MMA General Discussion and Fight Announcements 7.0

[BGDDYKWL]

There's really no reason to have Cormier fight Jones for a 3rd time

We've seen how that song and dance goes

I think there's some added intrigue at HW. At 205 I would tend to agree with you, but DC is better at HW. Will Jones also be better? There are enough variables there to still make that fight very interesting.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I love the Jones/Stipe and DC/Brock on the same card idea, with the winners fighting, but it's a little risky if Jones loses, just from a financial perspective.

On a sidenote, Brock looks MUCH smaller than ever, and, while it was a HUGE paycheck, he is signed for another match with WWE and still doesn't have a UFC contract in place to my knowledge. I'm beginning to feel like it's less of a guarantee that he does in fact return.

 

[Neutrinos]

I think there's some added intrigue at HW. At 205 I would tend to agree with you, but DC is better at HW. Will Jones also be better? There are enough variables there to still make that fight very interesting.

Sure, a fight at heavyweight is somewhat interesting, but it pales in comparison to the other options available:

Jones vs Rumble at 205
Jones vs Rumble at HW
Jones vs Stipe

 

[m9]

I love the Jones/Stipe and DC/Brock on the same card idea, with the winners fighting, but it's a little risky if Jones loses, just from a financial perspective.

On a sidenote, Brock looks MUCH smaller than ever, and, while it was a HUGE paycheck, he is signed for another match with WWE and still doesn't have a UFC contract in place to my knowledge. I'm beginning to feel like it's less of a guarantee that he does in fact return.

Him looking much smaller would indicate to me he's off steroids and is actually serious about the UFC.

 

[Avs_19]

So Dana White this morning said that Jon Jones isn't fighting until 2019 because he's a bit "heavy".

Truth or just a swerve before the press conference? I found the "heavy" term interesting, maybe he's alluding to a HW fight. It would be really strange for them to hold off on this UFC230 main event, have Jones cleared for the exact time frame needed, then not have him fight.

He made the rounds and said the same thing to everyone about Jones not fighting at MSG. He has flat out lied previously about this kind of stuff but I feel like they would've announced something today. If Jones really is too heavy but it's good weight, this could've been the perfect time to have him fight at HW. Stipe wants his rematch but he'd probably get up for a fight vs. Jones to determine the #1 contender.

If Dana's telling the truth, I guess this means it's Woodley vs. Covington or Joanna vs. Valentina at MSG?

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Him looking much smaller would indicate to me he's off steroids and is actually serious about the UFC.

Yeah that makes sense in terms of USADA, what doesn't add up for me is he has been looking increasingly smaller now for a little over a year, and just re-entered the testing pool two months ago. Maybe he wasn't planning on a UFC return until very recently, but if it were me I would've been juiced to the gills up til like May/June.

 

[Avs_19]

Holloway vs. Ortega (not official yet) and Joanna vs. Valentina will be a damn good top of the card for Toronto.

Dana also said Woodley vs. Covington could possibly happen at MSG but he highly doubts it.

 

[pistolpete11]

As for UFC 230, Dana insists Jones isn't fighting. Well, at least in the main event.

If they didn't announce it today, you have to assume it's an underwhelming main event.

Or they don't want to take any of the day's spotlight off of Conor. Or maybe there is still some legal stuff before they can announce Jones.

I still think it's Jones. My prediction is still DC-Jones 3 at HW. The opponent is just a guess/hope, but I'll be shocked if it's not Jones. The timing and mysteriousness of it all just doesn't make sense if it's not Jones.

I think there's some added intrigue at HW. At 205 I would tend to agree with you, but DC is better at HW. Will Jones also be better? There are enough variables there to still make that fight very interesting.

If it happens at UFC 230, I think DC-Jones 3 at HW would be the biggest non-Conor, non-UFC100 PPV ever. It might even pass some of those. Bad blood. Different weight class. Jones' comeback. All of the craziness around the USADA stuff. MSG. Great card. Belt on the line. Brock fight on the line. DC's legacy on the line.

Sure, a fight at heavyweight is somewhat interesting, but it pales in comparison to the other options available:

Jones vs Rumble at 205
Jones vs Rumble at HW
Jones vs Stipe

I don't think Rumble is ever going back to 205.

I also think Jones-DC at HW outsells all of those.

Holloway vs. Ortega (not official yet) and Joanna vs. Valentina will be a damn good top of the card for Toronto.

Dana also said Woodley vs. Covington could possibly happen at MSG but he highly doubts it.

