MLB removes Rose and Jackson and others from ineligble list for BHOF

[LadyStanley]

MLB removes Pete Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson from ineligible list in decision that can pave way for Hall of Fame

MLB's decision on Tuesday will remove 16 players and one owner from the permanent ineligible list.

sports.yahoo.com

Could be interesting future

 

[eojsmada]

MLB removes Pete Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson from ineligible list in decision that can pave way for Hall of Fame

MLB's decision on Tuesday will remove 16 players and one owner from the permanent ineligible list.

sports.yahoo.com

Could be interesting future

Huge...good for MLB

 

[sneakytitz]

F&#$ Rob Manfred. Pete should have had this happen while he was still alive.

 

[LadyStanley]

Pete Rose reinstated by MLB, eligible for the Hall of Fame: How we got here and what it means

Rose’s removal from the permanently ineligible list does not guarantee his future enshrinement in the Hall.

sports.yahoo.com

Manfred's comment is that dead folks cannot (further) impact the integrity of the game.

 

[KevFu]

I get the logic, because it's the ultimate "duh." When you are given a "Lifetime Ban" and you are dead, you have served your sentence.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I get the logic, because it's the ultimate "duh." When you are given a "Lifetime Ban" and you are dead, you have served your sentence.

Sure, but Joe's been dead for quite some time now.

As for Pete Rose I always felt he deserved induction into the Hall, because of his play on the field.

Thought that was sort of the point, that he made enough of an impact in his active playing career that he earned a spot among the greats.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Sure, but Joe's been dead for quite some time now.

As for Pete Rose I always felt he deserved induction into the Hall, because of his play on the field.

Thought that was sort of the point, that he made enough of an impact in his active playing career that he earned a spot among the greats.

true but they werent going to reinstate Shoeless Joe while Pete was alive and open that can of worms

 

[Dr Pepper]

true but they werent going to reinstate Shoeless Joe while Pete was alive and open that can of worms

Why not?

If a "lifetime ban" is to end after a candidate's death, surely that would make sense even to Rose.

Maybe if it was explained to him that he'd get his flowers, so to speak, once he'd passed on, maybe he would've been more at peace with it.

 

[KevFu]

Personally, I'm way more forgiving on the Black Sox than Pete Rose.

We look at the Black Sox NOW from the lense of "Gambling is the ultimate no-no, and these guys threatened the integrity of the game"

But baseball was more unorganized, chaotic, and full of gambling and was working towards creating that integrity to make it a legit business. There were dozens of competing leagues, with the AL/NL "winning" but the wars still going.

There wasn't a massive separation between fans and players (ropes in the OF and fans would interfere), gamblers would offer the players money with the ball in the air to drop it/catch it... the Red Sox basically threw a game of the WS a few years earlier (the owner ordered their manager not to start their ace, so he could sell another games worth of tickets). The players would run pools on stats and "take it easy" late in the season/games to get their desired outcomes. All of that was NORMAL.

So when the Black Sox threw the 1919 World Series, that was what baseball was.

We all know that in response, "baseball" hired a commissioner, he passed the ruling banning those guys permanently from "baseball."

So think about it from those guys' perspective. They weren't that far off than what the Red Sox OWNER had just done. There wasn't a written rule for what they did; the penalty would be blacklisted from the American League, but it wasn't a given the NL would honor that, and there were dozens of other leagues.

But AFTER they threw it, the AL & NL hire a commissioner (1921), give him power, He makes the rule, sentences them for breaking it, and establishes the precedent for banishment from "baseball." And then nine months later (1922), the US Supreme Court rules on the Federal League's lawsuit, which essentially definied "baseball" as the AL & NL.

They committed a crime, and then AFTER they did it, the court system, juristiction, sentence and scope of repercussions were created.


Whereas, Pete Rose walked into the Clubhouse every day, and the sign on the door told him that Gambling on baseball is a lifetime ban from baseball.

 

[Son of Nogatco]

Why not?

If a "lifetime ban" is to end after a candidate's death, surely that would make sense even to Rose.

Maybe if it was explained to him that he'd get his flowers, so to speak, once he'd passed on, maybe he would've been more at peace with it.

If Pete Rose’s family had petitioned for Jackson’s ban to be rescinded 5 years ago then they probably would have lifted it (I.e., Jackson’s ban) while Pete was alive.

Knowing that Rose wouldn’t be considered for reinstatement until after his death, his family waited until after he passed to submit the petition, and that’s the reason why Jackson’s ban wasn’t lifted earlier.

 

[Son of Nogatco]

So think about it from those guys' perspective. They weren't that far off than what the Red Sox OWNER had just done.

Even looking at it from the players’ perspective, there’s a huge difference between an owner asking the manager to start an inferior pitcher to prolong a series they ultimate are trying to win (still shady but likely not an uncommon practice; consider Stanley cup seeding used to be 1v3 and 2v4, same idea), and players accepting money from organized criminal organizations to intentionally play poorly and lose on purpose.