Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[notDatsyuk]

The same team that gave Nylander 11.5 with a full NMC. Only one team dumb enough. You cheer for it.

Giving Nylander $11.5 is a lot less if an overpayment than giving Marner $12.5!

Are you implying that you don't cheer for the same team?

 

[Notsince67]

Question.

Let’s say MM is back next season

Does that mean he is really not as good as some here might think, since teams are not offering much for him?

I'm trying to understand your question but am failing to.

Giving Nylander $11.5 is a lot less if an overpayment than giving Marner $12.5!

Are you implying that you don't cheer for the same team?

Based on Willys contract, 12.5 would be a relative bargain.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Based on Willys contract, 12.5 would be a relative bargain.

You're clearly still labouring under the mistaken idea that Marner is worth more than Nylander, despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Nineteen67]

The way I see things , management realizes Marner hasn't been playing to his potential and with the right psychological approach. He just turned 27. They just fired Keefe who had a country club like atmosphere where the core 4 ran the team. I think they want to see if Marner can transform his game for his new coach. Give him a new slate and see if he can put it all together. Maybe he works out harder and starts going into corners and develops a mean side to him. Not likely but if any coach would inspire a player do so it would be Berube.

Marner could start taking his off seasons seriously and start to change his whole psychological approach. Like Yzerman did half way through his career. Imagine a grittier defensively sound Marner that PKs and puts up 100 points and has a decent playoffs? I think that's what management is hoping for this season and then you throw the bank at him. Tavares will be gone too.

I really want to see if Berube can change Marner.

Yzerman’s success had more to do with the fact that he got a better supporting cast than his psychological approach.

 

[Nineteen67]

You're clearly still labouring under the mistaken idea that Marner is worth more than Nylander, despite the evidence to the contrary.

They should keep with tradition and re-sign Marner at 12.75 x 4.

 

[DarkKnight]

The way I see things , management realizes Marner hasn't been playing to his potential and with the right psychological approach. He just turned 27. They just fired Keefe who had a country club like atmosphere where the core 4 ran the team. I think they want to see if Marner can transform his game for his new coach. Give him a new slate and see if he can put it all together. Maybe he works out harder and starts going into corners and develops a mean side to him. Not likely but if any coach would inspire a player do so it would be Berube.

Marner could start taking his off seasons seriously and start to change his whole psychological approach. Like Yzerman did half way through his career. Imagine a grittier defensively sound Marner that PKs and puts up 100 points and has a decent playoffs? I think that's what management is hoping for this season and then you throw the bank at him. Tavares will be gone too.

I really want to see if Berube can change Marner.

This could happen. Keefe deferred to the players, he never had the gravitas to truly lead. Berube comes in here full of pedigree, he will get 100 percent buy in, when he tells Mitch to shoot the puck in prime areas, Marner will listen. We’re a north south team, you’re buying in? I’m sure Marner has already told him he is, Berube will hold to account, Marner may very well succeed yet.

Look, the guy was brutal for stretches of the playoffs this year, he was trying but shying away, deferring, just not what it takes to win in the playoffs. So, criticism is warranted if he ever finds it. That said, he still could. And I’d add big sexy too, 34 has one dominant playoff game finally and this place anointed him the next Mark Messier, apart from that the same underwhelming playoff performer.

Marner may go, he may stay, if he does stay, I for one will hope Berube is the guy to get his better prepared to excel in tighter hockey. The best part about sport, you can always change the narrative. Look no further than Phil f***ing Kessel.

 

[ToneDog]

They should keep with tradition and re-sign Marner at 12.75 x 4.

Willie @ 11.5m was dumb. I can see them now blowing their brains out by giving Marner 12.5.

Three players who are 1 and 8 in the playoffs getting $37.25m would have to be the biggest joke in the NHL.

 

[Nineteen67]

Willie @ 11.5m was dumb. I can see them now blowing their brains out by giving Marner 12.5.

Three players who are 1 and 8 in the playoffs getting $37.25m would have to be the biggest joke in the NHL.

In order to sell a Marner re-signing they have to market another off-season championship so it’ll probably be announced around the start of training camp.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Willie @ 11.5m was dumb. I can see them now blowing their brains out by giving Marner 12.5.

Three players who are 1 and 8 in the playoffs getting $37.25m would have to be the biggest joke in the NHL.

haha, the thing about jokes is that if you tell the same one over and over, eventually, people stop thinking it's funny and no longer think it's a joke.

could be the same strategy that we're seeing unfold here.

 

[ToneDog]

In order to sell a Marner re-signing they have to market another off-season championship so it’ll probably be announced around the start of training camp.

This year the plan is to beef up the D. If that fails, next year we can bring in the best goalie in the NHL. At that point, is there anything they have not tried surrounding these clowns with?

