Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[nuck]

This is the same guy that traded picks that became Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel. Yeah let’s listen to him

To be fair the full piece says he thinks Marner is the more valuable player, but that the thinks Mitch would be the actual guy moved.

 

[1specter]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808559507053682808

It'a sad knowing this guy was our GM once. Explains why you keep getting let go from jobs. Still think Auston leaves for Arizona?

This moron set our franchise back many years..

 

[notDatsyuk]

​

Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has confirmed that multiple free agents crossed the Maple Leafs off their list due to the media and fans' treatment of Mitch Marner.​

Friedman revealed the news on Tuesday during an appearance on The Real Kyper and Bourne show following a very busy day one of free agency that saw over $1 billion worth of contracts handed out, between UFA deals and teams announcing lucrative extensions.​

The reality is that everyone simply wants results. If the Maple Leafs were to actually win when it matters and go on a lengthy run in the postseason every year, I don't think the market would be even half as volatile as it is now. However, routine failure does funny things to people and all of the added pressure is more just a market starved for success than anything else.

I can't say I blame them. Who would want to go to a team where a player is seriously underperforming yet a large portion of the media and fans are still saying he's going to be re-signed for an exorbitant amount?

Clearly there won't be the money available to sign enough good players to have a chance at the Cup. If you're a good player who hopes to be well paid and/or win the Cup, Toronto shouldn't be on your list.

 

[Confucius]

LOL. McDavid won the Conn Smythe despite being on the losing side (only the 6th player to do so) and scored the second most playoff points EVER.

Try again.

But when the real pressure was on he wilted…

 

[Aashir Mallik]

If buddy was making 8M this entire time I think my entire philosophy would be adjusted. I am obsessed with cap management and to be fair, you have to be. Seeing Guentzel and Reinhart signing for 8M and 9M deals, as playoff goal producers, is really sobering.

Nylander wouldn't have gotten 11.5M for 7 on the open market. We gave him 11.5Mx8

Marner will not get 12.5M on the open market. It doesn't make any sense. We probably can't trade the guy because the acquiring teams don't want his current cap hit. Nevermind adding to it!

Dubas botched this thing, and shame on Shanny for letting it carry on. Nylander, I love the guy, shows up in playoffs in big games. He shouldn't have gotten 11.5M. How did this happen? We have zero track record to be making these demands. We have cup winners making notably less per year

An equal trade isn't possible. A marner trade is a commitment to a new philosophy because the asset is distressed to put it lightly

I don't want to derail this from marner but nylander's contract made 0 sense even if he finished with 115 points

11.5*8 = 92 million. 92/7 = $13M/yr
so someone would have to pay nylander 13 a year to what we ended up giving him, considering what guentzel got on the "open" market, I highly highly doubt anyone would've paid this. Moreover, this doesn't take into consideration SB filled Front-loaded contract, and advertisement opportunities. I said it at the time and still believe it, had nylander finished the season with 115, we should've offered 10-10.5 and that should've been that, take it or leave it. He's currently in pastrnak and panarin money territory and both are far superior players.

doing this for marner, if we were to pay him 12.5 * 8 = 100/7 = ~$14M
why would anyone pay him that, and how would they ice a proper roster. Not to mention the playoff no shows. The limit for marner should've been 11.5 and nylander shoudl've been 9.5.

none of this matters now though, MM AM and WN all care about one-upping each other in money, WN made that clear with his discontent of his last contract. There is no giving a bit back to build a better roster, there is no actual "team" here, there is the core 4 + rielly and then everyone else.

 

[Confucius]

I don't want to derail this from marner but nylander's contract made 0 sense even if he finished with 115 points

11.5*8 = 92 million. 92/7 = $13M/yr
so someone would have to pay nylander 13 a year to what we ended up giving him, considering what guentzel got on the "open" market, I highly highly doubt anyone would've paid this. Moreover, this doesn't take into consideration SB filled Front-loaded contract, and advertisement opportunities. I said it at the time and still believe it, had nylander finished the season with 115, we should've offered 10-10.5 and that should've been that, take it or leave it. He's currently in pastrnak and panarin money territory and both are far superior players.

doing this for marner, if we were to pay him 12.5 * 8 = 100/7 = ~$14M
why would anyone pay him that, and how would they ice a proper roster. Not to mention the playoff no shows. The limit for marner should've been 11.5 and nylander shoudl've been 9.5.

none of this matters now though, MM AM and WN all care about one-upping each other in money, WN made that clear with his discontent of his last contract. There is no giving a bit back to build a better roster, there is no actual "team" here, there is the core 4 + rielly and then everyone else.

