Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[ACC1224]

Rantanen 58 goals more, total 15 points more, played 14 games more over the last 2 plus seasons.

Yes, he scored more goals and has a worse ppg.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok, but lest we forget that Marner is a winger. Comparing him to generational centres is a bit disingenuous, no? Centre position typically commands a premium vs. winger, add in the fact they (Drai and Mac) are both significantly better goal scorers, it's easy to see why people don't think Marner deserves that kind of pay.

The other individual is the one who compared them. I'm just pointing out that according to the ridiculous methodology he was using, Marner should make as much as Mackinnon. That's not how contracts work, and Marner likely won't get the cap percentages they got, but comparing top forwards isn't disingenuous. The only thing disingenuous is people pretending that Marner deserves less because he's a playmaker that doesn't take faceoffs.

 

[Confucius]

Mackinnon's best season when he signed was the same 99 points. So using your logic, where pay is exclusively about your best raw point season, Marner should get MacKinnon money.

Fresh off leading the Avs to a cup
If Mitch doesn’t score another point this season but leads us to the Cup with 13 goals and 11 assists this year, I’ll give him mackinnon money

 

[Dekes For Days]

No GM in his right mind is chosing the small, soft, goal challenged Marner over the big, goal scorer Rantanen. Just ask Treliving.

The funniest part is that Treliving already told us all that he preferred Marner over Rantanen, like any sane GM would.

Fresh off leading the Avs to a cup

But you said all we needed to consider was peak raw point season. Now you're selectively applying context for only one side, and trying to boost his pay for team accomplishments.

 

[ToneDog]

Rantanen 58 goals more, total 15 points more, played 14 games more over the last 2 plus seasons.

It will take Mitch 2+ seasons to make up the difference in goals. But he wants to be paid for all those amazing assists and his amazing defensive game. Seriously, can you see this guy shutting down bigger and stronger goal scorers like Rantanan or Draisaitl? We saw first hand how he shut down Pasta, the one Bruins you cannot let beat you, when it counted most a year ago.

 

[Confucius]

The funniest part is that Treliving already told us all that he preferred Marner over Rantanen, like any sane GM would.

But you said all we needed to consider was peak raw point season. Now you're selectively applying context for only one side, and trying to boost his pay for team accomplishments.

whatever man, if you think Mitch is as good as Mac. God bless

Ok forget the Cup, just get the 13 goals and 11 assists this playoffs

Edit to add
It would have been even Funnier if he said he prefered Rantanen, while he still had Mitch.

 

[GoonieFace]

The funniest part is that Treliving already told us all that he preferred Marner over Rantanen, like any sane GM would.

But you said all we needed to consider was peak raw point season. Now you're selectively applying context for only one side, and trying to boost his pay for team accomplishments.

It is pretty funny because he tried to trade Marner for Rantanen. Anything said after the fact is just lip service. I assume you believe every thing a politician says as well.

 

[The Shadow]

Marner hasn’t looked as good as the Colorado game that he got 2 goals. Around the time of the leak of him being asked about Carolina

He was flying after the 4 nations for a little bit

 

[Smif]

It will take Mitch 2+ seasons to make up the difference in goals. But he wants to be paid for all those amazing assists and his amazing defensive game. Seriously, can you see this guy shutting down bigger and stronger goal scorers like Rantanan or Draisaitl? We saw first hand how he shut down Pasta, the one Bruins you cannot let beat you, when it counted most a year ago.

Wingers don't cover other wingers down low...

 

[ToneDog]

Marner hasn’t looked as good as the Colorado game that he got 2 goals. Around the time of the leak of him being asked about Carolina

He was flying after the 4 nations for a little bit

I'm expecting much of the same in the playoffs. This leopard is not changing his spots.

 

[francis246]

It is pretty funny because he tried to trade Marner for Rantanen. Anything said after the fact is just lip service. I assume you believe every thing a politician says as well.

Except that’s not what happened. He tried to trade Cowan, Minten and 2 firsts for Rantanen. Carolina Countered with Knies, the leafs said hell no and then Carolina finally asked if Marner was available, the leafs did their due diligence and asked him.

 

[Confucius]

Except that’s not what happened. He tried to trade Cowan, Minten and 2 firsts for Rantanen. Carolina Countered with Knies, the leafs said hell no and then Carolina finally asked if Marner was available, the leafs did their due diligence and asked him.

I don’t believe it went that way. If Trev wanted to keep Mitch he wouldn’t ask if he would be interested in moving to Carolina. Wouldn’t that be tampering? Teams generally don’t like other teams tampering with their players. dDo you think we would have kept both Mitch and Rantanen, knowing us sure why not 3 right wingers in the 11 plus million range.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner hasn’t looked as good as the Colorado game that he got 2 goals. Around the time of the leak of him being asked about Carolina

He was flying after the 4 nations for a little bit

He was great in California.

 

[GoonieFace]

Except that’s not what happened. He tried to trade Cowan, Minten and 2 firsts for Rantanen. Carolina Countered with Knies, the leafs said hell no and then Carolina finally asked if Marner was available, the leafs did their due diligence and asked him.

Yes, they asked Marner to waive so they could trade him for Rantanen. If they didn’t intend to do it, they wouldn’t have asked him to waive.

