Mitch Marner, Yet Again

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But it's funny the number of time i heard than leafs core doesn't show any emotion but at the same time bashing the only who's actuallu did it because it's not the way you want it...

Marner always taking care of everybody on the team.Last year He ctually tried to protect a teammate from media but it resulting to become the guy with a target on his back ... He accepted everything, came back strong whatever everything said about him, focus on the team succes... Still care about everyone and still the same... See marner jumping to try to get a puck in the air, sliding on the ice to try to clear the puck out of his zone ( even if he failed). Just showing for me how much he care about changing the script for the team.

Personally i prefer someone showing emotion even if it's not always perfect than a guy looking like if nothing really matter
Just because a person shows no outward emotion it doesn’t mean he cares less than a guy who does. As an example, William was correct just focus your energy on the job. After the final whistle breakdown then if you must. If you’re in a fox hole do you want to be with a guy flipping out or a guy that appears that the destruction around him means nothing, he has a job to complete.
 
The issue though Gary is that when your leader plays with ZERO emotion and little to no intensity on a daily basis, it will not translate to wins in the playoffs and I think that’s Giordano’s point.

I look at McDavid after going down 0-3 and the video that game out, the man was screaming and demanding better of his team and his voice was cracking. That’s an emotional leader who get it. You can’t just coast and rely on your skill, you need to play a little pissed off, you need to want to kill the opposition and we don’t see it from our team. The leaders have to set the tone, the nothing phases me attitude will only get you so far because when a good team like Florida is leaning into you and running on emotions and you don’t match that, you’re getting cooked in 4 or 5.
That's a different subject than Marner crying in the penalty box. I'm also not sure if what Giordano said had one specific point and that's what is was, or if Giordano's word (or anyone else's) is necessarily 100% gospel but OK.

I would like to see more emotion at times, but mostly I just want them to win. Sundin was a quiet leader, people got on his case for not being more emotional, not sure that's valid though as he played great and that's the main thing. I sometimes wish Matthews would show more emotion but on the other hand, before getting injured last playoffs he was playing some of the best hockey of his career so if he can stay healthy and dominate, I'll be more than happy to settle for that.

At the end of the day, just win and everyone will be happy.
 
And I would have to strongly disagree with that statement especially with Marner being a Ferris client - This guy will bleed any team dry to get his client the most money possible. He'll use the advantage as much as possible imo.
California's tax situation is almost as brutal as Canada's as well - do California teams have any trouble with agents like Ferris and getting star player re-signed at decent rates?
 
There's tons of these articles btw:

I don’t hear about it in other sports, sure if we google it we can find an article on it here and there, however not near the concern that is found here.
 
The issue though Gary is that when your leader plays with ZERO emotion and little to no intensity on a daily basis, it will not translate to wins in the playoffs and I think that’s Giordano’s point.

I look at McDavid after going down 0-3 and the video that game out, the man was screaming and demanding better of his team and his voice was cracking. That’s an emotional leader who get it. You can’t just coast and rely on your skill, you need to play a little pissed off, you need to want to kill the opposition and we don’t see it from our team. The leaders have to set the tone, the nothing phases me attitude will only get you so far because when a good team like Florida is leaning into you and running on emotions and you don’t match that, you’re getting cooked in 4 or 5.
I find the concept of professional athletes following a leader a little overrated. It’s either you care or you don’t, and if mumbles Tavares is your captain, it shouldn’t really matter.
 
That's a different subject than Marner crying in the penalty box. I'm also not sure if what Giordano said had one specific point and that's what is was, or if Giordano's word (or anyone else's) is necessarily 100% gospel but OK.

I would like to see more emotion at times, but mostly I just want them to win. Sundin was a quiet leader, people got on his case for not being more emotional, not sure that's valid though as he played great and that's the main thing. I sometimes wish Matthews would show more emotion but on the other hand, before getting injured last playoffs he was playing some of the best hockey of his career so if he can stay healthy and dominate, I'll be more than happy to settle for that.

At the end of the day, just win and everyone will be happy.

So we should listen to Kelly Hurdy and Biznasty when they have something to say (I’m not saying you lead the charge on this) but disregard Giordano an NHL vet who was in the room with these guys?

Also playing with emotion doesn’t mean that you need to be extra physical. I’m not sure why that’s hard for people to understand. Playing with emotion can simply be, just being first on pucks constantly and putting forth a strong effort, not cheating offense and just playing hard. Playing with emotion should not lead to anyone, let alone Matthews getting hurt.
 
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I find the concept of professional athletes following a leader a little overrated. It’s either you care or you don’t, and if mumbles Tavares is your captain, it shouldn’t really matter.

I’ve played pro in a diff sport, it’s not overrated. Quite essential actually. You don’t need them to be raw raw, but when your best player raises their intensity levels naturally everyone else starts doing it too.
 
