Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[leafs in five]

Honestly, MM struggles bc the Leafs can’t sweep the other teams or get swept bc it those two are the cases, his playoffs stats would win him a Conn Symthe even if the Leafs lose in the first round.
As MM will no longer have those Game 5-7 playoffs stats.

Pretty sure his camp will use this argument to get him the Max Contract.

yeah they definitely will use that argument (great post btw)

 

[ZEBROA]

But Nylander wasn't making $11 million per year for 6 years on his last contract...Dubas drove hard with Nylander, but bent for Marner...Marner could scram and go somewhere else, he's all about the money, the worse out of the 3...I don't think there's a team in the NHL that will pay him his asks, nor should they...leeching points off of elite players in the regular season and goes missing in the playoffs...bent the Leafs last negotiations and will try to bend the Leafs again...Reinhart signed for $69 million dollars, and Marner thinks he's worth $100 million over the same term?

Yeah in my mind Nylander is paid in retrospective, at least in parts of the new deal. . But i dont think Marner will see it that way. If Marner want what i think i want they should just let him go. Spending those money wisely they should be able to create a better and more well balanced team. Even if Marner would be better overall, skillwise and pointwise.

 

[supermann_98]

This didn't happen and I don't think it can happen now because the cap space can't be used on anything because all the top FAs are gone, so I am now in favour of extending him if we can do it a reasonable number. $10M to $10.9M but not at a raise is my definition of a reasonable number. We then either have a bargain of he becomes a playoff performer or we have an asset to trade that does not become a UFA after one year, a UFA that could be asking for $13M. I think it increases his value considerably.

What I don't want is him walking as a UFA next year where we get nothing but cap space. That's not terrible, but it is my least favourite option

Agree with everything you're saying but this. We won't be able to move him as he will be on a new "reasonable" contract with a full NMC. Unless you can get him to agree to a limited NMC (get him to pick 10 teams he won't go to or something like that) you are handcuffed and you cannot make the changes suggested

 

[Notsince67]

Amazing people like yourself don't see the irony of posts such as this

2 years posting nonsense and you expect me to believe you know what irony means?

 

[hullsy47]

Your first four paragraphs don't dispute anything in my post, and the last one agrees with it.

I'm not sure that was your intent, but thanks.

I think if marner would come in with a team friendly deal
It would all go away .it's the holding out and threatening offers sheets that sour fans
If he plays it out he plays it out but he knows his most money is in Toronto

 

[conFABulator]

Agree with everything you're saying but this. We won't be able to move him as he will be on a new "reasonable" contract with a full NMC. Unless you can get him to agree to a limited NMC (get him to pick 10 teams he won't go to or something like that) you are handcuffed and you cannot make the changes suggested

That's the variable for sure. I can't imagine he doesn't go full NMC if we are asking for a discount. Another struggling playoff and some real organizational and fan pressure could cause him to waive. Eventually he would. It's not perfect, I agree

 

[supermann_98]

2 years posting nonsense and you expect me to believe you know what irony means?

Irony is your AV being a guy like Wendel Clark yet being such a sensitive sally when I direct my unhappiness at your little hero Marner

 

[GoonieFace]

So why is that then?

Why is that Mitch draws significantly more attention to himself in this regard than Matthews or Nylander? People just don't like his face or what?

For me personally, I see an incredibly gifted hockey player. But I also see a complete pus&y on the ice most of the time. If he just learned to fight through checks more often, I think the perception might change.

For others, I think they see a spoiled, entitled kid. Not saying it’s true, but that’s the vibe he gives off.

Some others just don’t like his face

 

[Nineteen67]

Barring injury, the reality is Marner is going to be on the team when camp opens, he’s going play for Team Canada in 4NC, he’s going to put up 90+ points, and when/if they make the playoffs we will get to evaluate the core once again.
I don’t know what they’ll do about an extension, but management feels like they’ve given the core enough to see if they can change the narrative. Maybe it’ll work. They should be able to keep the puck out of the net and if they can score at an average rate on the PP they should be able to win a round or two.

