Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[francis246]

i think hes just pointing to the fact that nylander is showing an improvement despite who he plays with as opposed to marners phantom improvement based on who hes playing with

That’s a pretty lazy argument if you ask me. It’s not like Nylander has not had opportunities to play with good players on the leafs. Nylander started his career playing with Matthews and even had opportunities to play with him later in his career too.

I mean all you have to do is look at the proof Tavares hit his career high with Marner. Matthews goal totals started going up once he got to play with Marner was well. I think there’s a mutually beneficial relationship there between goal scorers and Marner. He’s great for goal scorers and goal scorers are great for him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

All of a sudden being a consistent 90 point player isn’t enough growth, but Nylander getting there once is his career is epitome of growth for our players. Crazy man. I gotta stop replying cause I’m honestly at a loss for words. It’s not even making sense anymore

Yes being a consistent 90 point player isn’t growing, not being one and becoming one is growing.

I don’t know why you keep bringing it back to points when we’re talking about work ethic in developing their games. Nylander is indisputably bigger faster and stronger than he was 5 years ago, he regularly takes the puck to the net in a way he wasn’t able to 5 years ago. Matthews completely reworked his shooting mechanics from 5 years ago and is noticeably stronger on the cycle. Both of them used these improvements to hit new highs several years in a row. Marner is the same exact same size speed and strength that he was 5 years ago, he puts up the same amount of points he was putting up 5 years ago, best we can give him credit for is that he got his shot to about average in the last 5 years.

You say he’s putting in all this work every offseason but he keeps bringing the exact same product to the ice every year.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Everyone is just going around in circles.

He can be skinny God, obese God, or a skinny fat God, it doesn't matter. He simply doesn't perform in the playoffs as required and fades as the series goes on. In the end, the team's cap structure is out of order and will remain out of order even if you completely delete Tavares from the equation.

This means Marner has to go.

He should have been gone years ago but here we are. As long as they don't extend him, they can consider this a toss-away season and move on after the season concludes.

Whether you are a Marner fan or a Marner hater, this is the true reality of the situation if the Leafs future success is what matters.

He's not going anywhere. Once JT is off the books they'll give Mitchy a contract somewhere between WIllie & Auston, it's as clear as day MLSE is unwilling to make a change.

We'll go from the core 4 to the core 3 and there'll be a little more cap to spread around. It'll be like how our team should have progressed without signing Tavares. You can look at it like a minor blip, a loss of 7 years of our core's prime wasted with the JT experiment.

 

[francis246]

Yes being a consistent 90 point player isn’t growing, not being one and becoming one is growing.

I don’t know why you keep bringing it back to points when we’re talking about work ethic in developing their games. Nylander is indisputably bigger faster and stronger than he was 5 years ago, he regularly takes the puck to the net in a way he wasn’t able to 5 years ago. Matthews completely reworked his shooting mechanics from 5 years ago and is noticeably stronger on the cycle. Both of them used these improvements to hit new highs several years in a row. Marner is the same exact same size speed and strength that he was 5 years ago, he puts up the same amount of points he was putting up 5 years ago, best we can give him credit for is that he got his shot to about average in the last 5 years.

You say he’s putting in all this work every offseason but he keeps bringing the exact same product to the ice every year.

We can agree to disagree. I’m just never going to agree with your sentiments and you won’t mine. No point in going back and forth any further. We aren’t going to convince one another of anything.

 

[Petrus]

He's not going anywhere. Once JT is off the books they'll give Mitchy a contract somewhere between WIllie & Auston, it's as clear as day MLSE is unwilling to make a change.

We'll go from the core 4 to the core 3 and there'll be a little more cap to spread around. It'll be like how our team should have progressed without signing Tavares. You can look at it like a minor blip, a loss of 7 years of our core's prime wasted with the JT experiment.

The good news is the UFA class of 2025 has some really good players available. This team has an opportunity to really improve and rebalance the cap allocation.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

He's not going anywhere. Once JT is off the books they'll give Mitchy a contract somewhere between WIllie & Auston, it's as clear as day MLSE is unwilling to make a change.

We'll go from the core 4 to the core 3 and there'll be a little more cap to spread around. It'll be like how our team should have progressed without signing Tavares. You can look at it like a minor blip, a loss of 7 years of our core's prime wasted with the JT experiment.

Core 3 won’t work. Even with the growing cap.

Remove Taveres contract completely, his money will go to Woll’s extension, Marner’s raise (minimum of 12.3M to match his current cap percentage), Knies extension, and the forward that replaces Tavares.

