Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[mydnyte]

If the Big 4 functioned like they should, they would have no problem winning games 7-4 in the playoffs and outscore their mediocre back end and goaltending at least when the situation calls for it. They don’t do that. They lose a good percentage of their offensive firepower, crap out on special teams and have zero clutch ability. And they’re not fun to watch. At this point it’s obvious that they’re all duds in their own way relative to who you think they could be based on the regular season.

not a chance with the way Keefe has the players deployed on the ice, and their zone entries.

Rookie Matthews (under Babs) carried the puck into the zone, and took it to the center, then Keefe comes along and makes him a Give and Go forward.
his strength is the puck on his stick, not someone line Bert who cant handle or make a pass.

look at any game this series, all our forwards are in way too tight to the goalie and have no chance to get a shot or raise the puck; a decent coach should see that, and tell them to be in the low slot, not in the crease, then they may actually get a shot off or a rebound chance.

 

[Stephen]

not a chance with the way Keefe has the players deployed on the ice, and their zone entries.

Rookie Matthews (under Babs) carried the puck into the zone, and took it to the center, then Keefe comes along and makes him a Give and Go forward.
his strength is the puck on his stick, not someone line Bert who cant handle or make a pass.

look at any game this series, all our forwards are in way too tight to the goalie and have no chance to get a shot or raise the puck; a decent coach should see that, and tell them to be in the low slot, not in the crease, then they may actually get a shot off or a rebound chance.

Yep yep. Since the Montreal series meltdown I’ve really hated that park the bus vs in zone cycling, progressing to bad body positioning and tight around the net sequence. Seems like their o-zone spacing is completely broken but I don’t have the coaching wherewithal to untangle the mess. They never have guys who are clear and ready for a clean look or a guy who can distribute the puck clean to somewhere else, whether that’s to the opposite point, or a half wall operator who can set up down low or back to the point.

 

[egd27]

for the record, you should compare the teams they are up against and the goalies as well. all things considered, its not too bad.
it's not like the leafs are in a 'weak' division, or play in the west where high scoring playoff games are the norm, and then add the fact that we have had a lousy defense since any of the core-4 were drafted and, how often shifts are lost playing keep away in their own end because of it.

You forgot the refs on your excuse list

 

[Antropovsky]

None of the 'core four' have really lived up to expectations offensively in the playoffs during their Leafs tenures. Seems silly to scapegoat Marner when he's been the most consistently productive of the bunch.

Player	GP	G	A	P	P/GP
Nylander	51	17	23	40	0.78
Matthews	53	23	24	47	0.89
Marner	54	11	38	49	0.91
Tavares	35	12	11	23	0.68

Keep in mind marner has mostly assists and least amount of goals. His lack of a dangerous shot and his perimeter play males it hard for teammates to pick up points. Which isn't the same the other way around. If you watch his highlights his teammates are driving the play and not him. Most of his goals are linemates crowding the crease, or a teammate setting him up for a wide open lane to the net. Marner is never in front of the net and rarely screening the goalie. He went to that area finally last game and acted like he got shot with a light crosscheck, he didn't get a call and instead of getting back up immediately he was complaining to the ref about the non call. It wasn't even close to a penalty by the way.

 

[mydnyte]

Yep yep. Since the Montreal series meltdown I’ve really hated that park the bus vs in zone cycling, progressing to bad body positioning and tight around the net sequence. Seems like their o-zone spacing is completely broken but I don’t have the coaching wherewithal to untangle the mess. They never have guys who are clear and ready for a clean look or a guy who can distribute the puck clean to somewhere else, whether that’s to the opposite point, or a half wall operator who can set up down low or back to the point.

exactly ...everyone is in too tight and its easy to clog the front of the net and almost impossible to get a shot, or even your stick on the puck in those scrambles.
I'd kill to see a slap shot from the point now and then. ...how many got past Vassy that way?

 

[Racer88]

What isn’t clear about what I said how this team could be better without Marner?