California's tax situation is almost as brutal as Canada's as well - do California teams have any trouble with agents like Ferris and getting star player re-signed at decent rates?
Hard to say, they don't have much of the star power atm. Doughty was the last big one and it made him the highest paid defensemen in the league until Karlsson overtook him. Kopitar re-signed for the same money we're rumoured to be giving JT ($7M). SJS and ANA really haven't had anyone to re-sign lately that I can think of.

12 of the 15 highest paid players were signed by high bracket tax teams.
 
What's so strange about it is of the Four he's the only one that I've seen make visible adjustments to his game over the years and yet he still can't push through.

One thing that might help is if he's far more aggressive breaking into the offensive zone. As it is, I swear, over 95% (quite literally 95%) of his zone entries he backhands to the player on the near wall then heads, usually at mid-speed, toward the net.

Just once in awhile even just to keep the defenders honest, fake the hand off and HIT THE LINE LIKE A RAGING BULL AND DRIVEE THE PUCK TO THE ***** NET! I get that he's no MacKinnon (there's only one) but he's capable of that kind of rush.

As it is his line is way too predictable and easy to contain in big part because they seem content hanging around the perimeter and not forcing/fighting their way to the front. Knies will help in that department, but Mitch and Auston simply have to do it as well.

Matthews would be hard to stop if he burned with a Mackinnon-type fire. But he doesn’t attack the game with the same passion and that’s what holds him back. Even at 4 Nations, who brought more fire on the same line, Brady Tkachuk or Auston?
 
I don’t hear about it in other sports, sure if we google it we can find an article on it here and there, however not near the concern that is found here.
Because only the NHL has a hard cap.

If the New York teams in baseball, football, or basketball need to pay more, they can because they're also the richest teams.
 
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I’ve played pro in a diff sport, it’s not overrated. Quite essential actually. You don’t need them to be raw raw, but when your best player raises their intensity levels naturally everyone else starts doing it too.

Also, a leader that leads with emotion empowers everyone else to raise their emotional energy and bring a little bit more. There are hierarchies at play. Think of any professional environment. Your lowly intern isn’t going to step up and take on a big scene stealing leadership role if the boss and manager are quiet in their tasks, low key culture. Etc.
 
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I’ve played pro in a diff sport, it’s not overrated. Quite essential actually. You don’t need them to be raw raw, but when your best player raises their intensity levels naturally everyone else starts doing it too.
I have had as well, and I never needed that to motivate myself. I mean it doesn’t hurt, but in the end it shouldn’t be the deciding factor
 
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I have had as well, and I never needed that to motivate myself. I mean it doesn’t hurt, but in the end it shouldn’t be the deciding factor

Everyone’s different which you are right.

I think in the leafs case our best players do not play with it consistently. So I do think in the leafs case, it probably is the deciding factor, especially considering all the game 7’s they’ve lost. They are missing something, the skill is there, but the lack that extra gear needed to will themselves to a win and I think that nothing bothers us attitude unfortunately is a catalyst in why they lose so many game 7’s. They don’t seem to play desperate.
 
Matthews is a 3x Rocket winning L1 C.

There is no comparison to be made with him. Internal or otherwise. Marner needs to look elsewhere and AM having an injury and down year does not move the needle either.

The debate on Marner needs to end at this point. It's a stalemate. Marner is a 100pt playmaking winger who is perceived by many to not be an effective playoff performer. He has successfully put up another 100pt or so season and has the opportunity to have a big playoffs.

If he does not. The Leafs and him need to decide to continue working together.
Well according to you the only thing that matters is the playoffs. You would think a 69 goal scorer winner of numerous regular season trophies would be just as unstoppable in the playoffs.
But you change the goal posts. Only mariners regular season means nothing and it’s only just the playoffs.
You my friend have a real problem putting things on a level playing field when it comes to marner.
Did he give you a wedgie and take your lunch money in kindergarten.
Every post in every forum you have to bring marner into it.
 
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Also, a leader that leads with emotion empowers everyone else to raise their emotional energy and bring a little bit more. There are hierarchies at play. Think of any professional environment. Your lowly intern isn’t going to step up and take on a big scene stealing leadership role if the boss and manager are quiet in their tasks, low key culture. Etc.

Exactly and good leaders know when they need to turn that gage up and bring it down. It’s not something that needs to be there 24/7, but when the moment calls for it, we need a leader to invoke it so that we get that extra 5% from the rest of the group
 
Personally i prefer someone showing emotion even if it's not always perfect than a guy looking like if nothing really matter
I agree with a lot of what you said, this in particular though I am indifferent on. People are different and that is going to extend into professional athletes, too. They are going to react differently on the ice, answer media questions differently, learn differently from the coaching staff, and certainly have different levels of shown emotions. I don't care too much if my guy is the fiery, vocal leader that you can see in game type or the quiet, lead by example, even keel type, as long as we've got a good mix.