It's the fight that needed to happen. Max-Ortega better get done for that card, though. As good of a fight as Joanna-Valentina is, it would struggle to sell if it was the main event.

 

[m9]

He made the rounds and said the same thing to everyone about Jones not fighting at MSG. He has flat out lied previously about this kind of stuff but I feel like they would've announced something today. If Jones really is too heavy but it's good weight, this could've been the perfect time to have him fight at HW. Stipe wants his rematch but he'd probably get up for a fight vs. Jones to determine the #1 contender.

If Dana's telling the truth, I guess this means it's Woodley vs. Covington or Joanna vs. Valentina at MSG?

So with Joanna v Valentina at UFC 231, I believe every main and co-main is pretty set with the exception of UFC230 and the UFC232 co-main. Fight options are:

Woodley v Covington
Cejudo v Dillashaw (or a Cejudo defense and Dillashaw defense)
Cormier v Miocic 2?
Rose v whoever (Andrade?)
Gus v Jones

I think Gus v Jones will headline either January/February PPV, with Cormier/Lesnar taking the other slot. Doesn't really matter which way you do it, but if you let Cormier fight Lesnar first you can let him show up with two belts and then strip him before the Jones/Gus fight.

Rose v Andrade or Cejudo v Dillashaw would be excellent fits as a co-main for UFC232. You either have the double female angle (main & co-main) or 2 champ v champ fights. Either way, you're good. I would give Rose the slot.

To me, that leaves these as options for UFC230:

Woodley v Covington (Seems the most likely at this point)
Dillashaw v Cejudo (A very underwhelming choice as a main event in my opinion)
Cormier v Miocic 2 (This is the fight that someone I trust told me was going to happen at UFC230, which is why I've been sticking with it for weeks. Admittedly it seems very, very unlikely)

I think they could still add a co-main as well, but if one of those 3 fights isn't the main even of UFC230 I will be very surprised.

 

[m9]

Or they don't want to take any of the day's spotlight off of Conor. Or maybe there is still some legal stuff before they can announce Jones.

I still think it's Jones. My prediction is still DC-Jones 3 at HW. The opponent is just a guess/hope, but I'll be shocked if it's not Jones. The timing and mysteriousness of it all just doesn't make sense if it's not Jones.


If it happens at UFC 230, I think DC-Jones 3 at HW would be the biggest non-Conor, non-UFC100 PPV ever. It might even pass some of those. Bad blood. Different weight class. Jones' comeback. All of the craziness around the USADA stuff. MSG. Great card. Belt on the line. Brock fight on the line. DC's legacy on the line.


I don't think Rumble is ever going back to 205.

I also think Jones-DC at HW outsells all of those.


It's the fight that needed to happen. Max-Ortega better get done for that card, though. As good of a fight as Joanna-Valentina is, it would struggle to sell if it was the main event.

At this point if it's DC/Jones 3 at HW I will give lots of credit to Dana White for the swerve. I agree that the timing with Jones doesn't add up otherwise. I think it's more likely we get Woodley/Covington with Jones/Miocic as a co-main than there is we get Jones/DC 3.

Agreed Rumble isn't going to 205.

And I think Max/Ortega is already basically confirmed for that card.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I understand after losing to the champ twice generally your best course of action is to change weight classes, but I don't agree in Joanna's case. Two reasons. The first being I don't see Rose being this unbeatable dominant champ. She loses, Joanna would be right in line for another title shot. The second is quite simply Joanna, while reasonably tall for 115, is pretty lean, Shevchenko managed to take Holm down, and Holm was as powerful in the clinch as Ronda and Cyborg. Shevchenko is going to manhandle Joanna. I feel like this was one of those instances where her coaches are trying to build up her confidence rather than giving her actual constructive advice. I don't see this ending well for her.

 

[m9]

I understand after losing to the champ twice generally your best course of action is to change weight classes, but I don't agree in Joanna's case. Two reasons. The first being I don't see Rose being this unbeatable dominant champ. She loses, Joanna would be right in line for another title shot. The second is quite simply Joanna, while reasonably tall for 115, is pretty lean, Shevchenko managed to take Holm down, and Holm was as powerful in the clinch as Ronda and Cyborg. Shevchenko is going to manhandle Joanna. I feel like this was one of those instances where her coaches are trying to build up her confidence rather than giving her actual constructive advice. I don't see this ending well for her.

