Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[ACC1224]

LOL you think MacKinnon, Crosby, Matthews aren’t doing the same shit? HAHAHA. MacKinnon was literally on overdrive three weeks ago talking about how he was on a week long bender with Crosby and golfing immediately after the season. They got after it together lol. Bro all these athletes are on boats, partying. If you have a problem with Marner dancing in his down time that says more about you than it does about his work ethic.

Did we see McDavid running to the LCBO to buy cases of booze after a game. So I guess his work ethic is dog shit cause he wasn’t immediately in the gym. Do you see how dumb that statement is? You can’t really make any assumptions about someone based on a 30 second clip from the off-season.

Again, I don’t think anyone on here including myself can really say whether these guys are working hard or not, we are not in the gym with them.

Common sense tells you they work hard. You don’t need to be in a gym or on the ice with them.

 

[leafs in five]

I also have spent almost every single day in the gym for the past 12 years

 

[ACC1224]

I also have spent almost every single day in the gym for the past 12 years

I’ve always been a natural athlete, no need for the gym.

 

[francis246]

Common sense tells you they work hard. You don’t need to be in a gym or on the ice with them.

Exactly. The athletes that do have a crew following them around or leak that they are in the gym 24/7, always have a motivating factor behind that. Whether it’s to get public sway on their side or trying to prove a message to the organization. That’s why we rarely see those things leaked cause most guys are skating, working out. They also take their vacations and have down time with their families/friends. It’s all apart of it

 

[Leafs98]

Marner needs new gear. TRUE is the new JOFA and anyone would fear collisions wearing that crap. Not designed for contact hockey.

 

[AvroArrow]

LOL you think MacKinnon, Crosby, Matthews aren’t doing the same shit? HAHAHA. MacKinnon was literally on overdrive three weeks ago talking about how he was on a week long bender with Crosby and golfing immediately after the season. They got after it together lol. Bro all these athletes are on boats, partying. If you have a problem with Marner dancing in his down time that says more about you than it does about his work ethic.

Did we see McDavid running to the LCBO to buy cases of booze after a game. So I guess his work ethic is dog shit cause he wasn’t immediately in the gym. Do you see how dumb that statement is? You can’t really make any assumptions about someone based on a 30 second clip from the off-season.

Again, I don’t think anyone on here including myself can really say whether these guys are working hard or not, we are not in the gym with them.

You're hopeless man lol, what's the difference between Mackinnon/Crosby's playoff performances vs Marners ? Not talking about just cup wins, but those guys actually compete and perform at a high level unlike your god Marner. Also go take a look at Mackinnon and Crosbys legs/core and then go take a look at Marner, once again your body is the truest reflection of the work you put in and how well you feed it and maintain it. Lazy people with poor work ethic and discipline make excuses like genetics. Also really highlights why you're trying to defend him so badly.

You're completely clueless, from not understanding how basic nutrition/macros work to this.

I will never understand the Marner fanboys and why they think it's acceptable for Marner to not compete in the playoffs and put minimal work in, in the off-season. 11M players are expected to work like 11M players.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Since my name is John, I don't like that term for the washroom, so I call it Jim instead.

I go to the Jim every day.

(It works better verbally.)

 

[Antropovsky]

Bruh, you dislike someone cause they mentioned Dougie Gilmour in a Twitter video LMAO?! You cannot be serious. I’m sorry I just laughed for a good 3 minutes at that. That is a weak sauce thing to be upset about lol. Also who cares about Paul Marner? He’s irrelevant.

Some valid points otherwise, I see your point. Some good reasons to not want him on the team, some laughable ones. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We do know you have to play a certain way to win, so I completely understand that point of view.

No...he's name drops because his ego and he wants to be associated with them. Same reason he brings up Matthews always in his postgame interviews "Auston and me.."

Here, I can't say it as good as AI:

Name-dropping is the act of mentioning well-known people to impress others. It can involve directly asserting or implying a connection to people of high status in order to elevate one's own social standing. While motivations for name-dropping can vary, it can sometimes be a sign of narcissism or an inflated sense of self. People who name-drop may believe they are unique and that relationships are about status, dominance, and success.

 

[AvroArrow]

Common sense tells you they work hard. You don’t need to be in a gym or on the ice with them.

Damn, works so hard!