 

[GoonieFace]

This could happen. Keefe deferred to the players, he never had the gravitas to truly lead. Berube comes in here full of pedigree, he will get 100 percent buy in, when he tells Mitch to shoot the puck in prime areas, Marner will listen. We’re a north south team, you’re buying in? I’m sure Marner has already told him he is, Berube will hold to account, Marner may very well succeed yet.

Look, the guy was brutal for stretches of the playoffs this year, he was trying but shying away, deferring, just not what it takes to win in the playoffs. So, criticism is warranted if he ever finds it. That said, he still could. And I’d add big sexy too, 34 has one dominant playoff game finally and this place anointed him the next Mark Messier, apart from that the same underwhelming playoff performer.

Marner may go, he may stay, if he does stay, I for one will hope Berube is the guy to get his better prepared to excel in tighter hockey. The best part about sport, you can always change the narrative. Look no further than Phil f***ing Kessel.

Phil Kessel was always good in the playoffs though. Kessel has speed to burn and is a natural goal scorer. Marner is neither of those things.

Maybe Berube can get through to him, but he’s 27, if he hasn’t figured it out by now, I’m not sure what his deal is.

 

[MCR74]

Ya, his matters.

Berube will change his tune. Give it time. If the Leafs re-sign Marner, it'll be another 8 years of him doing absolutely jack shit when it matters most (which might end up costing Berube his job).

 

[Ports]

His previous contract was $2M.

View attachment 889775

He re-signed in Pittsburgh for $700k.

Which means.Pittsburgh got their player for 1/3 his QO. All because Dubas made this trade. No wonder Pittsburgh was so willing to hire him.

Dubas was already working for them.

Edit: the only way they could have had an understanding in place first was if Rodrigues agreed to take a 66.67% pay cut first, which I doubt.

Or at least the understanding was that Dubas wasn’t going to Qualify him thereby making him a UFA who could go back Pittsburgh . Signing for 1/3 of his previous salary at that young an age is surprising though.

 

[Notsince67]

You're clearly still labouring under the mistaken idea that Marner is worth more than Nylander, despite the evidence to the contrary.

Lol. You are living under an delusion. All things equal, nobody in the league would put them at par. It would be a losing bet to even predict Marner wouldn't easily exceed Nylanders career year this year on offense. Would be an interesting claim if Willy made first nhl all star even once.

 

[DarkKnight]

Phil Kessel was always good in the playoffs though. Kessel has speed to burn and is a natural goal scorer. Marner is neither of those things.

Maybe Berube can get through to him, but he’s 27, if he hasn’t figured it out by now, I’m not sure what his deal is.

All I said was maybe. He has heart, so it’s possible. I’m not optimistic either, but lots of guys find a new gear at his age, morph into something else. Maybe take him off the PK, focus on other things. The biggest thing for me, when you’re alone in the slot, stop thinking about a pass, especially when it’s Joel Edmundson, that’s the mentality he needs to change. He does that, all this other stuff is muted big time.

 

[capfit9]

Heard somewhere Mikko Rantanen will sign between 10.5 - 11 but it was more speculation.

 

[rumman]

I didn't say JT was better in the playoffs, just more the playoff type. Physical (both give and take), willing to go to the net, and a north-south style.

I would gladly be proven wrong about Mitch under Berube, but I don't think our leopard can change his stripe.

Zebras have stripes, leopards have spots……just busting your chops……..

 

[Mess]

They should keep with tradition and re-sign Marner at 12.75 x 4.

Which will keep another tradition alive and that is virtually guarantee a 1st round playoff exit annually in a Salary Cap World. However that's not the real main tradition that will be impacted...

Surely, nobody believes that these new industry high bloated contracts are coming out of the profit margins of MLSE who offered them. We should soon expect an announcement that ticket prices (which are already industry high) for admission and season ticket holders will be increased to offset Auston, Willy and Mitch's new deals. Those contract prices validating the need to increase viewing costs of fans favourite players to come and see them play in person.

So since these players proved unsuccessful at lower salary costs, perhaps paying the same under-performing playoff players more $$ will increase their productivity, as they will certainly increase MLSE profitability margins, So Ownership is covered regardless if that happens or not. Depending on the increases to consumers its almost like buying financial success independent of team and player performance the more they pay their stars.

As long as loyal Leaf fans keep handing over their hard earned dollars $$$ to see their favourite players play, the cycle doesn't need to change because their sold out Arena is filled to capacity.. What a world Leafs ownership lives in? The license to print money without accountability for results..

So the only real tradition that will continue to suffer is Stanley Cup competitiveness for Toronto. All it takes from time to time is some CEO to announce publicly that Leafs are serious about winning the Cup, that is the only thing that needs to change Ownership perception to the fan base otherwise its business as usual.

Its only a matter of time, before its confirmed that NO OTHER team but Toronto is willing to give Marner such a contract.

To some its the definition of insanity, but what do I know I've been following this team as a Fan since the 1960's, which makes me clinical insane by now. Speaking of time, hey what time is the next Leafs game on?