Done properly with the correct use of the opened up cap this team could absolutely be better without Marner. No other team in the league has Mitch Marner and many of them are better than we are. How do they do it without Marner

 

[Gabriel426]

exactly ...everyone is in too tight and its easy to clog the front of the net and almost impossible to get a shot, or even your stick on the puck in those scrambles.
I'd kill to see a slap shot from the point now and then. ...how many got past Vassy that way?

Funny how we still can’t score on tips and deflections bc our guys are usually not clogging in front of the goalie. Another fail from Keefe

 

[Gabriel426]

This couldn’t be further from the truth. I literally listen to just about every maple leafs podcast out there. This season people rightfully so, have had enough of Marner. I don’t necessarily disagree with a lot of what has been said, but to sit here and say he has been a media darling this year is just a straight up lie. The guy has been getting his back kicked in since the contract negotiations (which he brought on himself) and this year he started off really bad and that didn’t help. But this year has been the worst of it.

At the end of the day, I’m in the camp of it’s time to move on from him. I don’t think he’s good for the Leafs and the Leafs aren’t good for him. A move will be good for both parties.

He was more bad than good this year, what do you expect medias to say?
AM wasn’t good for a lot of games early in the year but when he scored, he got hattricks.
Willie was playing out of this World this season.

If Willie had the season like MM did earlier, there would had been a lot worse.

Anyhow, MM is not the scapegoat, he just wasn’t good. Now do MGT still give him time to prove himself? That’s the question.
Personally, I am open to even trading AM bc he has been outplayed pretty much every playoffs series. You can’t have your 1C being outplayed by Coyle.

 

[francis246]

If Mitch's agent and his father had just accepted say $7.5M for 8 years, about what he has proven to be worth taking both regular season (genius) and playoffs (worse than invisible) into account, Mitch wouldn't be under this scrutiny and criticism and this thread wouldn't exist. There ya go. Hope those two sleep well after f***ing up this young man with shockingly bad advice.

Or if Dubas just f*** you to Matthews and Marner like he did Nylander we wouldn’t be in this predicament. It stems back to Dubas and Shanahan giving into these kids demands.

If he wants to sign an offer sheet you let him, isn’t that what Carolina did with Aho? Or you bridge him like MTL did to PK Subban And TB did to Point. Go out and prove you’re worth that money

 

[67leafs]

Marner and Reilly on the PP is a disaster……2 guys who can’t shoot.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner and Reilly on the PP is a disaster……2 guys who can’t shoot.

Yep... like having a basketball team with players who can't shoot 3s.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

None of the 'core four' have really lived up to expectations offensively in the playoffs during their Leafs tenures. Seems silly to scapegoat Marner when he's been the most consistently productive of the bunch.

Player	GP	G	A	P	P/GP
Nylander	51	17	23	40	0.78
Matthews	53	23	24	47	0.89
Marner	54	11	38	49	0.91
Tavares	35	12	11	23	0.68

Assists just blind people from the truth. It’s about goals.

Marner has assists that are essentially goals because his pass is so good.

We need a stat called offence. You get them from goals and incredible assists. No secondary assist is ever likely to make the grade.

Same with D. Maybe even more so. Edmundson stopped a shot when Samsonov wasn’t looking. There is a D tally for him.

11 goals plus + Marner’s D and O tallies still is underperforming his AAV.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner and Reilly on the PP is a disaster……2 guys who can’t shoot.

A big slapper from the point can help.

It creates mad scrambles that help the offence.

We certainly lack that.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner and Reilly on the PP is a disaster……2 guys who can’t shoot.

Tre realized it and brought in Klingberg. Right idea, wrong execution.

To go back to Rielly after Klingberg was put on LTIR, is another fail for Tre. Everybody was wanting a top 2 dman with a shot He brought in Boosh and Ed instead.

 

[stickty111]

None of the 'core four' have really lived up to expectations offensively in the playoffs during their Leafs tenures. Seems silly to scapegoat Marner when he's been the most consistently productive of the bunch.

Player	GP	G	A	P	P/GP
Nylander	51	17	23	40	0.78
Matthews	53	23	24	47	0.89
Marner	54	11	38	49	0.91
Tavares	35	12	11	23	0.68

Marner's production falls off the most in games 5-7 compared to the others.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

When will other fanbases come to terms with raw production not being the entire story?