Being too scared to wrap it around when Swayman passed him the puck behind the net this year

Scared of getting hit vs Florida on the blue line last year, throws a muffin up the middle

Take your pick of any of the dumbass plays vs Montreal

He wears #16, watch playoff tape from any of the last 5 years. If you think that he "works hard" after watching that, you have absolutely no idea what hard work looks like.

 

[Antropovsky]

Tre picked Nylander.

As he shouldve...

Damn, works so hard!

Being too scared to wrap it around when Swayman passed him the puck behind the net this year

Scared of getting hit vs Florida on the blue line last year, throws a muffin up the middle

Take your pick of any of the dumbass plays vs Montreal

He wears #16, watch playoff tape from any of the last 5 years. If you think that he "works hard" after watching that, you have absolutely no idea what hard work looks like.

Shocking how the "smartest player in the league" makes some of the dumbest plays in the league.

 

[Gabriel426]

I’ve said this time and time again it comes down to envy in my opinion. A lot of people see Marner as the guy who is from the GTA and got the chance to play for his hometown team. The just assumed he would take a discount because he’s a leafs fan. It has little to do with Marner and more so, he’s not fitting the expectation people created in their heads for him. I think a lot of people think if they were put in his position they’d do better or make better decisions and that’s fair. But from the outset to expect him to be the one to take the discount was kind of unrealistic. Especially after the bonus and Babcock fiasco, you knew these 3 were going to get them back for the ELC negotiations.

Or it could also be the fact that MM is just not producing in the playoffs. Now, this also applies to the other three, AM, Willie and JT too.

If they actually produce in the playoffs and won a Cup or two. I don't think people would care too much how much they make, their off season.....

To me, as Leafs fans, it should be Leafs winning the Cup over anything. We cheer for the logo in the front and not the name in the back.

Now as fans, we all have different ideas of what can be done to the Leafs for them to win the Cup. And these ideas will involve players being traded, or whom to draft, or whom should get more play time, or who should be on PP1, or the system..... Thats where all the discussions start and fun, however, some fans due take others suggestions too personal, esp with certain players, it could be due to having personal ties with that player or they cheer for this player for a long time...and start making exceptions or reasons for said players...

If we all take a few steps back and pretend the Leafs and their players with their regular season and playoffs stats are any other teams in the League. Would you not think the top guys are chokers? Would you not think having three and now four 10.893mil or more players just ain't working and it is quite foolish for that team to continue to double or triple down on that? And if their fans go to the depths to defend them like some fans here are, won't you find it amusing?

 

[francis246]

You're hopeless man lol, what's the difference between Mackinnon/Crosby's playoff performances vs Marners ? Not talking about just cup wins, but those guys actually compete and perform at a high level unlike your god Marner. Also go take a look at Mackinnon and Crosbys legs/core and then go take a look at Marner, once again your body is the truest reflection of the work you put in and how well you feed it and maintain it. Lazy people with poor work ethic and discipline make excuses like genetics. Also really highlights why you're trying to defend him so badly.

You're completely clueless, from not understanding how basic nutrition/macros work to this.

I will never understand the Marner fanboys and why they think it's acceptable for Marner to not compete in the playoffs and put minimal work in, in the off-season. 11M players are expected to work like 11M players.

I’m not even that much of a Marner fan boy, I’d be completely fine with them trading him if it means the leafs are better for it. But I don’t just make baseless assumptions.

Yup and marners lazy’s ass is making 10.9 as a pro athlete while you’re in better shape heading to the gym tonight lol.

And my non-macro counting/no understanding of nutrition was also able to play pro, so I’m not sure what you’re even going on about. Just seems like projection

 

[Gabriel426]

Seems like everyday there is a new thing to criticize MM.
Today is his fitness.
He is a pro-Hockey player, he is in top shape.

Now, is he in shape to the point that he can play a physical game like Knies, probably not and thats more to his built and mentality than not having the energy to forecheck.

I want MM to be traded as much as the next person, like for Keller, 1st and 2nd from Utah, but he is in top shape.

 

[francis246]

Damn, works so hard!

Being too scared to wrap it around when Swayman passed him the puck behind the net this year

Scared of getting hit vs Florida on the blue line last year, throws a muffin up the middle

Take your pick of any of the dumbass plays vs Montreal

He wears #16, watch playoff tape from any of the last 5 years. If you think that he "works hard" after watching that, you have absolutely no idea what hard work looks like.

None of those videos demonstrate a lack of hard work, those videos demonstrate a lack of mental fortitude and just bad decision making. Neither of those two things have anything to do with what you’re talking about.