Marner would extend for 11 times 8,

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Marner would extend for 11 times 8,

I don't see that happening. That has him under WN and he thinks he is a superior player which he is

marner's next deal is going to be in the 12.5-14 range, and I think our management is stupid enough to give it to him

 

[Confucius]

I don't see that happening. That has him under WN and he thinks he is a superior player which he is

marner's next deal is going to be in the 12.5-14 range, and I think our management is stupid enough to give it to him

We are his hometown and favourite team, he isn’t uprooting his family for a million bucks a year and nobody is going to offer him north of 13 million times 7 (91 million) when we can extend here for 88 million.

 

[Tak7]

I don't know anyone who feels like that. Everyone I know looks at Vegas as winners and a team the Leafs should emulate.

I should clarify - Friedman mentioned on his podcast at some point last year that some Vegas players, agents, and families were unhappy about the way the team had handled some higher profile incidents; Fleury, Dadonov, the Nate Schmidt trade, and the Max Pacioretty trade.

I recall someone on the Vegas beat also reporting that they heard that some senior members were attempting to have conversations with players and agents trying to calm the waters after the Schmidt trade.

 

[Gary Nylund]

By make it a priority I mean stop losing to teams below 500, we didn’t beat Ottawa all of last year, we lost to the coyotes and other garbage teams. We beat those teams like I know we can and we have a shot at winning the division.

Easier said than done. There's parity in the league, no such thing as an easy win. It's not like they can just decide to beat all these teams and that's that.

 

[seanlinden]

We are his hometown and favourite team, he isn’t uprooting his family for a million bucks a year and nobody is going to offer him north of 13 million times 7 (91 million) when we can extend here for 88 million.

Marner, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have kids.

That being said, you look at the approach taken by these 3 in all of their contracts, and the theme of "setting a new high bar" has always been prevalent.

Giving Nylander the 2nd contract richer than Pastrnak's was highly unjustifyable at the time. The fact that they let him skip the first half of the year, and monkeyed with the money so he still got paid in full, even more ubsurd.

Then comes Matthews, who could justify that he's worth more than Eichel and less than McDavid, but conveniently left off 2 of the most valuable years of those deals. For this season & next, he'll be paid more than McDavid, and had COVID not happened with the cap being flat for 5 years, he'd have probably been looking at $14m+ to McDavid's $12.5m.

Then comes Marner, who as a winger pushes the Leafs for $10.893 (that then gets boosted because they didn't consider league min salary going up) on just 6 years... meanwhile Rantanen doing the same things he is, signs for $9.25m.

The Leafs had an opportunity to try and "correct course" with this last round of negotiations. It should have started with giving Nylander an ultimatium of $9m or trade... yet they refuse to do so, and again, inexplicably, paid him more than his buddy David Pastrnak, who literally carries Boston offensively.

I don't think there's any way you're going to convince Marner to take $9-10m when he just watched his 2 buddies cash in on ridiculous deals... especially given all the history of wanting to set a new benchmark.

He'd have to have a real "change of stripes" in terms of prioritizing being a Leaf and having a chance to win, putting his ego aside.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner would extend for 11 times 8,

No, he wouldn't.

 

[Confucius]

No, he wouldn't.

I see

Marner, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have kids.

That being said, you look at the approach taken by these 3 in all of their contracts, and the theme of "setting a new high bar" has always been prevalent.

Giving Nylander the 2nd contract richer than Pastrnak's was highly unjustifyable at the time. The fact that they let him skip the first half of the year, and monkeyed with the money so he still got paid in full, even more ubsurd.

Then comes Matthews, who could justify that he's worth more than Eichel and less than McDavid, but conveniently left off 2 of the most valuable years of those deals. For this season & next, he'll be paid more than McDavid, and had COVID not happened with the cap being flat for 5 years, he'd have probably been looking at $14m+ to McDavid's $12.5m.

Then comes Marner, who as a winger pushes the Leafs for $10.893 (that then gets boosted because they didn't consider league min salary going up) on just 6 years... meanwhile Rantanen doing the same things he is, signs for $9.25m.

