OT: MLB Thread 2025

[Beliveau]

@Filthy Dangles made some great points. One knucklehead claimed Gwynn never faced a 90 mph fastball.

Wanna know if you know anything about baseball? If you do, you know it's physically impossible for PEDs to help your fastball.

If you think Bonds was a great HR hitter, you know nothing. If you look at his stats for the first half of his career, he had average power for an OF and averaged roughly 26 HRs a season. His last clean season he hit 25 hrs. The next season he hit 45 hrs.

 

[nyr2k2]

Who had on their bingo card that the pitching and bullpen would be even better than before to carry the team that supposedly is loaded with offense to a bunch of low-scoring one-run wins?

Ryne Stanek is the basically been the guy that's been discussed for the past several pages, a random guy who has been completely anonymous for basically his whole career and yet he throws 99 with this big bendy slider at 90. 30 years ago he'd be an absolute sideshow.

 

[will1066]

Ryne Stanek is the basically been the guy that's been discussed for the past several pages, a random guy who has been completely anonymous for basically his whole career and yet he throws 99 with this big bendy slider at 90. 30 years ago he'd be an absolute sideshow.

Born in St Louis, went to school in Arkansas. LOOKS about right.

Oh yeah, best Ryne since Sandberg.

 

[nyr2k2]

@Filthy Dangles made some great points. One knucklehead claimed Gwynn never faced a 90 mph fastball.

Wanna know if you know anything about baseball? If you do, you know it's physically impossible for PEDs to help your fastball.

If you think Bonds was a great HR hitter, you know nothing. If you look at his stats for the first half of his career, he had average power for an OF and averaged roughly 26 HRs a season. His last clean season he hit 25 hrs. The next season he hit 45 hrs.

I know we've had literally this exact same argument about Bonds, but I'll reiterate the "averaged 26 home runs" thing is...somewhat misleading?

From age 21-24: 21 HR average
From age 25-34: 36 HR average
From age 35-39: 51 HR average

The prime of his career he absolutely was not average in the power department. Only in his early 20s was that accurate. The steroid years were ridiculous, no denying that.

If he retired before that '99 season which is when the steroid use supposedly began, this would be his career: 411 HR, 445 SB, .290/.411/.556, 164 OPS+, 3 MVPs, 8 Gold Gloves, 8 All Star games, 7 Silver Sluggers, and he'd have been the only player with 400 HR/400 SB. It's not even about the power numbers with Bonds; he was just the epitome of the complete player.

I recognize that you have a hate boner for the guy, but he was an absolute phenom and was easily on pace to make the HOF before he made the stupid decision to tarnish his legacy in the eyes of some.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

@Filthy Dangles made some great points. One knucklehead claimed Gwynn never faced a 90 mph fastball.

Wanna know if you know anything about baseball? If you do, you know it's physically impossible for PEDs to help your fastball.

If you think Bonds was a great HR hitter, you know nothing. If you look at his stats for the first half of his career, he had average power for an OF and averaged roughly 26 HRs a season. His last clean season he hit 25 hrs. The next season he hit 45 hrs.

I don't even know what the f*** this is lol.

No one said that Gwynn never faced a 90 MPH fastball but that most guys he faced didn't throw 90+. Thats a fact. Reading comprehension is f***ing important.

PEDs can't help your fastball? The hell are you talking about?

Do you know how one can learn to throw faster?

A. Get stronger
B. Move faster

PED's can aid both (Plus recovery, holding your stuff later into games, etc.)

Barry Bonds had 3 MVPs and multiple GG's before he even touched a PED. He was a HOF lock and should get in anyway after they elected Ortiz.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The literal human cheat code. As roided up as he was, the guy was still incredibly talented. His 2004 season with a 1.422 OPS is nuts.

View attachment 1008440

This is probably my favorite stat from his 2004 season.

 

[80s Kid]

View attachment 1008671

This is probably my favorite stat from his 2004 season.

Crazy stuff.

I believe he was also intentionally walked twice with the bases loaded if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't even know what the f*** this is lol.

No one said that Gwynn never faced a 90 MPH fastball but that most guys he faced didn't throw 90+. Thats a fact. Reading comprehension is f***ing important.

PEDs can't help your fastball? The hell are you talking about?

Do you know how one can learn to throw faster?

A. Get stronger
B. Move faster

PED's can aid both (Plus recovery, holding your stuff later into games, etc.)

Barry Bonds had 3 MVPs and multiple GG's before he even touched a PED. He was a HOF lock and should get in anyway after they elected Ortiz.

Electing Ortiz should have opened the door for every PED guy.

