and NHL GMs would have lineup up to acquire him.

I'll make a prediction and i'm 99% sure i'll be right. In less than 3 years Kova will be a clear as day 6th/7th dman again. People again panic for the career year season by a depth player at the end of his 20ies. Let's see how Kova do next season before we anoint him the next Souray.

The same thing happened with Kempny. Was a nothing burger player for the Hawks. Was traded to caps and for a year and a half was a solid top 4ish dman for them. Then boom was sent to the AHL and went to Europe. He's still playing BTW in the Czech. There's countless examples.

 

[HabzSauce]

Not to mention that it's rare for a team to hit rock bottom (dead last) with a roster that is cap maxed with vets mostly on long term deals.

Petry, Hoffman, Gallagher, Anderson, Armia, Dvorak, Savard, Chiarot, Toffoli... 38M$

Plus ltir Price & Weber. 18M$

It's as if some fans have a complete memory gap of just how bad the organization situation was 3 years ago.

Now we've got one of the best U25 & groups in the league, a good cap situation that is going to get better and better the next 2 summers, and a vastly improved reputation.

Future is bright

Sure it was darker back then and Hugo has cleaned up most of the mess, but not sure I agree with you that future is bright.

I wouldn't even say we have one of the best U25 groups in the league. They're all depth players. Who in our group besides demidov has elite potential? Maybe Hage that's it?

Too many holes this team has right now to be confident they're on the right track. A losing culture is also something they have to fix and we know by now that's easier said than done.

Future has POTENTIAL to be bright. I want to see how they handle 2025 draft + summer. That will be huge turning point for us. We have the assets to wheel and deal but Hugo gotta make the right moves. Can't afford to lose assets for more duds like Dach/Barron/Newhook

 

[LaP]

Sure it was darker back then and Hugo has cleaned up most of the mess, but not sure I agree with you that future is bright.

I wouldn't even say we have one of the best U25 groups in the league. They're all depth players. Who in our group besides demidov has elite potential? Maybe Hage that's it?

Too many holes this team has right now to be confident they're on the right track. A losing culture is also something they have to fix and we know by now that's easier said than done.

Future has POTENTIAL to be bright. I want to see how they handle 2025 draft + summer. That will be huge turning point for us. We have the assets to wheel and deal but Hugo gotta make the right moves. Can't afford to lose assets for more duds like Dach/Barron/Newhook

Maybe Demidov ... so basically only Connor Bedard has the potential to be elite? I think you mix potential with surefire.

 

[HabzSauce]

Maybe Demidov ... so basically only Conar Bedard has the potential to be elite?

Did you mean to say Hage?

 

[LaP]

Did you mean to say Hage?

I misread your post still i'd say Hage, Hutson and Slaf definitely all have the poential to be elite. I've not seen reinbacher enough to pass a judgement. Are they surefire elite in the making like Bedard? No. But the raw potential is there. Not many players in the history of the league did 50 points before their d+3 season. I checked the other day and it was less than 100 if i remember corectly. Too many people around here dismiss how hard it is to do 50 points as a 19 years old.

 

[morhilane]

Sitting in the wrong chair: no 2nd line offense to provide protection combined with shuffling between 2nd line and now 1st line?

Newhook was tried as 2nd line winger, 3rd/2nd line center and now 1st winger and he didn't fit anywhere this year. He couldn't even do a proper puck dump at the start of the season (that got a bit better at least).

It's like his brain is turned off during games outside basic things. It's wierd.

 

[teamfirst]

Future is bright

Que será, será
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que será, será
What will be, will be

 

[WeThreeKings]

Also it's well documented that St Louis was Montgomery's ideal destination. There is no way he would have come here with the Blues courting him.

Maybe Tourigny will become available at some point.

Even Tourigny is cut from the similar cloth of guys we've had before. I don't think anyone is chomping at the bit to get Tourigny in the organization.

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

He's a bottom pair depth guy. Management knew they had to cut bait with the defenseman because of how Struble played, and what they expected would be a healthy Reinbacher, a better camp from Mailloux, progression from Barron, etc.

Keeping Kovacevic would mean either waiving Xhekaj or sending down Struble without earning the demotion or waiving Justin Barron.

Rebuilding teams are not going to waive the Justin Barron's of the world unless they absolutely have to and absolutely have to is not keeping Jonathan Kovacevic.

We had the dude. We played the dude. We finished bottom 5 with the dude. He doesn't change a thing.

 

[Theodore450]

Nonsense

1. Newhook has a career year last season. A rough start to this season does not indicate he isn't "progressing".
Barron is still ahead of the curve.
Dach has taken a step back after losing a year to injury. Your take is a gross exaggeration not grounded in realistic nhl player development progression.

2. Youngest team in the league competes hard every night and has shown positive signs of overall team play despite a very difficult start. Another assessment not grounded in the reality of NHL or pro sport coaching.

3. Monty "declined performance "? Again with the takes flat out disconnected from reality lol.
Anderson is playing his best hockey in years
Matheson had a career year last season and is still playing well above his salary.
Savard is 34. Did you expect him to improve as he aged lol
And all these "non-sales" criticisms, yet you also complain incessantly that the Habs should be adding vets.

Inconsistent takes so lacking in any factual grounding like this speaking to massive bias. Terrible post.

It’s so hard to have conversation if we can’t find middle ground.

Saying things like “Barron is ahead of the curve” tells a lot

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

Ask yourself this question every time somebody says we should dump Baron.

 

[Theodore450]

Even Tourigny is cut from the similar cloth of guys we've had before. I don't think anyone is chomping at the bit to get Tourigny in the organization.



He's a bottom pair depth guy. Management knew they had to cut bait with the defenseman because of how Struble played, and what they expected would be a healthy Reinbacher, a better camp from Mailloux, progression from Barron, etc.

Keeping Kovacevic would mean either waiving Xhekaj or sending down Struble without earning the demotion or waiving Justin Barron.

Rebuilding teams are not going to waive the Justin Barron's of the world unless they absolutely have to and absolutely have to is not keeping Jonathan Kovacevic.

We had the dude. We played the dude. We finished bottom 5 with the dude. He doesn't change a thing.

It’s on him to not realize that Barron was dogshit for 3 years. Like brother, watch the games and trade him if he’s not good

 

[LaP]

We had the dude. We played the dude. We finished bottom 5 with the dude. He doesn't change a thing.

Amen.

 

[LaP]

It’s on him to not realize that Barron was dogshit for 3 years. Like brother, watch the games and trade him if he’s not good

Kovacevic was not good when he was Baron's age. I don't disagree with you that saying "Barron is ahead of the curve" is at best a wierd thing to say but pretending that a rebuilding team should dump Barron to keep Kavacevic is not any better. There's not a single rebuilding team in the history of hockey who would have kept Kovacevic over Barron.