Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Bomber0104]

Marner wants to be the highest paid for not winning a damn thing. F-off! Take your agent and your demanding father and leave! If the Leafs pay that money, how are they supposed to attract free agents that can help the team in the playoffs? There is only so much that can go around and at one point how much is enough?

This has always been the hypocrisy of the studs and duds model.

It's a me-first top-down sport when it comes to their paycheques and their share of the capspace.

But when they fail every year, all of a sudden it's a team game again....a few guys can't do it on their own...and the need for greater depth and support is brought back to the forefront.

It's all been BS right from the start.

 

[ACC1224]

Make it known that Marner is available and let's see what we can get.

If he's available I'm sure it's known.

Marner wants to be the highest paid for not winning a damn thing. F-off! Take your agent and your demanding father and leave! If the Leafs pay that money, how are they supposed to attract free agents that can help the team in the playoffs? There is only so much that can go around and at one point how much is enough?

Think you meant Matthews, followed by Nylander.

 

[nuck]

Make it known that Marner is available and let's see what we can get.

I am pretty sure thats been done. We will never know what sort of value might have been offered back unless a deal actually happens. And we won't ever know how little they would take in terms of total value back. The spectrum runs from somewhere between a 27 year old D man with elite skills to cap room. No club will offer the equivalent elite D man and the Leafs won't let him go for just cap space.

Marner is valuable but a hard sell for a million + more than his comparables so he kind of needs to go to a club that doesn't have a high paid star who is only getting actual market value. How would Forsberg feel about getting $3.5M less than Mitch? His needs/expectations greatly reduce his trade value.

 

[saffronleaf]

I am sorry, am I wrong?

wow

 

[saffronleaf]

So the Predators weren't interested in Marner.

Nobody is interested.

not nobody. ROR is very interested in him. now just need a GM to be interested in him.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Why Marner, how about Matty, Rielly, JT, Nylander... why is Marner the whipping boy. Hey the guy has a punchable face, he is a clone of the frat boy douche bags from crappy 80's movies, with the popped polo shirt collars, I get it he looks and acts like an entitled child but why does every one have such a hard on for trading a 90 to 100 point guy when there is a guy who makes more $$$$, his skills are declining and is producing at a rate of 25% to 30% less already? We would never get fair value for mitch plus JT will probably be gone in a year. Are we signing Draisaitl next summer?

JT has no incentive to waive along with limited trade value, and the others have re-signed recently. Marner's deal is nearly over and he could fetch a good return at least in theory.

Not that I think a Marner trade is very likely.

 

[saffronleaf]

marner is such a boston cream donut

 

[Mess]

I am pretty sure thats been done. We will never know what sort of value might have been offered back unless a deal actually happens. And we won't ever know how little they would take in terms of total value back. The spectrum runs from somewhere between a 27 year old D man with elite skills to cap room. No club will offer the equivalent elite D man and the Leafs won't let him go for just cap space.

Marner is valuable but a hard sell for a million + more than his comparables so he kind of needs to go to a club that doesn't have a high paid star who is only getting actual market value. How would Forsberg feel about getting $3.5M less than Mitch? His needs/expectations greatly reduce his trade value.

100%

Nikita Kucherov is coming off a league leading 144 point regular season including 100 assists and was the 2 X playoffs leading scorer on back to back TB Cup wins recently.

That makes him the best RW in the NHL with a price point of $9.5 mil AAV.

Leafs are already getting royally screwed paying Marner $10.9 mil AAV for a player that has never reached the 100 point mark, and coming off a 1 goal 3 point invisible playoff series.

Marner wanting a nice pay raise to put him around $12.5 mil similar to what 2024 Hart and Lindsey trophy winner Nate MacKinnon coming off a 140 point season as a #1 Centre and 1st team all-star & recent Stanley Cup seems beyond ridiculous on its merits alone.

Since the Salary Cap ceiling is the same for all teams, our Leafs are already using up +$1.4 mil more then TB in this 1-1 comparison for a far inferior player statistically regular season and playoffs.

If the Leafs don't want to keep screwing themselves and hurting their own Cup competitiveness chances than OUT is really the only reasonable option for Marner.

I don't understand how any Leaf fan that has Stanley Cup desires and/or believes MLSE does also, could endorse a Leafs re-signing putting Marner among the top players in the game, and weakening the Leafs depth and Cup chances simultaneously by overspending on under-perfoming players. .

 

[mikeyz]

And so they should. Common human decency has nothing to do with PC

I agree. But, I am just saying that today’s society right now is more PC then its ever been before and those kinds of comments would be less tolerated then they’ve ever been.

 

[saffronleaf]

I agree. But, I am just saying that today’s society right now is more PC then its ever been before and those kinds of comments would be less tolerated then they’ve ever been.

woah

 

[Hellcat]

JT has no incentive to waive along with limited trade value, and the others have re-signed recently. Marner's deal is nearly over and he could fetch a good return at least in theory.

