Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Craig Button]

So why is that then?

Why is that Mitch draws significantly more attention to himself in this regard than Matthews or Nylander? People just don't like his face or what?

Mob behaviour plus mental illness

 

[conFABulator]

Another obvious "influencer"!

Is that directed at me? Can you explain it? Not as obvious to me as you seem to think it should be.

What was your suggestion again? Trade the whiner? Can you expand on that? Tell me how that helps us exactly?

Tavares at 37-38....wonder what that would look like....

Fair. $3M on a $110M cap seems ok for a guy that can probably see till get 10 to 15 goals.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Is that directed at me? Can you explain it? Not as obvious to me as you seem to think it should be.

What was your suggestion again? Trade the whiner? Can you expand on that? Tell me how that helps us exactly?

Zzzzzz. It's not up to me to come up with "solutions". It's up to the highly paid GM and President.

Trade Marner.

 

[conFABulator]

Yes he should... somewhere else...

Ok. He would get $5M somewhere else. I like getting the deal and keeping the hometown captain.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nylander has outscored Marner in one playoff.

They tied 3 times.

Marner outscored Nylander 4 times.

2/3 of the most recent years Marner produced more, they tied this year.

Nylander is not struggling anywhere close to how Marner is.

They tied this year and how many games did they play? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

If you watch the games and understand hockey even a little bit, then you know that after the first few playoff games Marner disappears. Why don't you post the stats that show Marner's production per game regular season, then the first 4 games of the playoffs, and then the void that follows - those are the stats that tell the real story. When the pressure rises, Marner becomes useless whereas Nylander just keeps on truckin'.

Sorry if this has already been posted, even with my ignore list I can't be bothered to read most of the garbage here. Interesting.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808225909188841814

So they pitched the guy on playing with Marner and he wasn't interested, maybe Marner isn't the big selling point you think. He'd rather play with McDavid or Draisaitl on a team that has shown they can compete in the playoffs, what a shocker.

I wanted him to waive too. The only way we were getting any fair value for him was if we waived and we got some pieces along with cap space we could use on free agents that could make us better this year. Those guys are signed now. There is not getting better this year by trading him.

I am not a MM hater and I don't believe ai have ever hear Mitch whine, so I am not sure how we call him a whiner. The best way to get value IMO is a to extend him (at a discount), hope that he grows under Berube and if not, trade him with an extension next year. He will eventually waive, we don't even know if he was asked to this year.

What's your plan on exactly? Trade him wher? For what? How do we get better now or in the future with this plan?

He seems whiny to me at times but maybe self entitled and petulant describes him better. I'm mostly thinking of him in interviews after we get blown out of the playoffs talking about how great everyone played and how he doesn't give a shit what anyone "outside the room" thinks.

How do we get better without him? I'd ask how do we not get better without him? Regular season sure we'll take a hit but once we're 4 games into the playoffs and he looks disinterested as some have said or just plain scared, he becomes a non-factor. It would be a neat trick if you could take that 11 million in cap space and not improve on that empty space that Marner is when the pressure is on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well to be fair 34 gets a free pass, guy finally shows up for one playoff game and he's anointed Mark Messier here. Best goal scorer in the league pots ONE goal in last two playoff series and it's crickets. Marner deserves scorn, plenty to go around and the big gun and his blanks strangely omitted from discussion, with an obscene price tag too. If 34 ever came through we wouldn't even be talking about Marner.

It's as if you're unaware that there's a thread for discussion about Matthews. Why don't you wander over there sometime, or do you not want to have your illusions shattered?

Cliff notes - you're blissfully disconnected from reality.

 

[francis246]

I wanted him to waive too. The only way we were getting any fair value for him was if we waived and we got some pieces along with cap space we could use on free agents that could make us better this year. Those guys are signed now. There is not getting better this year by trading him.

I am not a MM hater and I don't believe ai have ever hear Mitch whine, so I am not sure how we call him a whiner. The best way to get value IMO is a to extend him (at a discount), hope that he grows under Berube and if not, trade him with an extension next year. He will eventually waive, we don't even know if he was asked to this year.