 

[ACC1224]

Damn, works so hard!

Being too scared to wrap it around when Swayman passed him the puck behind the net this year

Scared of getting hit vs Florida on the blue line last year, throws a muffin up the middle

Take your pick of any of the dumbass plays vs Montreal

He wears #16, watch playoff tape from any of the last 5 years. If you think that he "works hard" after watching that, you have absolutely no idea what hard work looks like.

You really don’t see how dumb this all sounds. Those videos have nothing to do with lack of commitment during the off season.

Seems like everyday there is a new thing to criticize MM.
Today is his fitness.
He is a pro-Hockey player, he is in top shape.

Now, is he in shape to the point that he can play a physical game like Knies, probably not and thats more to his built and mentality than not having the energy to forecheck.

I want MM to be traded as much as the next person, like for Keller, 1st and 2nd from Utah, but he is in top shape.

It’s 100% fine to feel the team may be better off without him with valid reason.
The idiocy we’ve seen so far this summer is HOF worthy.

 

[Confucius]

I also have spent almost every single day in the gym for the past 12 years

I knew a girl that did that 6 days a week for 4 years. She never worked out, just worked the front desk there.

 

[Antropovsky]

None of those videos demonstrate a lack of hard work, those videos demonstrate a lack of mental fortitude and just bad decision making. Neither of those two things have anything to do with what you’re talking about.

Strength matters in a physical sport. Marner may be fit from an average joe perspective, or maybe a long distance runners perspective but he certainly isn't from a contact sport pro athlete perspective. Additionally, if he was fast...then being strong might not matter as much. However, he is in the bottom 50% of speed in the NHL (as tracked by NHL Edge). So he needs strength to stay on his feet and protect the puck more than a guy like Mcdavid or even Kessel... who quickly accelerate away from opposing players.

Re-watch his playoffs... he tries to start and stop and change direction along the boards in the playoffs and he's easily knocked over. He attempts to stand in front of the net and easily knocked to the ice. He tries to protects the puck and lean on a player and immediately falls.

Being strong is certainly an important part of a hockey players game, especially a player in the bottom 50% in the NHL speed. It's embarrassing some on this board are trying to say it isn't, but expected.

 

[AvroArrow]

I’m not even that much of a Marner fan boy, I’d be completely fine with them trading him if it means the leafs are better for it. But I don’t just make baseless assumptions.

Yup and marners lazy’s ass is making 10.9 as a pro athlete while you’re in better shape heading to the gym tonight lol.

And my non-macro counting/no understanding of nutrition was also able to play pro, so I’m not sure what you’re even going on about. Just seems like projection

Irony

You think he works hard, I'm not sure how you can watch him play, watch other players play in the playoffs and then come to the conclusion he works hard.

Good for you if you played pro, I really mean that, it's an impressive feat.

But we obviously have 2 completely different standards of what hard work looks like. For example when I watched the playoffs, guys like Benett, Barkov, Reinhart Tanev, McDavid, Hyman, Ekholm, Marchand, Nylander, Mackinnon were guys who stood out because they were competing hard. I didn't see even 50% of that effort from Marner.

I will never agree with anyone who claims Marner works hard though.

 

[Antropovsky]

Irony

You think he works hard, I'm not sure how you can watch him play, watch other players play in the playoffs and then come to the conclusion he works hard.

Good for you if you played pro, I really mean that, it's an impressive feat.

But we obviously have 2 completely different standards of what hard work looks like. For example when I watched the playoffs, guys like Benett, Barkov, Reinhart Tanev, McDavid, Hyman, Ekholm, Marchand, Nylander, Mackinnon were guys who stood out because they were competing hard. I didn't see even 50% of that effort from Marner.

I will never agree with anyone who claims Marner works hard though.

Why do these Marner fans keep referencing us fans fitness levels? What that got to do with a pro athlete in a contact sport? It's cringe stuff like children saying my dad can beat up your dad.

Talk about desperation to talk about their bodies on the forum.. maybe create a message board to talk amongst yourselves about your bodies, you might even agree to send eachother shirtless photos, but it doesn't have any relevance to discussing Marners fitness.

Nobody in their right mind is gonna say Marner is in the shape of a top NHL player. Just put him down for bottom 50% like the rest of his tracked Edge stats.

 

[Jojalu]

Being a UFA is not the same as being available to sign in Toronto.

Not every player wants to play in Toronto. Somene on the team ia always the whipping boy and you have to deal with a rabid media..

