Mitch Marner, Yet Again

Who said he sucks? This is another thing that people make up in their heads so they can come in and be his knight in shining armour. It’s just more dishonest arguing which make Marner homers very difficult to talk to.

He’s an elite player who is overpaid and underperforms in the playoffs. It’s pretty obvious to most people, but some still disagree with that which causes the debates.
Who said he sucks, are you kidding me? Are you new here?

With Marner being the least paid of the big four forwards this year you call him overpaid? I can see an argument for the rumoured numbers he may be paid in the future but I don't see how he's overpaid right now.
 
Hopefully he can get to 100 before game 82 so even if the team rests/asks to rest it won’t be a huge thing

If he’s at 98/99 and He sits the media is gonna eat that shit up and try to find ways to spin it.

Only needs 9 in 8 to do that too, which shouldn’t be hard.
 
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I'd say it's because he's one of our best forwards, especially during the regular season.

Here's one for you:
Marner's production over the course of his career drops bigtime in the playoffs. He also seems to be trending downward in this regard considering in the last two playoff series he played, Marner suffered a PPG drop of more than 50% from the regular season with only 6 points in 12 games. In your considered opinion, is this cause for concern, yes or no?
In the last two playoff series, really?

In the last two playoff years he has 17 points in 18 games...last two series, you could isolate pretty much any player to those silly stats if you're cherry picking that much. That's ridiculous.
 
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In the last two playoff series, really?

In the last two playoff years he has 17 points in 18 games...last two series, you could isolate pretty much any player to those silly stats if you're cherry picking that much. That's ridiculous.
I'll take that as a no, OK fine. Any comment on this:
Marner's production over the course of his career drops bigtime in the playoffs.

Or is that also cherry picking to you?
 
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Hopefully he can get to 100 before game 82 so even if the team rests/asks to rest it won’t be a huge thing

If he’s at 98/99 and He sits the media is gonna eat that shit up and try to find ways to spin it.

Only needs 9 in 8 to do that too, which shouldn’t be hard.
They'll be battling for the division right until the end, no one will be sitting this year.

He tends to put up most of his points against the Florida Teams so he should make 100 this year.
 
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In the last two playoff series, really?

In the last two playoff years he has 17 points in 18 games...last two series, you could isolate pretty much any player to those silly stats if you're cherry picking that much. That's ridiculous.

He does go off the cliff in games 5 6 7
 
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With talk of Mitch upwards of $14M, Knies upwards of $9M and Tavares upwards of $7M, someone's going to have to explain to me how this all works.
Well contrary to some, I think it works by prioritizing the asset we have control over. UFAs should be adjudged with a playoff's performance in hand. I've always liked Tavares. I think $7M is too much. I'm fine with $6M, I'd even go x 4 to offset the annual hit. He'll be 38 at the start of Y4 and there's nothing indicating his production is slowing down. At worst, he becomes that much needed 3C I think.

Shrewd management would make both Knies and Tavares whole without catering to Toronto tax type contracts. Like that has to stop. And on principal if that means Marner's $14M non-negotiable demand isn't met and Tavares' north of $7M isn't met, then we have to issue a press release that all but says, the days of uncontrolled contracts in Toronto are over and other clubs can pay for provisional loyalty. We need to be able to reset expectations and be public about our dilemma (even if only implied) or we're doomed to this circle of insanity.

I think Marner is a completely separate decision. If he is as committed to Toronto as reports note, then like an extended period of negotiation that has held our team captivated for an entire season, if Marner's management team insists a quick conclusion when July 1st hits, or else, then that's a bad faith move that we absolutely do not entertain.
 
Exactly..
Are we finally done with your nonsense? Here's a question. Why did you ignore @thewave when he asked you to include Nylander in your misleading stats? Is it because your misleading stats indicate that Domi is better than Nylander and JT? Let's see what integrity you have now.
 
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Who said he sucks, are you kidding me? Are you new here?

With Marner being the least paid of the big four forwards this year you call him overpaid? I can see an argument for the rumoured numbers he may be paid in the future but I don't see how he's overpaid right now.
I meant he’s been overpaid over the life of the contract. I agree this year he’s probably worth 11 million dollars, but this is the first time we can say that so he should not have made 11 million from the start. And that’s not even considering playoffs.