 

[ToneDog]

Barring injury, the reality is Marner is going to be on the team when camp opens, he’s going play for Team Canada in 4NC, he’s going to put up 90+ points, and when/if they make the playoffs we will get to evaluate the core once again.
I don’t know what they’ll do about an extension, but management feels like they’ve given the core enough to see if they can change the narrative. Maybe it’ll work. They should be able to keep the puck out of the net and if they can score at an average rate on the PP they should be able to win a round or two.

I suggest Marner changes his number so his fans will be forced to buy new Marner jerseys.

Yeah, they are running it back but the are not winning anything with that forward group. You have to have a strong 3rd line and have to check to win a SC. Leafs have neither.

 

[Canadian Finn]

but when you zoom out....

this place is amazing.

 

[DarkKnight]

Barring injury, the reality is Marner is going to be on the team when camp opens, he’s going play for Team Canada in 4NC, he’s going to put up 90+ points, and when/if they make the playoffs we will get to evaluate the core once again.
I don’t know what they’ll do about an extension, but management feels like they’ve given the core enough to see if they can change the narrative. Maybe it’ll work. They should be able to keep the puck out of the net and if they can score at an average rate on the PP they should be able to win a round or two.

The real caveat here, the pressure in this market should we get to the trade deadline and he’s unsigned. I don’t think that is tenable and I doubt the Leafs will either. That’s the real inflection point, imagine the media and fan buildup as he doesn’t sign and we get to the deadline. Unprecedented.

 

[Nineteen67]

I suggest Marner changes his number so his fans will be forced to buy new Marner jerseys.

Yeah, they are running it back but the are not winning anything with that forward group. You have to have a strong 3rd line and have to check to win a SC. Leafs have neither.

If they don’t have any success then they can decide next spring what they’ll do. Tavares will be off the books and they can either let Marner walk or sign him and try and move one of Matthews or Nylander.

They have a new coaching staff
Revamped D
Decent secondary scoring - Knies and Domi were good in the playoffs and McMann was out
PK should be really good. Tanev and Hak
The PP just needs to be average - Keefe is gone so it can’t be as bad or worse.than it was.

If the core can’t win a round and be competitive in the 2nd then destroy it.

 

[Nineteen67]

The real caveat here, the pressure in this market should we get to the trade deadline and he’s unsigned. I don’t think that is tenable and I doubt the Leafs will either. That’s the real inflection point, imagine the media and fan buildup as he doesn’t sign and we get to the deadline. Unprecedented.

That’s a legit concern. But it depends on how they’re playing and if things are going as planned then should be able to weather that. Berube should be a lot better than Keefe was at talking to the media.
If it’s a disaster then maybe they considering trading him.

 

[ToneDog]

The real caveat here, the pressure in this market should we get to the trade deadline and he’s unsigned. I don’t think that is tenable and I doubt the Leafs will either. That’s the real inflection point, imagine the media and fan buildup as he doesn’t sign and we get to the deadline. Unprecedented.

Anything is possible but if they learned anything from the Nylander contract, they need to wait if they decide to sign him (see Panthers and Reinhart), especially if they know Marner wants to stay.

Make him one take it or leave it offer like Tampa did Stamkos. If he walks, we got $22m in cap space next July 1. I'd offer Tavares a similar deal to what Tampa offered Stamkos ($2.5-3m x 8) and he can take it or leave it.

 

[DarkKnight]

That’s a legit concern. But it depends on how they’re playing and if things are going as planned then should be able to weather that. Berube should be a lot better than Keefe was at talking to the media.
If it’s a disaster then maybe they considering trading him.

Anything is possible but if they learned anything from the Nylander contract, they need to wait if they decide to sign him (see Panthers and Reinhart), especially if they know Marner wants to stay.

Make him one take it or leave it offer like Tampa did Stamkos. If he walks, we got $22m in cap space next July 1. I'd offer Tavares a similar deal to what Tampa offered Stamkos ($2.5-3m x 8) and he can take it or leave it.