Poof the money is gone.

If they bring back Marner, the team is weaker and will end up booting the next 2-3 seasons.

By then Matthews is up again for an extension.

 

[ZEBROA]

His first 90 point season was with Babcock. Not after Babcock left. I’m pretty sure Marner also had more ice time than both Matthews and Nylander as well under Babcock. His first 90 point season also was not with Matthews, so that point isn’t very valid either.

Nylander’s game pretty much still is the same game to me. Still not overly physical. Just more ice time. Out of the three, who am I most worried about them not being worth their contract it’s 100% Nylander. Because he’s shown more often than not that he will take nights off for weeks at a time and that’s scary. Can anyone honestly say for certain that Nylander will give us another 90 point season this coming year? Out of the three he’s the biggest wild card. Nylander has the raw talent to be better than both Matthews and Marner but he does not bring it enough on a night to night basis.

Even Matthews game didn’t really evolve or change that much under Keefe until this year when Marner got injured. All three guys are still young and have room to improve, not just Marner tbh.

At the end of the day being a consistent 90 point player is extremely difficult. You can try and diminish it anyway you want. He’s still gotten there. I’d like to see him improve the goal scoring in the playoffs. But you can’t ignore his production in the regular season and try and diminish him as a player based on a team result in the playoffs and same goes the other way. We can’t ignore his playoff numbers and just say he’s an elite player. He’s a very good player who needs to play better in the playoffs. Just like Matthews who’s goal scoring production drops in the playoffs and just like Nylander as well.

As i see it many want more of regular season Mitch in the playoffs. I belive Nylander and Matthews are closer to there best, when it count the most.

 

[Superstar]

He's not going anywhere. Once JT is off the books they'll give Mitchy a contract somewhere between WIllie & Auston, it's as clear as day MLSE is unwilling to make a change.

We'll go from the core 4 to the core 3 and there'll be a little more cap to spread around. It'll be like how our team should have progressed without signing Tavares. You can look at it like a minor blip, a loss of 7 years of our core's prime wasted with the JT experiment.

Sign JT cheap after his current contract expires, then move him to the wing with Willy playing centre...overpay for a Marner extension and keep him with Matthews...team will be amazing in the playoffs like we've never seen before...

 

[Antropovsky]

That’s a pretty lazy argument if you ask me. It’s not like Nylander has not had opportunities to play with good players on the leafs. Nylander started his career playing with Matthews and even had opportunities to play with him later in his career too.

I mean all you have to do is look at the proof Tavares hit his career high with Marner. Matthews goal totals started going up once he got to play with Marner was well. I think there’s a mutually beneficial relationship there between goal scorers and Marner. He’s great for goal scorers and goal scorers are great for him.

Here are the 5v5 stats for Matthews, ordered by g/60 within each year. Its actually possible Marner is dragging Matthews goal totals down:

Ive added a category indicating number of goals if Matthews played 1200 5v5 mins with each player. 1200 mins was about what he and other top players played this past season:

**2016:**
1. 411 mins w/C. Brown = 2.19 g/60 → 43.8 goals
2. 975 mins w/Hyman = 1.72 g/60 → 34.4 goals
3. 624 mins w/Nylander = 1.34 g/60 → 26.8 goals
4. 70 mins w/Marner = 0 g/60 → 0 goals

**2017:**
1. 718 mins w/Nylander = 1.84 g/60 → 36.8 goals
2. 73 mins w/Marner = 1.64 g/60 → 32.8 goals
3. 790 mins w/Hyman = 1.52 g/60 → 30.4 goals

**2018:**
1. 432 mins w/Marleau = 1.80 g/60 → 36.0 goals
2. 88 mins w/Marner = 1.37 g/60 → 27.4 goals

**2019:**
1. 535 mins w/Marner = 1.79 g/60 → 35.8 goals
2. 541 mins w/Nylander = 1.34 g/60 → 26.8 goals

**2020:**
1. 99 mins w/Galchenyuk = 3.02 g/60 → 60.4 goals
2. 50 mins w/Nylander = 2.32 g/60 → 46.4 goals
3. 315 mins w/Hyman = 2.09 g/60 → 41.8 goals
4. 742 mins w/Marner = 1.94 g/60 → 38.8 goals

**2021:**
1. 850 mins w/Bunting = 2.33 g/60 → 46.6 goals
2. 741 mins w/Marner = 1.93 g/60 → 38.6 goals

**2022:**
1. 735 mins w/Bunting = 1.54 g/60 → 30.8 goals
2. 504 mins w/Nylander = 1.54 g/60 → 30.8 goals
3. 539 mins w/Marner = 1.33 g/60 → 26.6 goals

**2024:**
1. 17 mins w/Kampf = 3.39 g/60 → 67.8 goals
2. 206 mins w/Domi = 3.19 g/60 → 63.8 goals
3. 728 mins w/Marner = 1.54 g/60 → 30.8 goals

*** note that in 2019 his g/60 was highest with Marner but his p/60 were similar ro Marners with numerous players. Meaning he collected more assists with those players than with Marner.