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Remember is dumbass commercial/ad when he first signed saying how important it was to get Gilmours number at the end of his contract?

He has a perfect opportunity to put his money where his mouth is and take 9.3 or at the VERY least, resign for the same contract since you accomplished nothing on the last one.

Lock up at 8 for a lot cheaper to show the fans you mean it or GTFO broskidoodle.

 

[rumman]

If Berube really believes this to be true then he obviously is more loyal to his large paycheque than winning playoff hockey.

FIRE HIM NOW!

It’s all BS till the start of the season, Marner’s going to be traded, of this I have no doubt……..

 

[ToneDog]

Heard somewhere Mikko Rantanen will sign between 10.5 - 11 but it was more speculation.

Reinhart $9-9.5m. Ranta $10.5-11m. Nylander $11.5m. Marner $12.5m. Matthews $13.25.

 

[Nineteen67]

Which will keep another tradition alive and that is virtually guarantee a 1st round playoff exit annually in a Salary Cap World. However that's not the real main tradition that will be impacted...

Surely, nobody believes that these new industry high bloated contracts are coming out of the profit margins of MLSE who offered them. We should soon expect an announcement that ticket prices (which are already industry high) for admission and season ticket holders will be increased to offset Auston, Willy and Mitch's new deals. Those contract prices validating the need to increase viewing costs of fans favourite players to come and see them play in person.

So since these players proved unsuccessful at lower salary costs, perhaps paying the same under-performing playoff players more $$ will increase their productivity, as they will certainly increase MLSE profitability margins, So Ownership is covered regardless if that happens or not. Depending on the increases to consumers its almost like buying financial success independent of team and player performance the more they pay their stars.

As long as loyal Leaf fans keep handing over their hard earned dollars $$$ to see their favourite players play, the cycle doesn't need to change because their sold out Arena is filled to capacity.. What a world Leafs ownership lives in? The license to print money without accountability for results..

So the only real tradition that will continue to suffer is Stanley Cup competitiveness for Toronto. All it takes from time to time is some CEO to announce publically that Leafs are serious about winning the Cup, that is the only thing that needs to change Ownership perception to the fan base otherwise it business as usual.

Its only a matter of time.

If they don’t trade him or re-sign him it could become a distraction all year and then if they make the playoffs he’ll once again be under the microscope to prove himself.

 

[rumman]

Reality is, Berube has no real idea what Marner is like in the dressing room or on the ice. Until he has to coach him and get him to play the way he wants him to. Until they are under fire and in the trenches together all the press snippets mean nothing

Hard to define a player over a cup of coffee, besides it’s not Berube’s job to decide whether he stays or goes……..

 

[socko]

Phil Kessel was always good in the playoffs though. Kessel has speed to burn and is a natural goal scorer. Marner is neither of those things.

Maybe Berube can get through to him, but he’s 27, if he hasn’t figured it out by now, I’m not sure what his deal is.

Kessel is such a poor example. The guy was always a big game guy that showed up in the playoffs or Olympics. He was the best player on bad teams, so he took punishment. But you replace Kessel with prime Wayne Gretzky and that team is still not winning a Cup. That team wasn't good, Phil just took the blame. And people were still pissed off about the trade for him. I get the attempt to compare, but it falls very short.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Phil Kessel was always good in the playoffs though. Kessel has speed to burn and is a natural goal scorer. Marner is neither of those things.

Maybe Berube can get through to him, but he’s 27, if he hasn’t figured it out by now, I’m not sure what his deal is.

Exactly. I was going to respond to this as well but you did it more succinctly than I probably would have. I would only add that I never had a problem with Kessel, not sure why people still think he wasn't a good player for us.

Lol. You are living under an delusion. All things equal, nobody in the league would put them at par. It would be a losing bet to even predict Marner wouldn't easily exceed Nylanders career year this year on offense. Would be an interesting claim if Willy made first nhl all star even once.

Regular season Marner>>>Nylander.
Playoffs Nylander>>>Marner.

That's all there is to it really so it just comes down to what you care about more, regular season or playoffs.

Nylander hit 98 point this season, Marner's best season is 99, then 97, 94 and 85 so thinking he'll "easily exceed Nylanders career year this year on offense" seems to be nothing more than homerism coming from a Marner fanboy, it isn't rational thinking that's for damn sure. And if Berube plays Domi with Mattnews instead of Marner which seems logical, than Marner's offence might end up being a lot less than you're hoping for.

All I said was maybe. He has heart, so it’s possible. I’m not optimistic either, but lots of guys find a new gear at his age, morph into something else. Maybe take him off the PK, focus on other things. The biggest thing for me, when you’re alone in the slot, stop thinking about a pass, especially when it’s Joel Edmundson, that’s the mentality he needs to change. He does that, all this other stuff is muted big time.

That's the sad state of affairs when it comes to both Marner and the team as a whole. The biggest thing we've got going for us is "anything's possible".