Fans attack people on social media, including their famalies.

As much as Marner has had his failures in the playoffs, it's absurd to attack his character like anyone here actually knows him. The only thing anyone knows comes from what other players around the league says, and that is all positive.

I can remember Larry Murphy getting killed and then there has been a long list of fans taking out their frustrations on at least one player ever since.

Specualation is fun, but constantly bashing a guy for something you don't know to be teue is just slander

 

[PromisedLand]

This Thread in a meme:

 

[Martin Skoula]

Well that’s just incorrect. Marner’s goals have gone up every year. This year he had a dip due to injury. But he was pacing to score more than 35 this year. His shot and goal scoring has improved every year.

Again to me that isn’t really an issue of effort. Cause Marner still works hard on the ice, the avoidance of the middle of the ice, that’s more of a mental thing. In that regard I do think he needs to work on mentally getting to a place where he can absorb contact and not be afraid to go to the dirty areas.

His goals per 60 have been pretty stable other than the one outlier year he scored 35, the increase from 20 is mostly him getting way more icetime than his first few seasons. His shot has gotten marginally better but we’re talking about it going from being a blatant weakness to flirting with average. His speed and strength are the same.

Again if it takes him this crazy amount of work every offseason just to maintain his high end conditioning, you can’t complain too much. Not every Kane, Kucherov, Panarin etc style winger can develop a legitimate threat of a shot maybe, they just got the good shooting genetics I guess. Would be nice to see Mitch come in from an offseason with some element of his game visibly improved like other star players his size have done but I’d settle for him putting in work at the therapist’s office and calming his game down under pressure at this point.

There’s a world where he doesn’t have to get faster, stronger, or shoot better to be able to dictate the pace of play the way he needs to but that requires him becoming a cold blooded assassin on the ice that can play his game whether it’s a Tuesday in San Jose or he’s got a unit of greasy 220 pound forwards dedicated to frustrating him at every turn. Of those two options I would think getting faster and adding a few pounds would be easier but what do I know.

 

[francis246]

Irony

You think he works hard, I'm not sure how you can watch him play, watch other players play in the playoffs and then come to the conclusion he works hard.

Good for you if you played pro, I really mean that, it's an impressive feat.

But we obviously have 2 completely different standards of what hard work looks like. For example when I watched the playoffs, guys like Benett, Barkov, Reinhart Tanev, McDavid, Hyman, Ekholm, Marchand, Nylander, Mackinnon were guys who stood out because they were competing hard. I didn't see even 50% of that effort from Marner.

I will never agree with anyone who claims Marner works hard though.

I could easily say the same about Nylander. He legit gave up on a play and has more of a track record of doing that. Marner does make some brain dead plays but again that has more to do with freezing mentally. I haven’t really seen Marner not try. Even that play where he avoided contact against Marchand was it? I honestly believe he was just trying to beat Marchand to the puck. So he took the outside route. It would have just been better for him to absorb the contact for sure. But is that any more egregious than Nylander literally looking at a puck and just stop skating?

 

[HolyCrap]

I could easily say the same about Nylander. He legit gave up on a play and has more of a track record of doing that. Marner does make some brain dead plays but again that has more to do with freezing mentally. I haven’t really seen Marner not try. Even that play where he avoided contact against Marchand was it? I honestly believe he was just trying to beat Marchand to the puck. So he took the outside route. It would have just been better for him to absorb the contact for sure. But is that any more egregious than Nylander literally looking at a puck and just stop skating?

The core 4 are all pretty soft and lack that next gear post season. That’s why we need to trade some. If Willy can be moved for a good package great but he’s signed long term. Mathews won’t be moved and Tavares is more useful on LTIR but hopefully is gone next season. The key is not signing Marner to a ridiculous contract and if it means just gaining cap space it may be the only option. This team is handicapped by past management and it doesn’t seem like things are changing.

 

[Gabriel426]

The core 4 are all pretty soft and lack that next gear post season. That’s why we need to trade some. If Willy can be moved for a good package great but he’s signed long term. Mathews won’t be moved and Tavares is more useful on LTIR but hopefully is gone next season. The key is not signing Marner to a ridiculous contract and if it means just gaining cap space it may be the only option. This team is handicapped by past management and it doesn’t seem like things are changing.

As long as Drai is not signed, Leafs should not be signing MM on a deal, since they will hold on to the little hope that McD might come home.