And for the record, not that the other players on the team dictate whether or not Marner is overpaid, but yes I think they are as well. Nylander got overpaid a bit last year and I think Matthews is overpaid as well. The difference is that this is their second contract. Nylander was underpaid prior and didn’t deserve the same criticism as the other two. Matthews definitely deserves criticism too, but at least he’s shown he’s capable of performing at a level very few players in the league can do. All at their best, Marner is much more comparable to Nylander than he is Matthews but he thinks and acts like the opposite which is causing him backlash.
 
I meant he’s been overpaid over the life of the contract. I agree this year he’s probably worth 11 million dollars, but this is the first time we can say that so he should not have made 11 million from the start. And that’s not even considering playoffs.

And for the record, not that the other players on the team dictate whether or not Marner is overpaid, but yes I think they are as well. Nylander got overpaid a bit last year and I think Matthews is overpaid as well. The difference is that this is their second contract. Nylander was underpaid prior and didn’t deserve the same criticism as the other two. Matthews definitely deserves criticism too, but at least he’s shown he’s capable of performing at a level very few players in the league can do. All at their best, Marner is much more comparable to Nylander than he is Matthews but he thinks and acts like the opposite which is causing him backlash.
Marner has been waaay closer to Matthews over their entire careers. Nylander has just recently closed the gap. Marner is definitely right there with Nylander and Rantanen, in that tier but I'm not sure why Matthews is still being considered as a tier above them. Big difference tho is Marner is going to benefit from a majorly inflated cap. Rantanen probably would've done a lot better if he waited until UFA although he was being stifled in Carolina and everyone was second guessing how good he was without MacKinnon. I hope Marner gets something in the $12+ range but I won't be surprised if he hits $13M now.
 
Marner wore 93? I when was that? I seem to remember him having that number in his AAV and making reference to Gilmour, I don’t remember him wearing that number.

He wore 93 in junior with London my friend and i believe his first prospects camp as a maple leaf
 
Marner has been waaay closer to Matthews over their entire careers. Nylander has just recently closed the gap. Marner is definitely right there with Nylander and Rantanen, in that tier but I'm not sure why Matthews is still being considered as a tier above them. Big difference tho is Marner is going to benefit from a majorly inflated cap. Rantanen probably would've done a lot better if he waited until UFA although he was being stifled in Carolina and everyone was second guessing how good he was without MacKinnon. I hope Marner gets something in the $12+ range but I won't be surprised if he hits $13M now.
He has, but as you say Nylander has closed the gap and they are closer to one another than Matthews. Matthews just had a 69 goal scoring, selke finalist season while playing a tougher position. That’s why he’s regarded as much better than the others even if his consistency isn’t there. I wouldn’t say Marner is consistent either though when looking at the playoffs.

I really do hate these inflated cap projections. It’s exactly what happened last time when Dubas bet on it and overpaid Marner and Matthews. Sure he couldn’t have predicted COVID but who knows what’s going to happen in a few years with everything going on. Marner is definitely going get paid in that 13+ range and unless the cap truly does rise like they say, it’s going to be another overpayment.
 
Same with Matthews. Still got $13+M for FOUR years. Haven't seen the Matthews thread littered with anywhere close to as much nonsense we see in here.
Deflecting to Matthews suggests that you don't want to answer the question which speaks for itself. Seems like that is indeed a concern for you (logical) but you just don't want to admit it (weird).

Matthews gets plenty of criticism, and his production doesn't drop off as much as Marner's.
 
Marner has been waaay closer to Matthews over their entire careers. Nylander has just recently closed the gap. Marner is definitely right there with Nylander and Rantanen, in that tier but I'm not sure why Matthews is still being considered as a tier above them. Big difference tho is Marner is going to benefit from a majorly inflated cap. Rantanen probably would've done a lot better if he waited until UFA although he was being stifled in Carolina and everyone was second guessing how good he was without MacKinnon. I hope Marner gets something in the $12+ range but I won't be surprised if he hits $13M now.
Question is, how much better do you expect Marner to get because that is what we are supposedly going to pay him for. If you look at his numbers, he peaked in 20/21 when he had 97 points in 72 games (1.34 PPG). Since then his PPG has dropped to to 1.2+. His goal scoring is also trending in the wrong direction. He peaked at 35 that year. Has 79 goals in the last 3 seasons). Willie and Matty have continued to reach higher levels (not counting this year for Matty due to injuries).

