NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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OT: MLB Thread 2024
- Thread starter Bob Richards
- Start date
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I think the widely accepted year that Bonds began using was 1999, when he already had 400+ HR, 450+ SB, about 100 bWAR, etc. So, yeah, the "kids" would be right in their assessment if that's the case. Had he called it quits then, he's likely in the HOF today.
The tangible and anecdotal evidence points to 1999, and the narrative is that he was jealous of the McGwire/Sosa chase from the year prior.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
This. Bonds was definitely a HoFer pre-steroids/1999. To say otherwise is silly. All those stats, along with three MVP, 8 GG and 7 SS. Still hit above 300 in 6 seasons and close to it in 3 others. Led either the NL (and sometimes AL) in SLG/OBP and OPS. Insane pre-steroids career.
And IDGAF about the steroid use either. Steroids don't help your ability to hit a ball, just hit it harder. And he hit the ball VERY well. Even if he didn't take steroids, he'd still have a HoF career and probably still be one of the greatest of all time.
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Bonds did things on the field that have never been done before. Jucied or not (and he was a first ballot guy before he even started juicing, like @nyr2k2 said he was a 100 WAR player before 1999) the narrative to keep steroid users out died once Ortiz was voted in.
1986-92: Barry Bonds 10th in HRs, 11th. Danny Tartabull - .510 SLG%
1993-2004: Barry Bonds 1st in HRs, 11th. Mark McGwire - .675 SLG%
1993-2004: Barry Bonds 1st in HRs, 11th. Mark McGwire - .675 SLG%
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Historical numbers suggest that "elite" position players typically enter the beginning of their peak around age 27 and begin an often rapid descent around age 33. So, the fact that in 1992, at age 27, he started producing at the best levels of his career to that point--that's neither unusual nor unexpected. And his performance during that period of time from 92-98 was remarkably consistent.
Then, something happened during or after the 99 season that led him to produce like no one before him had ever done. Which, again, totally jives with all the investigatory evidence we have about Bonds as well as the wealth of anecdotal evidence. There's really three distinct periods of his career and you're condensing them into two in order to suit your narrative.
Bonds is a turd and I don't particularly care to defend him. But the statement that "he was a HOFer before he started cheating" seems objectively correct to me (and I'm not a kid, ha).
80shockeywasbuns
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- Feb 12, 2022
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Greg02
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80shockeywasbuns
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beating the Astros 3 straight times at Minute Maid to open the year, all comebacks, might be the least NYY thing of all time. It still is amazing though how bad they hit off Houston starting pitchers. It’s absurd at this point
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Mets reliever Yohan Ramirez suspended three games for throwing at Rhys Hoskins
New York Mets reliever Yohan Ramirez received a three-game suspension from MLB for throwing at Milwaukee Brewers slugger Rhys Hoskins on Saturday.
sports.yahoo.com
f*** the Astros x4.
Buzz that you cheating f***s.
Eat that broom.
Buzz that you cheating f***s.
Eat that broom.
17futurecap
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2013
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a lot of grit, a lot of heart, and a lot of luck. sometimes you need all three to win.
Judge, Rizzo, and Stanton are dogwater to start offensively. So glad the rest of the lineup picked them up for once.
They did a good job beating a really good team on the road. They got another road series against another really good team. Hopefully the mojo continues.
Judge, Rizzo, and Stanton are dogwater to start offensively. So glad the rest of the lineup picked them up for once.
They did a good job beating a really good team on the road. They got another road series against another really good team. Hopefully the mojo continues.
Sweeping the Astros with Judge doing f*** all is a good thing. He's carried his shit spring with him into the regular season.
He had a shit start to the 2022 season too and then he went on to hit 62 homers so a bad 4 games means really dick.
Yankees need to get more length out of their starters. Love that the pen is picking up the slack so far but you can't rely on them this heavily. One thing the FO has been great at is picking guys up who are no bodies for bad teams and turning them into meaningful (if not significant) bull pen contributors.
No one could have told you who Ian Hamilton was before last year. I'm sure most fans wouldn't be able to pick him out of a group of 4 now. Yet here he is getting used in high leverage situations and recording outs in multiple inning outings.
I have no doubt they'll promote some AAA starter who would be a fringe starter at this level at some point this year and he'll become an impeccable reliever.
Any further adds they make this year need to be SP's. I don't trust anyone currently in the rotation who is healthy and who knows what they get out of Cole this year.
He had a shit start to the 2022 season too and then he went on to hit 62 homers so a bad 4 games means really dick.
Yankees need to get more length out of their starters. Love that the pen is picking up the slack so far but you can't rely on them this heavily. One thing the FO has been great at is picking guys up who are no bodies for bad teams and turning them into meaningful (if not significant) bull pen contributors.
No one could have told you who Ian Hamilton was before last year. I'm sure most fans wouldn't be able to pick him out of a group of 4 now. Yet here he is getting used in high leverage situations and recording outs in multiple inning outings.
I have no doubt they'll promote some AAA starter who would be a fringe starter at this level at some point this year and he'll become an impeccable reliever.
Any further adds they make this year need to be SP's. I don't trust anyone currently in the rotation who is healthy and who knows what they get out of Cole this year.
E-Train
Registered User
It’s Soto. Beyond elite. That presence in that lineup changes everything. They’re gonna mash the league. Taking walks now like the dynasty years.
I don’t like giving up John Cruz at 18 but Berti is a great add. Made that game saving pick at 3rd.
Ian Hamilton out of nowhere last year is just nasty. Burdi looks like version 2.0. They’ll add a vet starter during the year.
I don’t like giving up John Cruz at 18 but Berti is a great add. Made that game saving pick at 3rd.
Ian Hamilton out of nowhere last year is just nasty. Burdi looks like version 2.0. They’ll add a vet starter during the year.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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The Mets are a bad baseball team.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I still don't understand how they blackballed all the PED guys from the Hall of Fame, and they blackballed Pete Rose from the Hall of Fame for betting on baseball, but they rolled out the red carpet for David Ortiz who I can guarantee you did both of those things.
I mean we know he used PEDs but nothing has ever come out about him betting on anything?
It is ridiculous that the voters turned a blind eye to the PEDs though even more so that they penalized other guys for suspicion of use (Bagwell, Piazza, etc.)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]George Uhle (17)[/TD]
[TD]55.5[/TD]
[TD]1513[/TD]
[TD]3119.2[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]247.[/TD]
[TD]Jeff Kent (17)[/TD]
[TD]55.4[/TD]
[TD]9537[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Bobby Mathews (15)[/TD]
[TD]55.4[/TD]
[TD]2559[/TD]
[TD]4956.0[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]249.[/TD]
[TD]David Ortiz+ (20)[/TD]
[TD]55.3[/TD]
[TD]10091[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Jack Powell (16)[/TD]
[TD]55.3[/TD]
[TD]1764[/TD]
[TD]4389.0[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Agreed. If you look at Ortiz' bWAR he's surrounded by mediocre non-HoFers.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
It's out there but it's a distant third to the PED stuff and him being FUN! and QUIRKY!
I'll tell you one thing, he didn't get shot by mistake imo like the Dominican authorities tried to say.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
True, but DH's are known to have diminished value (I mean, inherently) and I have no problem with DH's being in the Hall as DH's. Similar to closers who have a hard time accruing value. My issue with Ortiz isn't value.
And look, me personally, I don't care if the guy sacrificed to the dark lord. None of us are perfect.
My issue is the double standard that's been applied to the Hall of Fame in regard to morality.