The Leafs had an opportunity to try and "correct course" with this last round of negotiations. It should have started with giving Nylander an ultimatium of $9m or trade... yet they refuse to do so, and again, inexplicably, paid him more than his buddy David Pastrnak, who literally carries Boston offensively.

I don't think there's any way you're going to convince Marner to take $9-10m when he just watched his 2 buddies cash in on ridiculous deals... especially given all the history of wanting to set a new benchmark.

He'd have to have a real "change of stripes" in terms of prioritizing being a Leaf and having a chance to win, putting his ego aside.

Ofcourse he wouldn’t take 9-10 but I’d bet he’d take 8 times 11. I wouldn’t move to a different city for less than a 10% raise, neither would he.

 

[Evilhomer]

No, he wouldn't.

Yeah, I don't see it. Very hard to imagine that he would take less than $11.5, and odds are that it will be more than that.

 

[seanlinden]

I see


Ofcourse he wouldn’t take 9-10 but I’d bet he’d take 8 times 11. I wouldn’t move to a different city for less than a 10% raise, neither would he.

Mitch Marner is coming off a $65 million dollar contract. It is not, and has not, ever been about the money for these 3 amigos.

It's about what the money says. Giving Marner LESS than Nylander (despite being a year later from a cap hit %) is an admission by Marner that Nylander is better.

The whole "thing" with Marner last time they negotiated is that he looked at Matthews deal, and said to himself "I'm the guy that had 94 points, I'm the guy who kills penalties, I'm the guy who was a +22" -- I want the same.

Unless he changes his stripes, I fear that he's going to ask for more from Toronto than anyone else, where doesn't have to have that comparable. Players like that, and attitudes like that, are cancerous to winning.

Heck, look at the UFA class this year, had Nylander hit the market, he'd have probably been offered $11.5m x 7 from some crappy teams, and $10m x 7 from some good teams.

The Leafs should have traded Nylander the moment it became clear that he wasn't going to put some of his money towards winning. Had they done so with Nylander, maybe the Matthews negotiation goes differently.

 

[Confucius]

Mitch Marner is coming off a $65 million dollar contract. It is not, and has not, ever been about the money for these 3 amigos.

It's about what the money says. Giving Marner LESS than Nylander (despite being a year later from a cap hit %) is an admission by Marner that Nylander is better.

The whole "thing" with Marner last time they negotiated is that he looked at Matthews deal, and said to himself "I'm the guy that had 94 points, I'm the guy who kills penalties, I'm the guy who was a +22" -- I want the same.

Unless he changes his stripes, I fear that he's going to ask for more from Toronto than anyone else, where doesn't have to have that comparable. Players like that, and attitudes like that, are cancerous to winning.

Heck, look at the UFA class this year, had Nylander hit the market, he'd have probably been offered $11.5m x 7 from some crappy teams, and $10m x 7 from some good teams.

The Leafs should have traded Nylander the moment it became clear that he wasn't going to put some of his money towards winning. Had they done so with Nylander, maybe the Matthews negotiation goes differently.

It makes no sense that he would play for less for another team. Another team would have to offer him 13 million and he would end up with a 91 million dollar deal. He’d take 88 million from us for sure. Nobody anywhere is offering him 13or more x 7

 

[seanlinden]

It makes no sense that he would play for less for another team. Another team would have to offer him 13 million and he would end up with a 91 million dollar deal. He’d take 88 million from us for sure. Nobody anywhere is offering him 13or more x 7

Mitch is only 27 years old. That 8th year could have plenty of future value. It also might make sense to him to get a contract that takes him to 34, so if the current rules remain, he can sign another long term deal.

As for making sense, it's all in the timing. Unless the Leafs are grossly incompetent (which to be fair, they might be considering how poorly they handled Nylander's negotiation), the Leafs should close the door to a Marner signing, whether that's by trade, and/or acquiring other players that are going to use his cap space before he hits UFA.

At that point, he may find that his choices are $10m to go to a good team or $12m to go to a bad team.

 

[Confucius]

Mitch is only 27 years old. That 8th year could have plenty of future value. It also might make sense to him to get a contract that takes him to 34, so if the current rules remain, he can sign another long term deal.

