OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXIV

[Filthy Dangles]

His WAR actually overrates him. His WAA is the most damning. 1.8...lol. Mike Fish already has 48.7 WAA for comparison.

 

[Machinehead]

They won't.

Unless they get Machado its gonna be Bargain Bin Brian time.

Can't blame Brian. The owners don't want to spend. And don't tell me they can't afford it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Can't blame Brian. The owners don't want to spend. And don't tell me they can't afford it.

Yeah but the alliteration doesn't work with Hal.

I'm not convinced that they don't want to spend. They rarely tip their hand.

 

[East Coast Bias]

It's really amazing how sports owners and leagues have managed to print money and get the fans to go along with the idea that players demands are ruining sports.

Restrict player salaries with cap/luxury tax
fans blame players greed
ticket prices go up
Owners make more money
FA comes - greedy players!
Go your tickets for next season (at a higher price)
Make more money

 

[Bob Richards]

Someone posted the comparison between Baines and Keith Hernandez, and it wasn’t even close how much better Hernandez was. And, I don’t even claim that Hernandez is an HoFer. What a farce.

	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	wOBA	wRC+	fWAR
Hernandez	.296	.384	.436	.821	.365	131	59.4
Baines	.289	.356	.465	.820	.358	119	38.5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Also Baines was basically regulated to a DH for 14 years while Hernandez is considered one of the greatest fielders of all time.

 

[sbjnyc]

It's really amazing how sports owners and leagues have managed to print money and get the fans to go along with the idea that players demands are ruining sports.

Restrict player salaries with cap/luxury tax
fans blame players greed
ticket prices go up
Owners make more money
FA comes - greedy players!
Go your tickets for next season (at a higher price)
Make more money

In 2017, MLB payrolls ranged between 25%-70% of revenues (depending on team). How many other industries have such a wide range?

If you look at payroll as a percentage of revenues, the Mets (46%) were not nearly as stingy as the Yanks (37%). But relaive to both NY teams the Marlins were big spenders (55%).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In 2017, MLB payrolls ranged between 25%-70% of revenues (depending on team). How many other industries have such a wide range?

If you look at payroll as a percentage of revenues, the Mets (46%) were not nearly as stingy as the Yanks (37%).

Yeah but the Yankees are also twice as valuable as the Mets.

And then there is the whole luxury tax thing. Theres a reason why they shed payroll.

 

[Ghost of jas]

	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	wOBA	wRC+	fWAR
Hernandez	.296	.384	.436	.821	.365	131	59.4
Baines	.289	.356	.465	.820	.358	119	38.5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Also Baines was basically regulated to a DH for 14 years while Hernandez is considered one of the greatest fielders of all time.

Agreed. The knock on Keith used to be lack of power at a traditional power position. But, if Baines gets in, how do you keep Hernandez out? Hell, how do you keep Franco and Wagner out with Smith going in?

 

[sbjnyc]

Yeah but the Yankees are also twice as valuable as the Mets.

And then there is the whole luxury tax thing. Theres a reason why they shed payroll.

Yanks are twice as valuable because they have twice the revenue (or rather twice the total earnings). The Mets actually have a higher operating income.

 

[sbjnyc]

Agreed. The knock on Keith used to be lack of power at a traditional power position. But, if Baines gets in, how do you keep Hernandez out? Hell, how do you keep Franco and Wagner out with Smith going in?

Possible that Keith is out because of his drug issues at the time.

 

[RGY]

 

[One Winged Angel]

I will be furious if they cheap out on either. It was one thing to be hesitant with Corbin who is a couple years older than Machado/Harper and is a pitcher who throws a ton of sliders, but i will riot if they dont break the bank for one of the two 26 year olds just because they want to strong arm them into taking less to be a Yankee. We are not a small market team so cut the **** out. They are going to make so much money off one of these guys in merchandise and ticket sales over their tenure here, as well as the main goal of winning not just one world series but multiple ones.

I agree. The chart that has been going around has shown their margin of profit from player salaries to revenue brought in... the gap is just INSANE these past 6-8 years. No other team is doing that.

What pisses me off is that they told everyone the goal was to get under the luxury tax specifically for this offseason. Now, you don't want to spend? What was the point? Now I'm gonna reserve judgement until everything is said and done as today is the first real day at the winter meetings, but if Hal decides to cheap out this entire offseason, I'm not gonna be happy.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I agree. The chart that has been going around has shown their margin of profit from player salaries to revenue brought in... the gap is just INSANE these past 6-8 years. No other team is doing that.

What pisses me off is that they told everyone the goal was to get under the luxury tax specifically for this offseason. Now, you don't want to spend? What was the point? Now I'm gonna reserve judgement until everything is said and done as today is the first real day at the winter meetings, but if Hal decides to cheap out this entire offseason, I'm not gonna be happy.

This is my stance. It's like everyone on these boards who's pissed because GMJG hasn't yet made any major trades this season. The TDL is still months away and there are tons of moves still to be made. Likewise, in baseball, pitchers and catchers don't report until 2/13 – and last year, Martinez didn't sign with the Sox until 2/19. Let's hold off on the tar and feathers until we see what ultimately happens.

 

[True Blue]

I agree. The chart that has been going around has shown their margin of profit from player salaries to revenue brought in... the gap is just INSANE these past 6-8 years. No other team is doing that.

What pisses me off is that they told everyone the goal was to get under the luxury tax specifically for this offseason. Now, you don't want to spend? What was the point? Now I'm gonna reserve judgement until everything is said and done as today is the first real day at the winter meetings, but if Hal decides to cheap out this entire offseason, I'm not gonna be happy.