 

[ACC1224]

Except that’s not what happened. He tried to trade Cowan, Minten and 2 firsts for Rantanen. Carolina Countered with Knies, the leafs said hell no and then Carolina finally asked if Marner was available, the leafs did their due diligence and asked him.

Everyone knows this, not sure why some struggle to remember it.

 

[Hellcat]

Well that is why Marner thinks he is worth more than players like Nylander who have 50% more goals. Why does he think he is worth more than Pasta, Ranta and Willie if not for goals?

If he thinks that he has an argument, maybe it is because he's a better two way player. He is an elite defensive and offensive forward - those other guys are elite with the puck and just OK without the puck. Combine the goals he supresses with the goals he contributes to, his total contribution might be as much or better than Ranta. How do we know Marner thinks he is worth more than those players?

To be fair, Willie, Pasta signed before we found out that the NHL cap will be well above $100m in a couple of years, this changes the calculus significantly in calculating a players value. 11 mill today is 13 mil tomorrow, but still the same value. When you artificially set a cap , the value of a player moves with that cap. If the cap drops to 50 mil, Marner would be "worth" $4 to $6 mil. Worth is a relative term.

 

[Hellcat]

No GM in his right mind is chosing the small, soft, goal challenged Marner over the big, goal scorer Rantanen. Just ask Treliving. Some have quite the imagination.

Rantanen was not a guarantee elite player in Toronto, his stint in Carolina was very underwhelming.

 

[Antropovsky]

This is what @Antropovsky does. He goes to that site and sorts the columns until he finds a column that Marner isn't near the top. He then humiliates himself and posts usually / 60 numbers without showing the TOI. He then humiliates himself again by saying that 8 minutes per game Dewar (with a too small sample size) is better at this than Marner. He then ignores that Dewar is better than Nylander (Marners best comparable) too and humiliates himself again. This time he actually posted that Dewar was better than Nylander so he's slipping.

Of course all of this completely ignores the context that you excellently provided that he'll certainly also ignore. He basically posts spam stats.

It's per/60 stats so it's apples to apples. So..every 60 mins of ice time dewar averages more individual high danger chances than Marner.

Why does TOI matter? Is Dewar gonna get more tires and average less ihdc?

Additionally, Marner is typically at the bottom of the team in IHDC, not mid or closer to top like Nylander.

So.... summarize...its not just one thing it's a compilation:
- slow skater compared to the league
- weak shot compared to the league
- amongst lowest ihdc
- among weakest players in league, weak on skates
- doesnt go to dirty areas

Cooper admitted during thr 4nations that Marner lacks the high end skills of other elite players.

Explain.

 

[Dekes For Days]

whatever man, if you think Mitch is as good as Mac. God bless

It's not about whether he's as good as Mac. Being as good as Mac when he signed would get Marner 14.6m, and being as good as Mac now would get him even more.

It's about the inconsistent justification for pretending he's not worth what he's earned. You set an arbitrary criteria for why Marner should be paid less and ignored the issues with your criteria, and then when your own criteria suggests that he should be paid the same, you shift the criteria. Because this isn't about what he's actually worth. You just decided that you wanted to pay Marner a wildly unrealistic 11m, no matter what he's actually worth.

Ok forget the Cup, just get the 13 goals and 11 assists this playoffs

If the team goes to the finals and Marner experiences what Mackinnon did, 24 points is entirely possible. But that's not going to change the quality of player Marner is or significantly alter his contract.

It is pretty funny because he tried to trade Marner for Rantanen.

No he didn't. He was willing to downgrade from Marner to Rantanen if Marner was committed to leaving and Rantanen would sign. It's pretty funny that people are already trying to misrepresent what happened; as if nobody would remember 3 weeks ago.

 

[IPS]

How the f*** are people actually having a serious conversation about if Marner is comparable to Mackinnon when he signed his current contract?

Go into any room that's serious about discussing hockey with that take and you will be laughed out of the room immediately for suggesting that.

 

[IPS]

but I'm not sure why Matthews is still being considered as a tier above them.

Because he's the best goal scorer in the league since Ovechkin. When you are that caliber - you are in a separate class than 99.9% of players in the league.

 

[ToneDog]

Rantanen was not a guarantee elite player in Toronto, his stint in Carolina was very underwhelming.

True. I gave him the benefit of the doubt as he had no interest in being a Cane or in Carolina. No excuses for him now.

 

[mclaren55]

The other individual is the one who compared them. I'm just pointing out that according to the ridiculous methodology he was using, Marner should make as much as Mackinnon. That's not how contracts work, and Marner likely won't get the cap percentages they got, but comparing top forwards isn't disingenuous. The only thing disingenuous is people pretending that Marner deserves less because he's a playmaker that doesn't take faceoffs.

Historically haven't goal scoring centres been paid the most? Honest question.

 

[IPS]

Historically haven't goal scoring centres been paid the most? Honest question.

Not even centres. Just goal scorers in general. Goal scoring is demonstrably the single most valued and regarded trait among forwards

 

[666]

Why does TOI matter? Is Dewar gonna get more tires [tired] and average less ihdc?

And there you go folks. Now Dewar is better than Marner. What a fool.

edit: Nylander too.