What's your plan on exactly? Trade him wher? For what? How do we get better now or in the future with this plan?

Agreed, the best case scenario is to extend Marner to a reasonable contract with no trade protection or a limited trade protection and move him next off-season. Kinda glad we didn’t move him this year. The return wasn’t there and this UFA wasn’t great, we would have signed some horrible contracts. Next years crop is way better

 

[myleafs]

Name a team othe rthan perhaps Ottawa that is as incompetent as the Leafs mgmt……..

Columbus

 

[diceman934]

The only problem with Marner is that a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor. Great player otherwise and if you don't care about winning playoff rounds, he's a keeper.

So why trade the player with the most playoff points. Logic would dictate that he would be the last to go.

 

[francis246]

ROR obviously knows a gong show when he sees one, couldn’t get out of here fast enough, and who could blame him…….

ROR didn’t have a problem with Management. He thought keefe was an idiot. That’s why he left. He left because keefe was unwilling to give him PP time and didn’t want to put him back with Marner and Tavares in the playoffs. He felt like that line should have been put back together against Florida.

Again comes down to opportunity.

 

[Menzinger]

ROR didn’t have a problem with Management. He thought keefe was an idiot. That’s why he left. He left because keefe was unwilling to give him PP time and didn’t want to put him back with Marner and Tavares in the playoffs. He felt like that line should have been put back together against Florida.

Again comes down to opportunity.

He also clearly wanted to play in a warm weather US market. He snubbed The Blues, the team he won the cup with to head south to Tennessee without hesitation

 

[Sypher04]

He also clearly wanted to play in a warm weather US market. He snubbed The Blues, the team he won the cup with to head south to Tennessee without hesitation

He also publicly commented on not liking the media scrutiny.

 

[francis246]

He also clearly wanted to play in a warm weather US market. He snubbed The Blues, the team he won the cup with to head south to Tennessee without hesitation

That too, but he did do an interview on why he left. He mentioned he felt the lines could have been changed and the coaching staff made no adjustments against Florida.

His brother lived in Nashville and convinced him to sign there and it would be good to raise his kids there.

 

[conFABulator]

They tied this year and how many games did they play? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

If you watch the games and understand hockey even a little bit, then you know that after the first few playoff games Marner disappears. Why don't you post the stats that show Marner's production per game regular season, then the first 4 games of the playoffs, and then the void that follows - those are the stats that tell the real story. When the pressure rises, Marner becomes useless whereas Nylander just keeps on truckin'.


So they pitched the guy on playing with Marner and he wasn't interested, maybe Marner isn't the big selling point you think. He'd rather play with McDavid or Draisaitl on a team that has shown they can compete in the playoffs, what a shocker.


He seems whiny to me at times but maybe self entitled and petulant describes him better. I'm mostly thinking of him in interviews after we get blown out of the playoffs talking about how great everyone played and how he doesn't give a shit what anyone "outside the room" thinks.

How do we get better without him? I'd ask how do we not get better without him? Regular season sure we'll take a hit but once we're 4 games into the playoffs and he looks disinterested as some have said or just plain scared, he becomes a non-factor. It would be a neat trick if you could take that 11 million in cap space and not improve on that empty space that Marner is when the pressure is on.

Thanks. Thanks for explaining whiny in a way I can understand and probably even agree with.

As for getting better without him; he is a 100-point guy and that gets us to the playoffs in a tough division and conference and maybe just maybe he figures it out in the playoffs, or maybe if we get him for 8 x $10M we have a bargain of a player that is 60th highest paid in the league and still getting a point per game, or maybe we move him for something of value.

Letting him walk at the end of this only works for us if we can take his $10M and spend it on a player of equal or higher value as a free agent. Do we see these guys as FA's next year? Draisatl isn't leaving Edmonton and he is getting $13M+.

Now if Mitch wants $12M+ next year, then I do let him walk for a bunch of reasons.

 

[Hellcat]

JT gets a free pass? Like are you actually new around here or something?