Many are predicting a deep run. If they do not reach the ECF, he will walk and get his money elsewhere. If they manage to make a deep run, then $13m is not out of the question unless he wants more than Matty, in which case he can f*** off.
 
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He has, but as you say Nylander has closed the gap and they are closer to one another than Matthews. Matthews just had a 69 goal scoring, selke finalist season while playing a tougher position. That’s why he’s regarded as much better than the others even if his consistency isn’t there. I wouldn’t say Marner is consistent either though when looking at the playoffs.
The job Matthews has to do on D is so much tougher than Marner's job. Some people either don't get this or they ignore it, it's still true though.
I really do hate these inflated cap projections. It’s exactly what happened last time when Dubas bet on it and overpaid Marner and Matthews. Sure he couldn’t have predicted COVID but who knows what’s going to happen in a few years with everything going on. Marner is definitely going get paid in that 13+ range and unless the cap truly does rise like they say, it’s going to be another overpayment.
The orange man could be a problem, could think of him as possibly being the new covid.
 
They'll be battling for the division right until the end, no one will be sitting this year.

He tends to put up most of his points against the Florida Teams so he should make 100 this year.
Yea that is true

I just don’t want what happened last year with nylander + Matthews to happen again this season

Nylander got obliterated by Eyessimont vs Tampa in like the last 5 games and then he and Matthews ran into each other in the boards. Nylander ends up missing 3 games because of migraines and those two plays could’ve possibly been a factor in what triggered them.
 
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Question is, how much better do you expect Marner to get because that is what we are supposedly going to pay him for. If you look at his numbers, he peaked in 20/21 when he had 97 points in 72 games (1.34 PPG). Since then his PPG has dropped to to 1.2+. His goal scoring is also trending in the wrong direction. He peaked at 35 that year. Has 79 goals in the last 3 seasons). Willie and Matty have continued to reach higher levels (not counting this year for Matty due to injuries).

Many are predicting a deep run. If they do not reach the ECF, he will walk and get his money elsewhere. If they manage to make a deep run, then $13m is not out of the question unless he wants more than Matty, in which case he can f*** off.
He didn't peak in 2021, I referenced this a couple pages ago. Our team's goals for was around 315 in 2021, this year we're on pace to score 267 goals. Marner is in on 38% of all of Leafs goals this year which will be his highest ever points percentage. in 2021 he was in on 36% of our teams goals. We're scoring less goals as a team but Marner's point totals don't change, it's a sign that he's more important than ever right now.
 
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Deflecting to Matthews suggests that you don't want to answer the question which speaks for itself. Seems like that is indeed a concern for you (logical) but you just don't want to admit it (weird).

Matthews gets plenty of criticism, and his production doesn't drop off as much as Marner's.
It's a concern that our 1st line drops off in production, 100%.

It has always been the second biggest concern though that since 2016 we've never had the best goaltending in a series - even in the series we won. I'm hopeful that changes this year.
 
It's a concern that our 1st line drops off in production, 100%.

It has always been the second biggest concern though that since 2016 we've never had the best goaltending in a series - even in the series we won. I'm hopeful that changes this year.

I would argue the D core is worse
 
He didn't peak in 2021, I referenced this a couple pages ago. Our team's goals for was around 315 in 2021, this year we're on pace to score 267 goals. Marner is in on 38% of all of Leafs goals this year which will be his highest ever points percentage. in 2021 he was in on 36% of our teams goals. We're scoring less goals as a team but Marner's point totals don't change, it's a sign that he's more important than ever right now.
Marner being in on a higher percentage of goals could be that outside the top 2 lines, we do not get much production. Marner also gets the most TOI, #1 PP time and the PP goes through him so it is virtually impossible for him not to get a point on a PPG. He also gets EN points because is usually o the ice. He's had a good year but he's been better IMO. Honestly I do not recall him playing so far away from the net in the past.
 
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Marner being in on a higher percentage of goals could be that outside the top 2 lines, we do not get much production. Marner also gets the most TOI, #1 PP time and the PP goes through him so it is virtually impossible for him not to get a point on a PPG. He also gets EN points because is usually o the ice. He's had a good year but he's been better IMO. Honestly I do not recall him playing so far away from the net in the past.

Pretty sure he has less EN goals and points than William Nylander this year
 

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