Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Gary Nylund]

Buffalo and Calgary both exited in the 1st round 5 consecutive`times, Hartford whalers 6 times. To go 1 and 8 is tough because first off you have to be good enough to qualify 8 times.

hell we even booed my favourite all time Leaf (Mahovlich) just because he couldn’t score 2 goals to get to 50. I’m surprised we didn’t boo Mathews for not getting 70. Fans have gotten soft.

So the Whalers did 6 in a row, just like us. Seems like a very rare event in any case.

I think every team other than Vegas has qualified 8 times, a team could go 1-8 in say a 12 year span.

In any case, like I said, we have a good regular season team but at the same time, a really crappy playoff team. I think that's beyond dispute at this point.

I would stop replying to that user. He stoop so low that he mocked me again on the Jani post about passing tests. Seems like someone needs to learn insecurity

Yes, it's a waste of time. But I'm just killing time while working so every now and then I call him out for his daily BS. I think of it as a public service, kind of like a warning sign: Danger, a steaming heap of BS straight ahead.

 

[Tak7]

I get what you're saying but I don't see it. Is this just a new found philosophy?

Not really - how many unsafe or risky moves have they made since the Matthews era began?

 

[colchar]

It would have taken guts like I said, but there is no reason whatsoever that it couldn't have been done.

Yes, there were. You do not pull off a deal like that so quickly.

 

[ACC1224]

Not really - how many unsafe or risky moves have they made since the Matthews era began?

I don't know off the top of my head, Andersen? Moving 1sts at the deadline? I don't know that there has been much opportunity for it.
Bottoming out for Marner and Matthews was a new approach that could be seen as risky I suppose.

Anyway, getting off topic.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, there were. You do not pull off a deal like that so quickly.

Why not? My suggestion was to shop him around the league and take the best offer. You don't think any teams would be interested?

 

[Bomber0104]

Why not? My suggestion was to shop him around the league and take the best offer. You don't think any teams would be interested?

Probably not possible considering Shanahan called all four of them already and told them they're all staying and not getting traded.

Why would Treliving get to overrule his own boss' mandate?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner needs to be way better but there's actually hope with Marner because he has the high end skill that Tavares does not and he's in his prime years. Marner could easily go off next playoffs if he has fan and team support.

Even if we move both Tavares and Marner, allocating 22 million dollars efficiently with almost no star players available will be a near impossible task.

There's no Huberdeau-Tkachuk type trade available right now. There is no good trade for Marner available right now. It's either support him or complain for the next 12 months. But if leafs fans support him, there's a higher chance he will have a good playoffs in 24-25. If we drive him out of town, there might not be a replacement for him like the way Florida was able to replace Huberdeau with Tkachuck because the trade environment is different. 100 point players are not easy to replace.

I think it's very optimistic to believe Marner will "go off next playoffs", but that's fine.

There may be "almost no star players available" as free agents right now, but right now would be a trade situation, not FA, and who knows what might be available as an FA next year, which is when the 22 million dollars becomes available.

We don't know that there is no good trade available right now. There are teams with good players, and in theory at least, anyone is available for the right price, which might be Marner.

 

[Confucius]

Surely Toronto fans wouldn't boo Mitchy right?

Fair weather fans would and we do have a few of those

 

[Gary Nylund]

Probably not possible considering Shanahan called all four of them already and told them they're all staying and not getting traded.

Why would Treliving get to overrule his own boss' mandate?

I don't know what's going on behind closed doors but if he didn't have permission to move Marner then fine, it's on Shanahan. All I'm saying is that if it was up to him, then he could have done it.

In his job interview, I assume he was asked what he thinks should be done to fix things. If it was me in his place, I would have said that Marner needs to be moved, and that was not allowed, then I would have passed on the job.

Fair weather fans would and we do have a few of those

There are Marner fans, and then there are Leaf fans. Sounds like you're making the mistake of thinking there's no difference between the two.

 

[Sypher04]

I don't know what's going on behind closed doors but if he didn't have permission to move Marner then fine, it's on Shanahan. All I'm saying is that if it was up to him, then he could have done it.

In his job interview, I assume he was asked what he thinks should be done to fix things. If it was me in his place, I would have said that Marner needs to be moved, and that was not allowed, then I would have passed on the job.

Idk, I get what you’re saying, but I doubt many hockey people come in here for an interview making definitive declarations as to exactly who needs to go. They don’t know the inner workings of the team, the coaching, previous management etc. I think most if not all are assessing the situation from the inside before making proclamations of the precise personnel fixes. I think they talk more about directionally what they think needs to happen and not naming names.

If you’re right however it’s also possible that what you’re saying largely transpired but Tre views JT as the piece that needs to move and not also Marner. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to mention the difficulty of getting elite level talent.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Mitch has done 100 per 82 for the last 5 years. Willie has been a little over 80 the same time period. If you just pay based on Willies first 40 games of last season then his contract is fine but that is not his established level. The Bruins did not have a center who scored as well as Tavares yet Pasta scored 113 and 110 the last two years. Jt wasn't holding him back any more than Zacha held back Pasta.

Yes, if you have to go back many years and ignore context.

The biggest point is that Willy has been improving each year, even while JT is getting worse. Mitch hasn't been improving even though Matty has, and in particular has been getting worse in the playoffs.