• -Matthews paced 35 even strength goals with Hyman in his rookie season! In a sample size of 975 mins, which is only a couple hundred mins short of the 1200 min total.
• A pace Marner/Matthews only exceeded by more than 1 goal once and it was just 4 goals.
• Marner/Matthews have fallen below Matthews/Hyman rookie g/60 numerous times, including the last two seasons.

 

[mikeyz]

Yet over the last 8 years the core 4 have won more playoff games then McDrai.

Leafs 24 wins
Oilers 22 wins

…………… The Oilers and McDrai have won more than 22 playoff games. They won 15 alone this year making it to game 7 of the cup finals and they made it to the conference final a few years ago and the 2nd round last year.

 

[leafs in five]

I’ve always been a natural athlete, no need for the gym.

oh yeah same, I don't really do anything while in the gym, mostly just look at HF on my phone

 

[Hellcat]

If you need a training/diet plan you can just ask bro, clown post as usual

Why would I want a training / diet plan from a former gym bro trainer who has 25 less years experience than I do? A self describe Mosiah, that cant make a living out of the activity that he claims has him in better shape than the 1% of the 1% of the worlds population who are elite enough to make it to the NHL, kinda triggers those red flags for me. If you (third person) were actually any good at it you'd (third person) have enough clients to make a healthy living at it.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner is in Vaughan today if anyone is interested in frothing in person.

MARNER ASSISTS, BUT SILENT​

Article content
Marner’s long-term future as a Leaf is not clear, but his sixth annual all-star invitational hockey event is certainly on.



After a red-carpet launch Thursday night (hockey media was forewarned there’d be no interviews with the winger) Marner and NHL friends were to hold an on-ice clinic for donors on Friday morning at The Sports Village in Vaughan with instruction on puck control, stick-handling and scoring. It was to be followed by a 3-on-3 tourney of NHLers in the afternoon.



The charity, a big reason why Marner hopes to remain in Toronto (the Leafs have had two weeks to begin talks on an extension), has raised $2 million for sustainable change for children and youth in social care, health, education and environmental causes.

Article content


Marner’s mission statement reads in part: “You’ve got a big spotlight on you (as a Leaf) to change people’s lives every day and I think it’s your choice to try and do that.”



Marner has met with Craig Berube and the Leafs’ new head coach has described him as “a character guy, I look forward to coaching him.”

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner is in Vaughan today if anyone is interested in frothing in person.

I assume you have been lined up since last night?

 

[Hellcat]

The top F1 drivers train extremely hard to build their body up to sustain the high G forces and the demand on the body for driving at high speeds/acceleration for extended periods. They are professionals and need to train as such to be at their best.

As for Marner, the proof is in the pudding as they say...he still has a weak shot after 8 years in the league, a slow skater, avoids the front of the net, plays on the perimeter...if you compare Marner to someone like Brayden Point, there's alot to be desired. It seems like Marner thinks he could just let his natural talent, which worked in junior and mostly in the regular season, carry him in the playoffs. When you become a man, playing against other men, and want to be on top and excel, you need to work extremely hard...harder than most of your peers, and the evidence does not point to Marner doing that. And when money comes so easy as a Leaf, I don't think that's a good thing.

He scores 90+ points a season.

Marner is in Vaughan today if anyone is interested in frothing in person.

Bwhahaha ... frothing in person ... that gets an A+ for originality!

 

[Hellcat]

I’ve always been a natural athlete, no need for the gym.

I'm not naturally gifted like you, I'm one of those sick f***ers that has been getting up at 5am for the last 20ish years, I've completed my full workout + 5k walk/ bike ride, shower and breakfast before most people are awake. It takes a lot of work to look this good ...

I assume you have been lined up since last night?

There is a joke about your girlfriend and the Canadian Navy that I could insert here but she clearly has it rough enough ...

 

[ACC1224]

He scores 90+ points a season.