Do you see a thread titled John Tavares on the first page of the Maple Leafs Forum discussing his pending trade? I dont. Yes he gets a pass.

 

[Notsince67]

and you'd probably be taken more seriously if you actually had the teams interest in mind instead of Mitch Marner's

Amazing people like yourself believing your ranting is a public service

 

[ACC1224]

Sorry if this has already been posted, even with my ignore list I can't be bothered to read most of the garbage here. Interesting.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808225909188841814

What winger wouldn’t prefer to play with McDavid over Matthews? You see Hymans numbers and it’s no contest

 

[Hellcat]

After the first few games, he stops producing.

He's not "the scapegoat", plenty of blame to go around but he's supposed to be an elite point producer and if he keeps fading into nothingness when the pressure is on, he deserves his share of blame and it's a pretty big share. For an 11 million cap hit, he needs to do more than kill penalties and as far as him being on those special teams, how much praise do you want to heap on him for that when those special teams suck and blow in the playoffs as they've been doing.

Yes JT has also been a massive disappointment but I think everyone agrees that we're not paying him big money after his contract is up. What baffles me is why would we want to commit to Marner for another long term deal at top dollar?

Change may or may not produce better results, that's obvious. But isn't it even more obvious by now that rolling it back isn't going to work? 1-8 in playoff series, we could be 1-11 three years from now with Marner still disappearing when the pressure is on and locked up for another 6 years at top dollar, how does that picture look?

Moving on from Marner is risky. But giving him another sweetheart of a contract at this point seems more risky, a lot more!

You're missing the forest for the trees. PK is not easy minutes, its tough minutes and he still has the ability to hit PPG stats. Very few players produce every game in the playoffs, McDavid didn't produce a point in Game 6 or 7, in the most important games of his career, should he get the same vitriol as Marner? As you say he disappeared.

Does he deserve blame for the 1 - 8 record, sure he does but not alone, but it seems like a lot of poster here blame him and only him. the story goes, we are not trading Matty, Willie gets a pass because we just signed him, great logic there.... JT well JT is old and who would want him, another construct to build the only possible person that we can trade, is Mitch narrative.

Maybe the coach was a f-ing moron that has no clue how to manage the playoff game? Maybe the guy who refuses to adjust during the playoffs is more of the reason why we are 1 -8? Maybe the reason why our offence dry's up every playoff series is because our coach is getting out coached... nah not possible ...

 

[Gary Nylund]

So why trade the player with the most playoff points. Logic would dictate that he would be the last to go.

Copy/paste from my post you're responding to:

"a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor."

That's why you trade him and to make it clear, here are numbers posted by someone else earlier:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

I want playoff success and it doesn't make sense to spend that much cap space on someone who gets smaller as the games get bigger. If he compiles points when there's no pressure and then turns into a creampuff when the pressure's on, what good is he?

Thanks. Thanks for explaining whiny in a way I can understand and probably even agree with.

As for getting better without him; he is a 100-point guy and that gets us to the playoffs in a tough division and conference and maybe just maybe he figures it out in the playoffs, or maybe if we get him for 8 x $10M we have a bargain of a player that is 60th highest paid in the league and still getting a point per game, or maybe we move him for something of value.

Letting him walk at the end of this only works for us if we can take his $10M and spend it on a player of equal or higher value as a free agent. Do we see these guys as FA's next year? Draisatl isn't leaving Edmonton and he is getting $13M+.

Now if Mitch wants $12M+ next year, then I do let him walk for a bunch of reasons.

Yeah, maybe he figures it out. For me it's just so hard to gamble on that considering his history. And it's not just a couple of years either, he's 5 years into a 6 year deal so the pattern is well established. Signing up for another 7/8 years of Marner seems like such a huge risk that it borders on being suicidal

If he'd sign for $10M, I'd probably do it. It's still a gamble but it would show a positive attitude adjustment on his part and I believe that whatever's holding him back is in his head so that's why I'd do it. I think there's zero chance of him taking that deal though, all these star players have egos, taking a discount is very rare and Marner especially seems to have a bigger ego than most (never admits he deserves any blame for our annual failures) so yeah, this isn't happening.