Ortiz was on more lists than Santa could write and he's the only PED guy that gets in because he's funny sometimes.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Electing Ortiz should have opened the door for every PED guy.

Ortiz was on more lists than Santa could write and he's the only PED guy that gets in because he's funny sometimes.

Isn't this actually false though? AFAIK and can see, his name only surfaced in that infamous 2003 unofficial survey test (to which many people have raised issues with the testing)

He wan't named in BALCO and never failed an official MLB PED test. I'm not saying he wasn't on something at some point, he probably was, like a lot of guys back then, but that seems to be it for him.

 

[Machinehead]

Isn't this actually false though? AFAIK and can see, his name only surfaced in that infamous 2003 unofficial survey test (to which many people have raised issues with the testing)

He wan't named in BALCO and never failed an official MLB PED test. I'm not saying he wasn't on something at some point, he probably was, like a lot of guys back then, but that seems to be it for him.

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Gary Sheffield also never failed an official test and we don't have anything besides them being named in reports. Roger Clemens went to court over denying the report, and won! (Sheffield admitted it, but only after -I think- his eligibility had run out anyway.)

But those three guys were pricks to the media, especially Bonds and Clemens, while Ortiz turned on the charm.

Maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but like, c'mon. We all know Ortiz did it and he's the only one with any smoke from that era who got in.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Gary Sheffield also never failed an official test and we don't have anything besides them being named in reports. Roger Clemens went to court over denying the report, and won! (Sheffield admitted it, but only after -I think- his eligibility had run out anyway.)

But those three guys were pricks to the media, especially Bonds and Clemens, while Ortiz turned on the charm.

Maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but like, c'mon. We all know Ortiz did it and he's the only one with any smoke from that era who got in.

Pudge is the other guy with smoke who got in first ballot though he never appeared on any list and was never affiliated with any PED distributor, he just lost 30+ lbs in an offseason and hoped that no one noticed.

There have been guys who have had to wait their turn because of suspicion, with Piazza being the most obvious example.

But yeah no one magically goes from being a middling platoon player to elite in their late 20's with out extra help. Outlier years happen, outlier decades do not.

FTR, I don't really have a problem with players (especially from that era) juicing. The reality is that a ton of guys were and had I been in Ortiz's position - on my way out of the league and probably on my way to getting a real job in the not to distant future vs making a f*** load of money and having the flexibility to set up my family for generations and being able to f*** off at 40, I would have needled the f*** up too. What ever a grown adult wants to put into their body is their business, they know what the potential consequences are.

The double standard is what I have the issue with. There are even better players who also sauced. No need to keep them out any longer when you've already opened that door.

 

[hoglund]

I can't believe how badly Jordon Romano has had such a poor start with a 15.75 era after 4 innings pitched. I know that's a very small sample size, but maybe the BlueJays did the right thing by not signing him.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Gary Sheffield also never failed an official test and we don't have anything besides them being named in reports. Roger Clemens went to court over denying the report, and won! (Sheffield admitted it, but only after -I think- his eligibility had run out anyway.)

But those three guys were pricks to the media, especially Bonds and Clemens, while Ortiz turned on the charm.

Maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but like, c'mon. We all know Ortiz did it and he's the only one with any smoke from that era who got in.

That's just not true...Clemens and Bonds were also involved in BALCO. And there was serious physical evidence against them like needles filled with anabolic steroids with their DNA on the end of them. And steroids and HGH bottles with their names on them etc....

It's simply not a case of those guys beaing 'meanies' while Ortiz wasn't. There's way more evidence and smoke of PED use with those guys than David Ortiz, if were being real...

Thsoe guys also played in 80 and 90's where that stuff was swept under the rug and not even tested for. Ortiz play in the 00's and 2010's where the testing and protocols were way ramped up.

Simple fact is if were being honest, there's simply way less evidence of him than those 2 with PED use.

 

[Bob Richards]

I've always been one to firmly believe that the game evolves, but also firmly believe that the greats would adapt.

This is where I reside too. I think the cream of the crop guys transcend their era and would succeed anywhere. That’s why they feel “immortal” to me.

I think Gywnn’s intelligence and vision would still make him an exceptional player in 2025, it’s just that it would look different. He wouldn’t flirt with a .375 batting average every year and would certainly strikeout more than 10 times a season, but he’d probably make up for it elsewhere.

The same amount of water poured into a different sized vase.

 

[sbjnyc]

I've seen some big beasts top out at 105 and that's on rare occasions. I think 108 is probably beyond human arms.

But I do think he threw hard and with a lot of fuzz as they say -- which is the norm now.

I've always been one to firmly believe that the game evolves, but also firmly believe that the greats would adapt.

