Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[slozo]

Slozo.... what's your thoughts on all these playoff Marner videos from the past few years?:

I'll let you answer my question first, or at least reply to my previous statement - instead of commenting on videos that have nothing to do with what I commented on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You refuse to look at the whole picture. Totals matter. Goals matter more than assists.

I always look at the full picture. You're the one attempting to arbitrarily overvalue certain point types over ones that are equally impactful and valuable, and arbitrarily exclude everything other than the least accurate representations of production level.

Rantanen in his contract scored more points and more goals and got way less. That is the whole picture.

Actually, despite a big opportunity advantage, Rantanen had less points, less primary points, a lower P/GP, a lower primary P/GP, and a lower rate of production and primary production in every individual game state (including even being a worse goal scorer at 5v5), while also not PKing, and being bad defensively, and he got slightly less. That's much closer to the full picture, and Marner has continued his superior play through their second contracts.

Marner is better if you ignore the parts of the game rantanen is better at.

Rantanen isn't really better at any part of the game. He's worse offensively and defensively in every game state. The only things he's better at are producing against an empty net and getting drafted to the team that gets the most PP opportunities in the league.

There is nothing to suggest that PP goals are worth less in contracts.

Nobody said PP goals are worth less. You just want to pretend they're worth more, and ignore the context behind that production.

 

[ashs]

Vladdy signed, now please Mitchy next (and give us term)

 

[arso40]

I always look at the full picture. You're the one attempting to arbitrarily overvalue certain point types over ones that are equally impactful and valuable, and arbitrarily exclude everything other than the least accurate representations of production level.

Actually, despite a big opportunity advantage, Rantanen had less points, less primary points, a lower P/GP, a lower primary P/GP, and a lower rate of production and primary production in every individual game state (including even being a worse goal scorer at 5v5), while also not PKing, and being bad defensively, and he got slightly less. That's much closer to the full picture, and Marner has continued his superior play through their second contracts.

Rantanen isn't really better at any part of the game. He's worse offensively and defensively in every game state. The only things he's better at are producing against an empty net and getting drafted to the team that gets the most PP opportunities in the league.

Nobody said PP goals are worth less. You just want to pretend they're worth more, and ignore the context behind that production.

Opportunity advantage? lol you being serious ? Rantanen in all honesty is at worst given the same opportunity as marner but realistically he doesn’t have the same center options marner has doesn’t have the pp ran through him either you articulate yourself very well but I think your out to lunch even trying to justify marner being better than Rantanen hes not it doesn’t mean he isn’t very good in his own right

 

[ToneDog]

The only people who think Marner is worth more than Rantanen are Marner and his golfing buddies.

He's not worth more than Rantanen. It's evident to everyone who the better more successful player is. I suspect even the Marnerites know this but don't want to admit it.

To deny the obvious is playing make belief.

I didn't watch enough Polka Dot Door as a kid I guess. Because I'm clearly lacking the imagination necessary to put Marner ahead of Rantanen. There's truths in this world that are self- evident despite all the tin foil hat conspiracies.

No matter how hard I try to see a flat earth it still appears round.

Marner made bucket loads of claims about how he wanted to remain a Leafs player for life. It was supposedly reported he didn't want to be the highest paid player on the team. Some of the more gullible on here lapped it up like fresh milk.

Now we get to see if his actions can cash the cheques his mouth was writing.

This team with Pastrnak or Rantanen in place of Marner would have a much better chance to make a deep run IMO. Pasta is now ahead of Marner in points after a slow start and he is playing with Geekie who he has turned into a 20+ goal scorer. 3 points away from his 3rd consecutive 100 point season and 12 goals away from 400. Wake me up when Mitch gets close to 400 goals.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

This team with Pastrnak or Rantanen in place of Marner would have a much better chance to make a deep run IMO. Pasta is now ahead of Marner in points after a slow start and he is playing with Geekie who he has turned into a 20+ goal scorer.

I think everyone who isn't licking his feet can agree that Marner isn't the best winger in the league.

He only wants to be paid like it is all.

 

[ToneDog]

I think everyone who isn't licking his feet can agree that Marner isn't the best winger in the league.

He only wants to be paid like it is all.