I disagree that we need to spend his cap on an equal value player. Spend it on say two 6 million dollar players or even three 4 million dollar players. Choose the right players and we have a much better balanced lineup, sounds good to me. And as I've said earlier, my main focus is playoffs and considering how badly he plays when the pressure is on, it would be hard to spend that cap elsewhere and not be a tougher out.

 

[Notsince67]

Most goals and points in the season he spent the least time with Marner?

Sure a bunch more than he would have with Nylander

 

[Gary Nylund]

You're missing the forest for the trees. PK is not easy minutes, its tough minutes and he still has the ability to hit PPG stats. Very few players produce every game in the playoffs, McDavid didn't produce a point in Game 6 or 7, in the most important games of his career, should he get the same vitriol as Marner? As you say he disappeared.

Does he deserve blame for the 1 - 8 record, sure he does but not alone, but it seems like a lot of poster here blame him and only him. the story goes, we are not trading Matty, Willie gets a pass because we just signed him, great logic there.... JT well JT is old and who would want him, another construct to build the only possible person that we can trade, is Mitch narrative.

Maybe the coach was a f-ing moron that has no clue how to manage the playoff game? Maybe the guy who refuses to adjust during the playoffs is more of the reason why we are 1 -8? Maybe the reason why our offence dry's up every playoff series is because our coach is getting out coached... nah not possible ...

Blaming only him is dumb. I don't know that many people are doing that but whatever. Marner's disappearing act is an annual event, he's a fraction of the player McDavid is, come on now.

Nobody gets a pass, plenty of blame to go around but Marner's at the top of my shit list and I do believe he deserves to be there.

 

[Notsince67]

They tied this year and how many games did they play? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

If you watch the games and understand hockey even a little bit, then you know that after the first few playoff games Marner disappears. Why don't you post the stats that show Marner's production per game regular season, then the first 4 games of the playoffs, and then the void that follows - those are the stats that tell the real story. When the pressure rises, Marner becomes useless whereas Nylander just keeps on truckin'.


So they pitched the guy on playing with Marner and he wasn't interested, maybe Marner isn't the big selling point you think. He'd rather play with McDavid or Draisaitl on a team that has shown they can compete in the playoffs, what a shocker.


He seems whiny to me at times but maybe self entitled and petulant describes him better. I'm mostly thinking of him in interviews after we get blown out of the playoffs talking about how great everyone played and how he doesn't give a shit what anyone "outside the room" thinks.

How do we get better without him? I'd ask how do we not get better without him? Regular season sure we'll take a hit but once we're 4 games into the playoffs and he looks disinterested as some have said or just plain scared, he becomes a non-factor. It would be a neat trick if you could take that 11 million in cap space and not improve on that empty space that Marner is when the pressure is on.

This is how a casual sees things

 

[notbias]

They tied this year and how many games did they play? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

If you watch the games and understand hockey even a little bit, then you know that after the first few playoff games Marner disappears. Why don't you post the stats that show Marner's production per game regular season, then the first 4 games of the playoffs, and then the void that follows - those are the stats that tell the real story. When the pressure rises, Marner becomes useless whereas Nylander just keeps on truckin'.

I'm just posting stats, sorry if they offend you.

Games played do not matter when comparing points, I've learned that from this thread, as Marner is not a 100 point player despite pacing for ~300 games.

Therefore, Nylander = Marner this playoffs when comparing points.

Can you break things down by each game for each player? I need the full view of things, grouping them by 1-4 and 5-7 is idiotic, we need it on a per game basis.

 

[notbias]

Copy/paste from my post you're responding to:

"a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor."

That's why you trade him and to make it clear, here are numbers posted by someone else earlier:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

I want playoff success and it doesn't make sense to spend that much cap space on someone who gets smaller as the games get bigger. If he compiles points when there's no pressure and then turns into a creampuff when the pressure's on, what good is he?

Just so you know, by this logic, Tavares > Matthews.

I just want you to say that Tavares is better than Matthews.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

Does anyone actually think Marner would sign a deal without a total nmc?