All 4 of those players have nice stats on paper. Those players play 25 minutes a night and get the entire powerplay and every faceoff in the O zone in the 3rd period. They are given the entirety of offensive chances for 8 years, they better have okay looking stats on paper.

I'd encourage the poster who believes in that stat chart to watch tomorrow's game and report back what they notice.

I get so frustrated where personal stats are prioritized over the team. Matthews had a great game 2. Nobody else deserves any kind of praise. They are being killed out there

 

[Shultzyfeelinirie25]

Go to the Wings Board about trading this years 1st there all about trading for Marner

 

[ToneDog]

Go to the Wings Board about trading this years 1st there all about trading for Marner

Raymond and that big Swedish dman for Marner. Please and thank you.

 

[stickty111]

When will other fanbases come to terms with raw production not being the entire story?

All 4 of those players have nice stats on paper. Those players play 25 minutes a night and get the entire powerplay and every faceoff in the O zone in the 3rd period. They are given the entirety of offensive chances for 8 years, they better have okay looking stats on paper.

I'd encourage the poster who believes in that stat chart to watch tomorrow's game and report back what they notice.

I get so frustrated where personal stats are prioritized over the team. Matthews had a great game 2. Nobody else deserves any kind of praise. They are being killed out there

Also those stats should have a deeper dive. Lets compare again games 1-4 to games 5-7.

Marner
Games 1-4: 41/36= 1.14
Games 5-7: 8/18= 0.44

Nylander
Games 1-4: 26/33= 0.79
Games 5-7: 14/18= 0.78

Matthews
Games 1-4: 35/36= 0.97
Games 5-7: 12/18= 0.67

Tavares:
Games 1-4: 14/24= 0.58
Games 5-7: 9/10= 0.90

Nobody's elses production falls off as much as Marner's does.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Raymond and that big Swedish dman for Marner. Please and thank you.

Edvinsson or whatever his name is. I’d take him alone for Marner. He’s got some real potential

 

[hullsy47]

Edvinsson or whatever his name is. I’d take him alone for Marner. He’s got some real potential

I agree raymond is gonna want 7 million .

 

[notbias]

None of the 'core four' have really lived up to expectations offensively in the playoffs during their Leafs tenures. Seems silly to scapegoat Marner when he's been the most consistently productive of the bunch.

Player	GP	G	A	P	P/GP
Nylander	51	17	23	40	0.78
Matthews	53	23	24	47	0.89
Marner	54	11	38	49	0.91
Tavares	35	12	11	23	0.68

These numbers can not be right... Marner and Matthews are playoff duds and Nylander is a playoff stud, I demand a recount!

Someone will now bring up that Marner once got 3 assists in a game so his numbers are boosted because of that.

 

[Superstar]

Remember Dubas could have signed Alex Pietrangelo instead and let Marner walk? Many folks wanted it done. But here we are...Vegas has won a Cup with Pietro while Leafs are still struggling to make a dent in the playoffs with Marner.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Also those stats should have a deeper dive. Lets compare again games 1-4 to games 5-7.

Marner
Games 1-4: 41/36= 1.14
Games 5-7: 8/18= 0.44

Nylander
Games 1-4: 26/33= 0.79
Games 5-7: 14/18= 0.78

Matthews
Games 1-4: 35/36= 0.97
Games 5-7: 12/18= 0.67

Tavares:
Games 1-4: 14/24= 0.58
Games 5-7: 9/10= 0.90

Nobody's elses production falls off as much as Marner's does.

Exactly. I don't know why anyone cares about point totals. Round 2 game 5 is by far our deepest run in 8 years

 

[Gabriel426]

Raymond and that big Swedish dman for Marner. Please and thank you.

Can we also send JT for Larkin.

Remember Dubas could have signed Alex Pietrangelo instead and let Marner walk? Many folks wanted it done. But here we are...Vegas has won a Cup with Pietro while Leafs are still struggling to make a dent in the playoffs with Marner.

I don't think he was coming. Like all UFAs, they tend to use Leafs as a leverage to get a better deal.