As for making sense, it's all in the timing. Unless the Leafs are grossly incompetent (which to be fair, they might be considering how poorly they handled Nylander's negotiation), the Leafs should close the door to a Marner signing, whether that's by trade, and/or acquiring other players that are going to use his cap space before he hits UFA.

At that point, he may find that his choices are $10m to go to a good team or $12m to go to a bad team.

Mgmt will give him 11 before they let him walk for nothing, he wouldn’t move to a bad team for less than a 10% raise.

 

[seanlinden]

Mgmt will give him 11 before they let him walk for nothing, he wouldn’t move to a bad team for less than a 10% raise.

Again, I don't think he'll take it, and to be honest, I don't think the Leafs should even offer it. It's not a slight on Marner -- you cannot win with 3 forwards making $35m.

There needs to be a reset here. For Marner to stay, the number needs to be in line with most of the guys in the league who put up 90+ points. I don't give him "Credit" for basically being at 100, because of the low percentage of goals he scores.

Forsberg makes $8.5m.
Reinhart just signed for $8.625m and scored 50+ goals.
Brayden Point makes $9.5m and scored 50+ last year, with 40+ this year.
Kaprisov makes $9m.
JT Miller makes $8m.
Mikko Rantanten makes $9.5m
Sebastien Aho makes $9.75m.

You want to argue that a few of those contracts have aged a bit... sure.. push push push push you can pay him $10m... but beyond that, the comparables need to stop being the guys on his team, and need to start being somewhere between the guys who put up 100 points, and the guys who score the guys who put up 100 points, mixed with teh guys who score ~30ish goals.

And if he doesn't take it, then management has a duty to do everything in their power to get him onto his destination sometime in the next few weeks.

 

[Arzak]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808559507053682808

It'a sad knowing this guy was our GM once. Explains why you keep getting let go from jobs. Still think Auston leaves for Arizona?

Kadri, Hyman, AJ..

Nothing else to get rid of to keep useless Mitch? Oh I know, I bet we could keep the weakling if we trade Styles !!

ROFL

Get rid of this bum or let him sit, he shouldn't play another game in a Leafs jersey

 

[al secord]

Zzzzzzz.....

Are you OK? Your anger and hate seem to be leaving you unhinged.

 

[francis246]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808559507053682808

It'a sad knowing this guy was our GM once. Explains why you keep getting let go from jobs. Still think Auston leaves for Arizona?

Burke hasn’t been let go anymore than any other executive in hockey. He actually resigned from Vancouver, Anaheim and Calgary to take other jobs or take a break from hockey all together. He’s only been fired twice.

I don’t see anything wrong with his comments. You guys are weird. Start attacking people who disagree with you. Not everyone in hockey has to dislike Marner because you do.

 

[francis246]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808559507053682808

It'a sad knowing this guy was our GM once. Explains why you keep getting let go from jobs. Still think Auston leaves for Arizona?

Burke hasn’t been let go anymore than any other executive in hockey. He actually resigned from Vancouver,

I can't say I blame them. Who would want to go to a team where a player is seriously underperforming yet a large portion of the media and fans are still saying he's going to be re-signed for an exorbitant amount?

Clearly there won't be the money available to sign enough good players to have a chance at the Cup. If you're a good player who hopes to be well paid and/or win the Cup, Toronto shouldn't be on your list.

Completely delusional that you think your post represents anything that Elliott said. It’s actually the complete opposite. Players think this fanbase is a little bit unhinged for how we’ve behaved this offseason.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ofcourse he wouldn’t take 9-10 but I’d bet he’d take 8 times 11. I wouldn’t move to a different city for less than a 10% raise, neither would he.

You'd lose.

Yeah, I don't see it. Very hard to imagine that he would take less than $11.5, and odds are that it will be more than that.

Yup.

It makes no sense that he would play for less for another team. Another team would have to offer him 13 million and he would end up with a 91 million dollar deal. He’d take 88 million from us for sure. Nobody anywhere is offering him 13or more x 7

People need to stop comparing 7/8 year deals as if they're the same thing, they're not.

 

[francis246]

You'd lose.

Yup.

People need to stop comparing 7/8 year deals as if they're the same thing, they're not.

Well Gary a 7/8 year deal is the same if the total money matches. I don’t really think players care whether they get 7 or 8 as long as the total money they want matches.