This is NOT cheaping out. This is dollars and sense. Due to the luxury tax, the cannot afford to have 3 players making $300m. Being able to pay out yearly salaries is one thing. Not being forced to spend $1.5-$1.75 for every dollar in order to sign someone, is quite another.

 

[NYR Viper]

This is NOT cheaping out. This is dollars and sense. Due to the luxury tax, the cannot afford to have 3 players making $300m. Being able to pay out yearly salaries is one thing. Not being forced to spend $1.5-$1.75 for every dollar in order to sign someone, is quite another.

I fail to see how the luxury tax should even be a consideration here. The team, even when hitting well into the luxury tax, is still incredibly profitable.

 

[RGY]

Finalize a Sonny Gray deal. Take the return and package with a couple of our own prospects for Kluber. Try to avoid dealing Andujar and Florial.

 

[One Winged Angel]

This is NOT cheaping out. This is dollars and sense. Due to the luxury tax, the cannot afford to have 3 players making $300m. Being able to pay out yearly salaries is one thing. Not being forced to spend $1.5-$1.75 for every dollar in order to sign someone, is quite another.

Even when they were over the luxury tax, the margin of profit was INSANE, as I've stated previously. What reason is there for them not to do something big?

What are the Houston Astros some base model? Suck for years and have an entire team of superstars on team controlled deals so the margin of profit is beyond astronomical? I'm sorry, but George would have NEVER tolerated that garbage and everyone knows it.

Giving Harper OR Machado $30 million a year isn't going to hamstring this team. I understand that Judge, Sanchez and Severino will need raises in the next few years, but if you're still worried about the luxury tax after claiming they needed to get under it for years only to cheap out, then the message was nothing but a lie.

I can understand passing on Corbin. I can understand passing on others, but if you have a chance to add a Harper or a Machado (I think it's Manny, personally) you have to add them. Andujar is good and had a great rookie year, but is there even a guarantee that he becomes as good as Machado? Absolutely not.

If you're of the line of thought that the money is better spent on Arenado, remember... Arenado, as much as he's one of my top-10 favorites in the entire league plays in high altitude with thin air and the ball flies out, inflating power numbers and hasn't faced AL East pitching regularly. Also, he's a year older.

People were crazy about missing on Goldschmidt, but his numbers average wise were bad and he's going to have to adjust. It speaks volumes to how well Stanton did in his first year here. Not that I think Arenado would be bad here, I just think that he's a bigger risk considering the transition from NL to AL and he's not a lefty bat. They're both righties and Machado has proven he can hit AL pitching and do so for a very high average with great power numbers.

 

[Machinehead]

"Yankees" and "can't afford" is a non-starter.

Yes they can.

 

[True Blue]

I fail to see how the luxury tax should even be a consideration here. The team, even when hitting well into the luxury tax, is still incredibly profitable.

Because the more you go over, the more you are penalized. If, for example, they wanted to spend on a free agent, but instead of paying him $100m, they would not need to pay the players $100 plus an additional $50-$75m, then your profits take a hit. If if you are locked into a number of 10 year deals for this, then this continues to be punitive for years to come.

 

[True Blue]

"Yankees" and "can't afford" is a non-starter.

Yes they can.

Am afraid that is no longer true. There is a reason as to why Steinbrenner mandated that they get below the luxury tax. Yeah, they can pay penalties, but who in their right mind would want to dish out, let's call a crazy number here, an extra $100m, in luxury tax payments??

 

[Machinehead]

Am afraid that is no longer true. There is a reason as to why Steinbrenner mandated that they get below the luxury tax. Yeah, they can pay penalties, but who in their right mind would want to dish out, let's call a crazy number here, an extra $100m, in luxury tax payments??

A team that wants to win a championship?

 

[mrmovies779]

Finalize a Sonny Gray deal. Take the return and package with a couple of our own prospects for Kluber. Try to avoid dealing Andujar and Florial.

I would be shocked to get Kluber without giving up Florial.Thats exactly 1 of the pieces i would be asking for if i was the Indians.I also wouldnt make any trade unless he was part of the package - if i was them.

 

[True Blue]

Giving Harper OR Machado $30 million a year isn't going to hamstring this team. I understand that Judge, Sanchez and Severino will need raises in the next few years, but if you're still worried about the luxury tax after claiming they needed to get under it for years only to cheap out, then the message was nothing but a lie.

Harper+Stanton+ Judge = $90m right there. That's just 3 players. All here on 10 year deals. Now tack on Severino, Betances, Sanchez, Didi......how much are you paying now? And that is only 7 players. That is not cheaping out, but NO ONE can blame Steinbrenner if he does not want to be forced to spend double the amounts on free agents. Cheaping out? How much did they spend last year on pay roll? Cheaping out? Give me a break.

I can understand passing on Corbin. I can understand passing on others, but if you have a chance to add a Harper or a Machado (I think it's Manny, personally) you have to add them. Andujar is good and had a great rookie year, but is there even a guarantee that he becomes as good as Machado? Absolutely not.

The LAST thing that this team needs is another right handed hitter. Machado? Let's see, bad attitude, prohibitive contract, no hustle, no hitting in the post season. Haven't we seen this movie before and know exactly how it turns out?

 

[True Blue]

A team that wants to win a championship?

No team is going to do that

 

[Machinehead]

No team is going to do that

Nobody is asking them to go way over the threshold.

They've signed precisely nobody this offseason and aren't in any rumors that come out.

Surely there's a middle ground between doing nothing and burning $100m