Marner takes way too much heat for pretty much everything, but that is Leafs Nation. It was Willy for a while, Matthews has gotten it, Mo... if we're making a list we can go back my entire life and see just how many people take it needlessly here. It's too bad, I actually think the guy is likely far more mentally healthy than a lot of NHLers. He actually seems like he gets life and how hard it is to do great things in sport, but that doesn't play well with fans for a few reasons. Notably, anyone under 57 hasn't seen us win anything at all and people feel they need to take that out on a current guy. Secondly, they see a kid who they don't think gets it because it's not what they think it means to be a hockey player even though he's the one who actually does, in fact, get it.
 
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Just because a person shows no outward emotion it doesn’t mean he cares less than a guy who does. As an example, William was correct just focus your energy on the job. After the final whistle breakdown then if you must. If you’re in a fox hole do you want to be with a guy flipping out or a guy that appears that the destruction around him means nothing, he has a job to complete.

Outside of Lidstrom and Kopitar, name me an emotionless leader that helped his team to the Stanley cup in the cap era. You’re gonna be hard pressed to find one.
 
I agree with a lot of what you said, this in particular though I am indifferent on. People are different and that is going to extend into professional athletes, too. They are going to react differently on the ice, answer media questions differently, learn differently from the coaching staff, and certainly have different levels of shown emotions. I don't care too much if my guy is the fiery, vocal leader that you can see in game type or the quiet, lead by example, even keel type, as long as we've got a good mix.

Marner takes way too much heat for pretty much everything, but that is Leafs Nation. It was Willy for a while, Matthews has gotten it, Mo... if we're making a list we can go back my entire life and see just how many people take it needlessly here. It's too bad, I actually think the guy is likely far more mentally healthy than a lot of NHLers. He actually seems like he gets life and how hard it is to do great things in sport, but that doesn't play well with fans for a few reasons. Notably, anyone under 57 hasn't seen us win anything at all and people feel they need to take that out on a current guy. Secondly, they see a kid who they don't think gets it because it's not what they think it means to be a hockey player even though he's the one who actually does, in fact, get it.

Agreed, having a personality and not being stoic is basically a death sentence in hockey. I didn’t grow up playing hockey, only watched it! so I’ve never understood why players with big personalities are so disliked.
 
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Outside of Lidstrom and Kopitar, name me an emotionless leader that helped his team to the Stanley cup in the cap era. You’re gonna be hard pressed to find one.
I don’t follow players on other teams nearly closely enough to know which players keep their emotions in check, but I do see the results after a cup win. Many players displaying emotions of joy and emotions of sorrow after the final game. Seems to me almost 100% kept their emotions in check until the final outcome was known.
 
They always 2 way to see thr same situation and it's rarely black or white...

1st way
You can see the way Nylander is more mature to think that's why he had been able to producing at higher rate...

or the second way
Nylander just doesn't care as much about winning or losing so He just still playing the same way with no pressure... At the end, if they lost its just an other day vs Marner who just want it too much so try to do too much on the ice under preasure...

Maybe the truth is somewhere between both, who's really know?
That’s fair. We really don’t know what goes on inside their heads and all we can do is judge what we see.

However I wish all three of the amigos channeled their emotion differently. I wish Matthews and Nylander had a little more fire and played more physical when things get though. Don’t back down from guys. And I wish Marner didn’t complain as much and think the world is out to get him. I think the pressure of playing in Toronto and being looked at as a leader of the team gets to him.
 
Delusional. Letting Marner walk to use his money elsewhere is a ridiculous thought, he’s one of the best Leafs of all time. He’s signed to a large contract because he’s worth the large contract. Letting him walk would make our team worse no matter how you spend the money.

Likely going to post a career high. Are we going to boo him because he can’t beat his career high next year?
Letting him walk would mean the team doesn’t think he is worth what he wants, it doesn’t mean they think he is a bad player. Would you pay him league max, I mean come on otherwise he wakes for free.
 
Everyone’s different which you are right.

I think in the leafs case our best players do not play with it consistently. So I do think in the leafs case, it probably is the deciding factor, especially considering all the game 7’s they’ve lost. They are missing something, the skill is there, but the lack that extra gear needed to will themselves to a win and I think that nothing bothers us attitude unfortunately is a catalyst in why they lose so many game 7’s. They don’t seem to play desperate.
The skill is there for sure. Matthews I see trying to fight through it in the playoffs. Nylander is a strong dude and is more engaged in the playoffs. He looks nonchalant but the willingness is there.

The one thing about Mitch is that he isn’t a fast skater, isn’t really strong on his skates and seems to shy away from digging in. I don’t expect him to throw huge hits, but get in the corners and fight for the puck. I don’t see him doing that. Maybe he will change his mind this postseason.

Knies really is the key though.
 
Forgot him as well, but Id guess people would argue Tkachuk is really the leader there.

Tkachuk doesn't lead anything... dude was a dud in the playoffs until he became the 5th most important player on his team.

I do think the team in general leads as a team, but most good teams do...
 
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