Not that I think a Marner trade is very likely.

You could say the same for Mitch, he has no incentive to waive, his deal is almost over. His agent is know to draw these things out to gain leverage. Mitch is going to sign 500k to a mil more than Willie and fans will be apoplectic until they find their new target.

Some fans are simply stupid (not you), the goaltending sucked, the coaching sucked, our special teams was horrid, some of our D got walked almost every time they were on the ice and the solution is trade one of the best wingers in the world, get pennies on the dollar and that fixes everything.... ohh its the cap space.... no it's what you do with the cap space... do we really trust Tree to do the right thing? I looked at his UFA history, I wouldn't say he's a guy that is super successful with trades and UFA signings , he's OK at it but not a guy who is a lock to do the right thing... and when there is a win it's usually an over pay for a few years ... isn't that the problem we have now, players who are over paid to market value? So really it comes down to stupid angry pitch-forkers that can't articulate their point.

If you were to come to me and say Mitch+ for Makarr ... that makes sense, it makes the Leafs better but the Leafs are dealing from a a disadvantage, they would never get fair value or the cap space that many fans thinks will automatically come it would more like Mitch for Amaido, Griegg and a pick

LOL. Grade school level shaming language. So transparent.

My public speaking coach said to speak to the level you are talking to, mission accomplished?

 

[Hellcat]

Sigh.... this deflection again. Please read the Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, and Reilly threads.

Sigh ... I have and no one can intelligently articulate why Mitch? Can't trade Willie and AM they just signed contracts... is there a rule in the CBA that says you cant get traded in the 1st year of your contract? Stupid logic... Next. Can't trade JT he is the Captain, he wont waive, no one wants him, cap hit too high. 1) Who cares if he is a Captain, Leafs have traded and/or attempted to trade almost every Captain since the early 90's 2) No one wants one of the best down low and face off centers in the league, who can get you 70 points? Sure, no one wants that. 3) Plenty of people have waived with NTC/NMC - who says Mitch is going to waive? 4) Retain cap, it's not like this is the first time a team retains salary. Rielly? Do we forget he was the second guy who let Pasta get by him, Mitch was the first. Trade mitch because he is a petulant child - Yes he is 100%, so are Matty and Willie but they get a pass because they signed a contract first? Makes no sense.

Every argument and I mean every argument that has been posted here has framed it in such a way that they dismiss every thing until the framed statement is so narrow you come to only one conclusion.

The team needs significant changes, I agree but why one person and not another has never been effectively articulated

 

[Hellcat]

Sorry, dude, but I thought it was worth sending along what I hope will be a helpful, if rudimentary, pointer about English grade school grammar: plurals shouldn't have apostrophes.

Appreciate the grammar lesson but it's not a comma, it's an apostrophe and yes I used an apostrophe incorrectly. BTW you can use an apostrophe in plural if you put it after the "s" and it is a noun.

 

[Hellcat]

Fantastic! I didn't read his nonsense closely so I didn't even notice that, so cool that you did! I guess the self proclaimed grammar policeman just got fired.

Genius ... " ' " is not a comma ... you just keep digging that hole deeper, proving my point again and again.

 

[Racer88]

I agree. But, I am just saying that today’s society right now is more PC then its ever been before and those kinds of comments would be less tolerated then they’ve ever been.

Some times it is taken to far for sure.
Life is a big pendulum, always swinging to far in either direction.

 

[myleafs]

I am sorry, am I wrong?

Your suggesting that if we didn't live in a pc world you would be able to be as hateful as you want to be, so yea....wow.

 

[myleafs]

Why Marner, how about Matty, Rielly, JT, Nylander... why is Marner the whipping boy. Hey the guy has a punchable face, he is a clone of the frat boy douche bags from crappy 80's movies, with the popped polo shirt collars, I get it he looks and acts like an entitled child but why does every one have such a hard on for trading a 90 to 100 point guy when there is a guy who makes more $$$$, his skills are declining and is producing at a rate of 25% to 30% less already? We would never get fair value for mitch plus JT will probably be gone in a year. Are we signing Draisaitl next summer?

This is the Marner thread right?

if we swapped divisions the Oilers would have missed the playoffs ...they play in a wide open and weak division, that we walked over, and they struggled vs our division.

Riiiiiiiiiight

 

[ToneDog]

Edmonton's top 6 isn't better, but they perform better when it's important.

The teams are basically the same except that the Edmonton team perform when it's important.

You don't see the dichotomy?

McD > Matty
Drai > Nylander
Hyman < Marner
RNH > Tavares
Kane > Knies
Henrique = Domi ??