It is why some fans do not lose sleep over him walking for nothing. This team has enough me first players.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It is why some fans do not lose sleep over him walking for nothing. This team has enough me first players.

I honestly can't remember the last time I dis-liked a Leafs player so much.

I can't wait til he's gone.

 

[ToneDog]

Vladdy signed, now please Mitchy next (and give us term)

Patience, everybody is waiting to see how he performs in the playoffs. All this talk that the Panthers are tanking to meet the Leafs must have him wondering what his next destination will be.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Opportunity advantage? lol you being serious?

I'm not sure how anybody could even pretend that Rantanen didn't have an opportunity advantage through their respective ELCs.

he doesn’t have the same center options marner has

He's been attached to Mackinnon for pretty much his entire career, since back when Marner was still playing with Bozak.

doesn’t have the pp ran through him either

Rantanen is picking up a point on an almost identical percentage of the PP goals their units score.

 

[IPS]

The only people who think Marner is worth more than Rantanen are Marner and his golfing buddies.

He's not worth more than Rantanen. It's evident to everyone who the better more successful player is. I suspect even the Marnerites know this but don't want to admit it.

To deny the obvious is playing make belief.

I didn't watch enough Polka Dot Door as a kid I guess. Because I'm clearly lacking the imagination necessary to put Marner ahead of Rantanen. There's truths in this world that are self- evident despite all the tin foil hat conspiracies.

No matter how hard I try to see a flat earth it still appears round.

Marner made bucket loads of claims about how he wanted to remain a Leafs player for life. It was supposedly reported he didn't want to be the highest paid player on the team. Some of the more gullible on here lapped it up like fresh milk.

Now we get to see if his actions can cash the cheques his mouth was writing.

Posts like these are the only thing making this thread worth reading

 

[IPS]

This team with Pastrnak or Rantanen in place of Marner would have a much better chance to make a deep run IMO. Pasta is now ahead of Marner in points after a slow start and he is playing with Geekie who he has turned into a 20+ goal scorer. 3 points away from his 3rd consecutive 100 point season and 12 goals away from 400. Wake me up when Mitch gets close to 400 goals.

With all the craze about AI and how fascinated people are about using it for hockey analysis I prompted chatGPT as accurately as I could to get objective comparisons on Pastrnak, Rantanen, and Marner.

I won't copy and paste the whole conversation because it's a very long and extensive one ( the deep research function adds a whole lot of depth too) But essentially what it said - when you have the foundational pieces in place (goalie, strong centers, defensemen, all defensively responsible) the most efficient thing you can add to your lineup is an elite goal-scoring winger. With the Pastrnak vs Marner comparison, it seems ChatGPT favoured adding Pastrnak to a complete team far more than Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

Safe to say this has been his best, most complete season to date.
The only question left is whether he hits 100 or not.
Provided he plays them all, he needs 6 points in 6 games.

 

[mclaren55]

Safe to say this has been his best, most complete season to date.
The only question left is whether he hits 100 or not.
Provided he plays them all, he needs 6 points in 6 games.

Hope he hits it, always nice to have another Leaf in the 100 point club!

 

[Fogelhund]

I honestly can't remember the last time I dis-liked a Leafs player so much.

I can't wait til he's gone.

Personally, I hope for the Leafs to have success, not cheer for failure, but you do you.

I hope Marner gets the Hart, on the way to winning the Stanley Cup, and then he gets paid.

But if you would prefer the Leafs fail, so we can get rid of Marner.. so be it.

 

[Madap]

Safe to say this has been his best, most complete season to date.
The only question left is whether he hits 100 or not.
Provided he plays them all, he needs 6 points in 6 games.

I would think the only question left is if he can continue it into the playoffs. I’d also be curious if this is a “contract year” thing or not.

 

[Madap]

Vladdy signed, now please Mitchy next (and give us term)

Damn, Marner is going to be asking for 500M now, isn’t he.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Personally, I hope for the Leafs to have success, not cheer for failure, but you do you.

I hope Marner gets the Hart, on the way to winning the Stanley Cup, and then he gets paid.

But if you would prefer the Leafs fail, so we can get rid of Marner.. so be it.

I want him off the team regardless if they succeed or fail.