Bwhahaha ... frothing in person ... that gets an A+ for originality!

Unfortunately Pitch Forks are out of Stock at the Home Depot in Vaughan so they'll need to find an alternative, maybe just throw rocks.

 

[Hellcat]

Unfortunately Pitch Forks are out of Stock at the Home Depot in Vaughan so they'll need to find an alternative, maybe just throw rocks.

Body shaming is probably their weapon of choice ...

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you see his skinny little arms?
Common sense crowd: He scores 90+ points a season

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he like Lasagna?
Common sense crowd:He scores 90+ points a year.

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he wont take hits and avoids contact?
Common sense crowd: He scores 90+ points a year.

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he was caught laughing in the off season?
Common sense crowd: He scores 90+ points a year.

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he had the gall to get married?
Common sense crowd: He scores 90+ points a year.

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he is asking for $12.5 mil a year?
Common sense crowd: He scores 90+ points a year.

Pitch Fork Fools: Did you hear he has won only one post season series in 8 years?
Common sense crowd: It's a team sport fool.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He scores 90+ points a season.



Bwhahaha ... frothing in person ... that gets an A+ for originality!

You know what? Defending these guys and kissing their feet is just as pathetic as frothing. These guys wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. Who cares? I am not idolizing hockey players like some of you here. Sick of this BS Leafs organization has been feeding us. Shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic some more, Tre/Shanny.

Marner scores 90 points a season, whoop de doo. What am I supposed to do? Say “thank you Mr. Marner, you’re amazing!!” ?

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's not going anywhere. Once JT is off the books they'll give Mitchy a contract somewhere between WIllie & Auston, it's as clear as day MLSE is unwilling to make a change.

We'll go from the core 4 to the core 3 and there'll be a little more cap to spread around. It'll be like how our team should have progressed without signing Tavares. You can look at it like a minor blip, a loss of 7 years of our core's prime wasted with the JT experiment.

The lingering problem will be that because of the Tavares contract all three are overpaid, and Marner will be even more so if they re-sign him.

 

[AvroArrow]

Why would I want a training / diet plan from a former gym bro trainer who has 25 less years experience than I do? A self describe Mosiah, that cant make a living out of the activity that he claims has him in better shape than the 1% of the 1% of the worlds population who are elite enough to make it to the NHL, kinda triggers those red flags for me. If you (third person) were actually any good at it you'd (third person) have enough clients to make a healthy living at it.

Sorry my immigrant parents couldn't afford to enroll me in hockey. Hockey skills does not = fitness. Dude I made a living out of training for like 10+ years lmfao but nice try.

I'm claiming to be in better shape, not better at hockey. There's a difference. You're probably in better shape than guys like Byfuglien and what not.

 

[Superstar]

.

 

[LeafGrief]

Man, I love clicking on this thread every few days and seeing what's the topic du jour. DOES MARNER EVEN LIFT, BRO?

Nah, he doesn't lift. He obviously has elite athlete cardio, which is the bread and butter of an NHL'er, you can't play 23 minutes a night of NHL shifts if you aren't an insanely well-trained athlete, but he's also clearly missing some of the physical strength that you'd hope a player of his size would build. Someone like Marty St. Louis is tiny compared to NHL defenders, but he was an absolute beast in the gym and has Crosby legs. I don't think Marner is a stick, but he ain't Nylander either. Upper body stuff and looking like Rod the Bod is more of a personal choice than a real difference maker for an NHL'er. It won't hurt and you love to see it, but getting jacked AF won't make Marner effective in the playoffs.

No, for Marner it's about how he sees the game and plays the game. He plays scared when the games get big. Maybe he'd feel more confident if he could bench four plates, but maybe he'd feel more confident if Charlie McAvoy texted him some smiley face emoji's on the morning of games. Confidence is in your head and it's up to every man to find out on their own where it's going to come from.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

The lingering problem will be that because of the Tavares contract all three are overpaid, and Marner will be even more so if they re-sign him.

Tavares was overpaid by around a million but he was the top UFA in his prime, his contract was fair value. Whether he actually lived up to it after his first season is very much debatable. I would say we only got our money's worth in his first year.

The Matthews & Marner deals were absolutely atrocious in hindsight. They got much more than their comparable peers, they got less term and all of the clauses. Dubas got absolutely bent over.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

The good news is the UFA class of 2025 has some really good players available. This team has an opportunity to really improve and rebalance the cap allocation.

Need top tier Dmen on this team ASAP