 

[Petrus]

Sigh ... I have and no one can intelligently articulate why Mitch? Can't trade Willie and AM they just signed contracts... is there a rule in the CBA that says you cant get traded in the 1st year of your contract? Stupid logic... Next. Can't trade JT he is the Captain, he wont waive, no one wants him, cap hit too high. 1) Who cares if he is a Captain, Leafs have traded and/or attempted to trade almost every Captain since the early 90's 2) No one wants one of the best down low and face off centers in the league, who can get you 70 points? Sure, no one wants that. 3) Plenty of people have waived with NTC/NMC - who says Mitch is going to waive? 4) Retain cap, it's not like this is the first time a team retains salary. Rielly? Do we forget he was the second guy who let Pasta get by him, Mitch was the first. Trade mitch because he is a petulant child - Yes he is 100%, so are Matty and Willie but they get a pass because they signed a contract first? Makes no sense.

Every argument and I mean every argument that has been posted here has framed it in such a way that they dismiss every thing until the framed statement is so narrow you come to only one conclusion.

The team needs significant changes, I agree but why one person an not another has never been effectively articulated

I do believe Marner is under-appreciated by our fan base.

Whether it is his public negotiations of his contract, “shambles” / “god” comment, and handling of criticism, Marner is not very media savvy and it results in more than his fair share of criticism from the fanbase.

The reality is all members of the core deserve equal blame for the disastrous playoff performances to date.

 

[666]

Nikita Kucherov is coming off a league leading 144 point regular season including 100 assists and was the 2 X playoffs leading scorer on back to back TB Cup wins recently.

How well does he play in his own zone?

 

[Stephen]

Completely different than Willie. From the start, both sides seem to want to work on a deal, just can’t agree on the price. With MM, it seems like at least one side if not both don’t want to work on a deal.
Utah still got pieces that would interest MM and with that Durzi’s contract, think they will have no problem making MM the highest paid winger in the league.
Keller, Njugstad, 1st and 2nd for MM would be a good deal.

You always get this middle brother vibe from Marner that he doesn’t get the big boy treatment Matthews gets and he’s upset every time he’s gotta sit in the back seat with Willie.

 

[myleafs]

McD > Matty
Drai > Nylander
Hyman < Marner
RNH > Tavares
Kane > Knies
Henrique = Domi ??

I would take Henrique over Domi as he slots into that 3rd line centre position better imo and easily take Hyman over Marner for the playoffs and for the money difference would take him in the regular season and spend that extra 6 on another player. Oilers would miss the playoffs if in Leafs division but Leafs would succeed if in Oilers? This place has gone loco.

 

[Stephen]

I do believe Marner is under-appreciated by our fan base.

Whether it is his public negotiations of his contract, “shambles” / “god” comment, and handling of criticism, Marner is not very media savvy and it results in more than his fair share of criticism from the fanbase.

The reality is all members of the core deserve equal blame for the disastrous playoff performances to date.

I would say Matthews deserves a lot more of the heat that Marner gets and escapes it as the traditional golden child.

But it also makes sense to some degree when we play Leaf Survivor because you figure Matthews has more of the tools to one day turn it around whereas with Marner it’s a longer shot. To put it gently.

 

[myleafs]

I do believe Marner is under-appreciated by our fan base.

Whether it is his public negotiations of his contract, “shambles” / “god” comment, and handling of criticism, Marner is not very media savvy and it results in more than his fair share of criticism from the fanbase.

The reality is all members of the core deserve equal blame for the disastrous playoff performances to date.

This is true but if you could pick just 2 of the 3 to go into the playoffs with who would you pick? Its about cap allocation now and getting out from the 4 taking up so much of it and Marner is the odd man out at the moment. Read the other threads on our core pieces, nobody is letting 34, 88, 91 off the hook.

 

[ToneDog]

I would take Henrique over Domi as he slots into that 3rd line centre position better imo and easily take Hyman over Marner for the playoffs and for the money difference would take him in the regular season and spend that extra 6 on another player. Oilers would miss the playoffs if in Leafs division but Leafs would succeed if in Oilers? This place has gone loco.

This year's Hyman definitely > Marner but if I said what you said, it would be an Oilers sweep.

Yeah Oilers missing the playoffs if they were in the East is a baseless claim When the games are played for keeps, Leafs are proven losers. Oilers have been steadily getting better and were 2 goals away from winning the SC. Our biggest accomplishments in 10 years under Shanny is a lottery win, winning the North (LOL) and taking one game from the Panthers in round #2.

I would say Matthews deserves a lot more of the heat that Marner gets and escapes it as the traditional golden child.

But it also makes sense to some degree when we play Leaf Survivor because you figure Matthews has more of the tools to one day turn it around whereas with Marner it’s a longer shot. To put it gently.

Matty was good in game #1, won us game #2. Much more than Marner accomplished in 7 games.

Matty also did not throw any hissy fits.