I like Shevchenko to win this fight as well, but I don't think Joanna has much to lose here. She wasn't going to get the next title shot at 115lbs so she can take her chances for the 125lb belt and if it goes poorly she can jump back to 115lb and hope that Andrade beats Rose.

Also, anytime a fighter has struggled with weight cuts like Joanna has it's worth seeing how they fare one division up where they aren't so drained for the fight.

 

[m9]

Well, Woodley is out with an injury so it won't be him at UFC 230.

So either they're lying about Jones, doing Cejudo/Dillashaw, or something else with DC. Or they have something completely out of left field.

 

[pistolpete11]

I understand after losing to the champ twice generally your best course of action is to change weight classes, but I don't agree in Joanna's case. Two reasons. The first being I don't see Rose being this unbeatable dominant champ. She loses, Joanna would be right in line for another title shot. The second is quite simply Joanna, while reasonably tall for 115, is pretty lean, Shevchenko managed to take Holm down, and Holm was as powerful in the clinch as Ronda and Cyborg. Shevchenko is going to manhandle Joanna. I feel like this was one of those instances where her coaches are trying to build up her confidence rather than giving her actual constructive advice. I don't see this ending well for her.

I agree Valentina should be a huge favorite. She's the bigger girl, had a ton of success at a weight class that was too big for her, and most importantly, she beat Joanna 3 times in Muay Thai.

It's not a good matchup for Joanna, but as m9 said, there's not a lot to lose for her. It's the biggest fight she can make right now while she waits for something to change with the top of the 115lb division. If she wins, that's great. If she loses, she says it's not her weight class and she goes back down to 115. She said even if she wins the 125 belt, she wants to fight at 115 again anyway.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Virtually nothing for Joanna to lose, that is true. I think taking a beating hurts her stock a little, but given the payday it's still probably worth it.

On a sidenote, and not to completely derail the thread, but is anyone not stoked that Jones is back? I know I'm openly very anti-USADA, but whether you like or hate the guy, I feel like any sort of multi-year suspension would have ultimately just been a loss for everyone.

 

[Avs_19]

Well, Woodley is out with an injury so it won't be him at UFC 230.

So either they're lying about Jones, doing Cejudo/Dillashaw, or something else with DC. Or they have something completely out of left field.

I wonder at what point does Diaz vs. Poirier just get bumped to a 5 round main event.

 

[pistolpete11]

If not Jones, could it be another comeback? Anderson? Cain? Nick Diaz?

 

[pistolpete11]

Just to keep my DC-Jones 3 at HW prediction alive, I saw the broadcast team for UFC 229 is Anik, Rogan, and Cruz...because you know...DC's in the gym getting ready for UFC 230.

 

[Avs_19]

Good Bellator card this weekend with Mousasi vs. Rory as the main event.

 

[m9]

Good Bellator card this weekend with Mousasi vs. Rory as the main event.

Yeah.

Going to get my money's worth out of DAZN the next couple of months between NFL & Bellator. The Joshua fight was great on the weekend too.

 

[Avs_19]

Dana has been against this previously and I'm not sure if his stance has changed at all but there has been quite a bit of talk online about a 165 lb division recently.

 

[m9]

Dana has been against this previously and I'm not sure if his stance has changed at all but there has been quite a bit of talk online about a 165 lb division recently.

It only makes sense if they moved WW up to 175 lbs.

 

[Avs_19]

It only makes sense if they moved WW up to 175 lbs.

Yeah. That'd probably be something that benefits Woodley and others too.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dana has been against this previously and I'm not sure if his stance has changed at all but there has been quite a bit of talk online about a 165 lb division recently.

Having 2 15lb jumps in divisions in the weight range where you have the most athletic athletes never made sense to me. It's just forcing guys to diminish themselves to make a lower weight class or be at a disadvantage against much bigger guys.

Not to mention how exciting the shakeup would be initially. At 165, you could have Dustin, Nate, Lee, RDA, Masvidal, Cowboy, etc. Probably eventually Conor, Khabib, and/or Tony. At 175, you'd still have Woodley, a less diminished Till, Gastelum, Whittaker, Usman, Wonderboy etc. If 155 clears out a bit, maybe Max and Ortega would move up sooner (I think they are both destined for 155 at some point in the not too distant future anyway). Maybe Zabit, too.

Part of me wants to see 195, too, but part of me thinks that would diminish 205, too much. Once you get up in those heavier weights, there's less of a pool of athletic guys to get good fighters.

 

[Neutrinos]

There should definitely be weight classes at 10 pound intervals