Where did I cheer for them to fail? That's putting words into my mouth. I never once said anything about wanting the Leafs to fail or Marner to do poorly.

I said I can't stand him and want him gone.

 

[Confucius]

It is why some fans do not lose sleep over him walking for nothing. This team has enough me first players.

It’s a completely different dynamic with a Cap. If there was no cap it would be a huge loss.

 

[Legion34]

I always look at the full picture. You're the one attempting to arbitrarily overvalue certain point types over ones that are equally impactful and valuable, and arbitrarily exclude everything other than the least accurate representations of production level.

Actually, despite a big opportunity advantage, Rantanen had less points, less primary points, a lower P/GP, a lower primary P/GP, and a lower rate of production and primary production in every individual game state (including even being a worse goal scorer at 5v5), while also not PKing, and being bad defensively, and he got slightly less. That's much closer to the full picture, and Marner has continued his superior play through their second contracts.

Rantanen isn't really better at any part of the game. He's worse offensively and defensively in every game state. The only things he's better at are producing against an empty net and getting drafted to the team that gets the most PP opportunities in the league.

Nobody said PP goals are worth less. You just want to pretend they're worth more, and ignore the context behind that production.

Worse offensively and defensively. Just

I always look at the full picture. You're the one attempting to arbitrarily overvalue certain point types over ones that are equally impactful and valuable, and arbitrarily exclude everything other than the least accurate representations of production level.

Actually, despite a big opportunity advantage, Rantanen had less points, less primary points, a lower P/GP, a lower primary P/GP, and a lower rate of production and primary production in every individual game state (including even being a worse goal scorer at 5v5), while also not PKing, and being bad defensively, and he got slightly less. That's much closer to the full picture, and Marner has continued his superior play through their second contracts.

Rantanen isn't really better at any part of the game. He's worse offensively and defensively in every game state. The only things he's better at are producing against an empty net and getting drafted to the team that gets the most PP opportunities in the league.

Nobody said PP goals are worth less. You just want to pretend they're worth more, and ignore the context behind that production.

No. More goals are worth more goals. Not making excuses about pp or empty net or “opportunity advantage”

80-67 pre contract. Thats the full picture. It’s embarrassing to compare them over the last 6.You are coming up with ways to negate clear production advantages.

I don’t need to arbitrarily talk about game states or pace or empty nets. pp time etc.

 

[ashs]

I want him off the team regardless if they succeed or fail.

Where did I cheer for them to fail? That's putting words into my mouth. I never once said anything about wanting the Leafs to fail or Marner to do poorly.

I said I can't stand him and want him gone.

Many leaf fans enjoy watching him play. U don't speak for all of us.

 

[Smif]

The only people who think Marner is worth more than Rantanen are Marner and his golfing buddies.

He's not worth more than Rantanen. It's evident to everyone who the better more successful player is. I suspect even the Marnerites know this but don't want to admit it.

To deny the obvious is playing make belief.

I didn't watch enough Polka Dot Door as a kid I guess. Because I'm clearly lacking the imagination necessary to put Marner ahead of Rantanen. There's truths in this world that are self- evident despite all the tin foil hat conspiracies.

No matter how hard I try to see a flat earth it still appears round.

Marner made bucket loads of claims about how he wanted to remain a Leafs player for life. It was supposedly reported he didn't want to be the highest paid player on the team. Some of the more gullible on here lapped it up like fresh milk.

Now we get to see if his actions can cash the cheques his mouth was writing.

Rantanen has 6 goals in 28 games since leaving MacKinnon's wing. That translates to less goals than Marner over an 82 game season AND he's not even PPG.

 

[notbias]

Patience, everybody is waiting to see how he performs in the playoffs. All this talk that the Panthers are tanking to meet the Leafs must have him wondering what his next destination will be.

That's not true, Treliving wanted to sign him already, Marner has been waiting.

 

[thewave]

Rantanen has 6 goals in 28 games since leaving MacKinnon's wing. That translates to less goals than Marner over an 82 game season AND he's not even PPG.

What if Marner leaves and has half the assists without Matthews as C. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

 

[Smif]

What if Marner leaves and has half the assists without Matthews as C. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

Marner has 70 assists. Matthews has 71 points.

I think he'll be ok.