Walking for nothing reminds me of Sundin.

I can’t see this fan base accepting him unsigned heading into the deadline. Also, this is Mitch, he is sensitive to the criticism, this will be beyond anything he’s seen to date. Guess we see, because he looks to start the year.

 

[ToneDog]

Walking for nothing reminds me of Sundin.

I can’t see this fan base accepting him unsigned heading into the deadline. Also, this is Mitch, he is sensitive to the criticism, this will be beyond anything he’s seen to date. Guess we see, because he looks to start the year.

Given how Nylander worked out in his favour, I am not so sure. If he does not give the Leafs a team friendly deal, underwhelms in the playoffs and they lose it round #1, he'll hear it.

 

[socko]

If the core can’t win a round and be competitive in the 2nd then destroy it.

I think that question has already been answered more than once.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Mitch needs to get paid more than Willy then we have a problem and you might be right that he won't take less. To me that's reason to let him walk.

I felt Tre came in too late to make that happen. He came in too late to have a proper off-season last year. The decision not to move Marner would be on Shanny.

Tre could have done it if he had the guts to do it. Or maybe Shanny told him not to, who knows. Whatever the case, whoever it's on, I think we can agree that the fact that Marner is still a Maple Leaf and his NMC is in full effect is a MISTAKE.

Let's assume the Leafs remove Tavares and sign Marner for 11.5M (We both know he wants way more).

Their top four players will now be earning a minimum of 43.75M. This is not even close to being in line with the Panthers. It is still significantly higher than every other group in the NHL.

On top of this, they have to give Knies a raise, replace Tavares, and Woll's extension will kick in. The money is gone right there. This is the birth of a proper treadmill team if they don't remove both Tavares and Marner.

Don't forget McCabe. I believe we're paying him about 2 million a year right now, that's not going to continue. Say Tavares resigns for around 4-5 million, all that's gonna do is enable us to keep the band together. Oh joy!

For me personally, I see an incredibly gifted hockey player. But I also see a complete pus&y on the ice most of the time. If he just learned to fight through checks more often, I think the perception might change.

For others, I think they see a spoiled, entitled kid. Not saying it’s true, but that’s the vibe he gives off.

Some others just don’t like his face

Harsh, but there's a lot of truth there. It's not so obvious during the regular season but after a few playoff games when everyone settles down into playoff mode, the games are hard hitting and everyone focuses on defence, this is exactly what Marner becomes.

 

[rumman]

We just gave one to Tanev, I think anyone is allowed to ask for one at this point.

Give it a couple more years of losing and players will be asking for movement clauses just to get out of Dodge……..

 

[nuck]

I think if marner would come in with a team friendly deal
It would all go away .it's the holding out and threatening offers sheets that sour fans
If he plays it out he plays it out but he knows his most money is in Toronto

Whats team friendly when the floor starts with Willie who is grossly overpaid? Mitch is 100pts per 82 games and Willie isa little over 80. Willie got Mitch's deal. I think if they didn't budge, Mitch reluctantly takes the same thing but can they afford that? And do they want to?

 

[colchar]

Tre could have done it if he had the guts to do it.

You expect him to have pulled off a deal like that in less than a month when he first took the job? Give your head a shake.

Hmm, interesting choice of words, considering you're the one who should probably take Marner out of your mouth.

 

[rumman]

The real caveat here, the pressure in this market should we get to the trade deadline and he’s unsigned. I don’t think that is tenable and I doubt the Leafs will either. That’s the real inflection point, imagine the media and fan buildup as he doesn’t sign and we get to the deadline. Unprecedented.

Leafs can easily fix this, they can ask him to waive and explain that they will not resign him after this season. Make it public and stay the course, Marner will eventually come to his senses and ask for a trade……….

 

[ACC1224]

Never understood why people feel the team is 'scared' to do something, just because they aren't doing what they wish.
Seems kind of insecure.

 

[howlman]

Surely Toronto fans wouldn't boo Mitchy right?