Bingo, show me arnold palmer with today's clubs vs tiger woods with woods made out of wood. How does Ovi with a flat wooden stick fare against Plante with modern goalie equipment? Comparing players of different eras works both ways.

 

[sbjnyc]

I don't think it's that Aroldis Chapman or Chris Sale are throwing harder than Nolan Ryan.

It's that Bob Diaz comes in to pitch the 5th inning for the Colorado Rockies and he's throwing a 99 MPH slider. Mop-up guys like that used to throw 87.

It's not that the top, top guys are better, it's that EVERYONE has overwhelming stuff.

Hitting has changed too. Could Tony Gwynn replicate what he used to do? ...probably. I don't think there's any pitching he couldn't adapt to. The thing is, though, every coach in the world would be in his ear to drop 30 points off his average to hit 10 more homers.

The velocities are up today but they are not up 10 mph across the board. An interview with Seaver was on the pitching ninja video - he was saying that ryan threw hardest but not much harder than the rest of the rotation (referring to 69 mets). But again I don't think you're crediting the fact that the radar speeds from the 40+ years ago were significantly understating the actual velo. Greg maddox with his mid-high 80s fastball was probably really throwing 93-94 - plus in interviews he said he could throw harder (he did early in his career) but his coaches encouraged ball movement and changing speeds.

The approach to the game changed across the eras. Humans physiology did not evolve to throw better in the last 50 years. Players adapt to what they face. Gwynn faced maddox 100+ times and never struck out. If he faced harder throwers he'd have adapted to that. Judging him assuming he time travels 40 years is silly.

Your comment about how he would be impacted by coaches is a very good one. If his coaching changes his approach for more power then he'd probably wind up striking out a bit more. But if I ran a team there'd always be a spot open for a guy like 1980s/90s tony gwynn even if he bats 7th.

 

[romba]

Yanks getting shut down against above average pitching a story as old as time (2017)

 

[NickyFotiu]

The velocities are up today but they are not up 10 mph across the board. An interview with Seaver was on the pitching ninja video - he was saying that ryan threw hardest but not much harder than the rest of the rotation (referring to 69 mets). But again I don't think you're crediting the fact that the radar speeds from the 40+ years ago were significantly understating the actual velo. Greg maddox with his mid-high 80s fastball was probably really throwing 93-94 - plus in interviews he said he could throw harder (he did early in his career) but his coaches encouraged ball movement and changing speeds.

The approach to the game changed across the eras. Humans physiology did not evolve to throw better in the last 50 years. Players adapt to what they face. Gwynn faced maddox 100+ times and never struck out. If he faced harder throwers he'd have adapted to that. Judging him assuming he time travels 40 years is silly.

Your comment about how he would be impacted by coaches is a very good one. If his coaching changes his approach for more power then he'd probably wind up striking out a bit more. But if I ran a team there'd always be a spot open for a guy like 1980s/90s tony gwynn even if he bats 7th.

Your 40 year statement had me look up Tony. He played till 2001 but I didn't remember he died only 13 years later. That is too soon

 

[Jack Hanson]

I'm at the Mets game its cold but having a blast

 

[will1066]

Octavio Dotel was one of the people killed in the Dominican Republic club roof collapse.

 

[nyr2k2]

Octavio Dotel was one of the people killed in the Dominican Republic club roof collapse.

Such a tragedy. When you see the pictures of the night club, it's hard to believe anyone survived it. My condolences to his family.

I remember being annoyed that we traded him because I thought he might be a star. Although I was also happy that we got rid of Roger Cedeno.

 

[will1066]

Such a tragedy. When you see the pictures of the night club, it's hard to believe anyone survived it. My condolences to his family.

I remember being annoyed that we traded him because I thought he might be a star. Although I was also happy that we got rid of Roger Cedeno.

Roger Cedeno oof. He had the wheels, just couldn't hit for shit.

Such a senseless way to go for Dotel and others in that tragedy

 

[Kane One]

Along with Dotel, Nelson Cruz’s sister and a one-season MLB player Tony Blanco also died.

 

[Beliveau]

The Braves are 1-8. How?

Idk how he's still in MLB, but If you look at his career which includes a negative bWAR, Mark Leiter is not an MLB player.

 

[JimmyG89]

I know the talk about Judge's start was warranted, but Alonso is nearly matching him. It's a dream start for a guy that waited a long time for his deal this winter.

Then the Vlad news on top of it, Cohen might have to open up the purse again this winter for Alonso. Maybe even the best thing going for him, Soto wants him on the team.

He won't stay this hot, but the questions about opting out are going to happen. Wonder if they go back to the table in season and rip up that option with a new extension.