Did you know that Zacha had one fewer ES points than JT? Plus Pastrnak and Zacha have been getting top line minutes, while JT and Willy have not. Isn't context wonderful?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Fair weather fans would and we do have a few of those

After what we’ve been through the past twenty years with one measly series win, I don’t think you can really claim the weather was ever fair. The fact that people still watch and go to games while enduring all the pathetic failures along the way shows they aren’t fair weather fans. I don’t think it’s right to boo him but Leafs fans are the farthest thing from fair weather fans.

A lot of us are just sick of literally doing nothing different when it’s clear this core can’t get it done. Tanev, OEL and Stolarz are not going to propel us to the promised land.

 

[1specter]

Blaming and criticizing the fans is always hilarious to me. Gives me Seymour Skinner vibes

 

[Gary Nylund]

Idk, I get what you’re saying, but I doubt many hockey people come in here for an interview making definitive declarations as to exactly who needs to go. They don’t know the inner workings of the team, the coaching, previous management etc. I think most if not all are assessing the situation from the inside before making proclamations of the precise personnel fixes. I think they talk more about directionally what they think needs to happen and not naming names.

If you’re right however it’s also possible that what you’re saying largely transpired but Tre views JT as the piece that needs to move and not also Marner. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to mention the difficulty of getting elite level talent.

Yeah as I said, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I think it's entirely possible though for someone who has been around as long as TRE to have an opinion that says the top heavy cap structure is probably never going to work and Marner is a different (lesser) player in the playoffs so moving him makes sense. I don't think that requires any knowledge of "the inner workings of the team" or coaching or anything else.

In an ideal scenario, Shanahan would have felt this way himself, then conducted interviews and hired a candidate that viewed the situation the same way.

 

[Confucius]

Blaming and criticizing the fans is always hilarious to me. Gives me Seymour Skinner vibes

Fans can do no wrong, the customer is always right. Sure!

 

[Stringer Bell]

I get what you're saying but I don't see it. Is this just a new found philosophy?

My goodness put a cork in your “I have to be a contrarian to every mainstream thought the common leafs fan has because it’s the only way to entertain myself as a 60+ year old on an Internet forum” act. We can all see through it.

This is not a “new found philosophy”. This is something many nhl hockey analysts have brought up numerous times over the past couple years and summer.

There is obviously real merit to it.

 

[Tak7]

Fair weather fans would and we do have a few of those

If fans were to boo Marner, it wouldn't be the fairweather ones doing it?

The fair weather ones would be those awkwardly tapping someone on the shoulder and asking "....uh..why?" obvious to the context.

 

[Stringer Bell]

I get what you're saying but I don't see it. Is this just a new found philosophy?

My goodness put a cork in your “I have to be a contrarian to every mainstream thought the common leafs fan has because it’s the only way to entertain myself as a 60+ year old on an Internet forum” act. We can all see through it.

This is not a “new found philosophy”. This is something many nhl hockey analysts have brought up numerous times over the past couple years and summer.

There is obviously real merit to it

 

[BRobMint]

I'm a Flames fan. I don't have anything to add to the Marner discussion other than this silly song I made for some buddies of mine that are Leafs fans. They all said it was funny so I figured I post it in here. Enjoy (some NSFW language):

 

[Gabriel426]

Our forward group is worse than the playoffs.
On paper it seems like only Bert left but in reality, JT is this year TJ.

Really insane that Stamkos and Marchessault makes as much as JT and Calle.
While Keller and Colton makes as much as MM and Kampf.

Would much rather have Stamkos, Marchessault, Keller and Colton on the Leafs.

Keller-AM-Marchessault
Domi-Stamkos-Willie
Knies-Colton-McMann

Looks a lot better than our current top 9.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If fans were to boo Marner, it wouldn't be the fairweather ones doing it?

The fair weather ones would be those awkwardly tapping someone on the shoulder and asking "....uh..why?" obvious to the context.

Well said sir, very well said indeed!

 

[HolyCrap]

I suggest Marner changes his number so his fans will be forced to buy new Marner jerseys.

Yeah, they are running it back but the are not winning anything with that forward group. You have to have a strong 3rd line and have to check to win a SC. Leafs have neither.

Yup. It really hits home how much this Leafs team is a massive fail. They tried building a contender and the only thing this team can do is make the playoffs and embarrass themselves. Hopefully the next rebuild is done right.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If buddy was making 8M this entire time I think my entire philosophy would be adjusted. I am obsessed with cap management and to be fair, you have to be. Seeing Guentzel and Reinhart signing for 8M and 9M deals, as playoff goal producers, is really sobering.

Nylander wouldn't have gotten 11.5M for 7 on the open market. We gave him 11.5Mx8

Marner will not get 12.5M on the open market. It doesn't make any sense. We probably can't trade the guy because the acquiring teams don't want his current cap hit. Nevermind adding to it!

Dubas botched this thing, and shame on Shanny for letting it carry on. Nylander, I love the guy, shows up in playoffs in big games. He shouldn't have gotten 11.5M. How did this happen? We have zero track record to be making these demands. We have cup winners making notably less per year

An equal trade isn't possible. A marner trade is a commitment to a new philosophy because the asset is distressed to put it lightly

 

[Antropovsky]

If they're contemplating making Matthews captain. Does that mean Tavares and Marner rotate the A? Or do they remove it from Marner?

 

[HolyCrap]

Amongst active teams to qualify for the playoffs, Currently tied with Boston for most consecutive years, at 8. Pretty good team I’d say.

JFC. I’m sorry but I laughed at this thinking you were joking. But I’m pretty sure you’re serious. Pretty sad.