Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Dekes For Days]

Draisaitl did not get 15.9%.

Yes he did.

Mitch should be above Willy based on history of production. But below pasta.

Marner should be above both Nylander and Pastrnak.

Drai is a much better player

No he's not.

the idea that Matthews/Marner and Nylander out performed their contracts by a similar amount is nuts.

No it's what actually happened. Nylander put up 0.94 P/GP through his contract, while Matthews and Marner put up 1.27 and 1.24, while being better at everything outside of production.

Mitch has reportedly by all accounts refused to engage in contracts.

He refused to sign in-season. There was never any indication that he wasn't willing to sign last offseason.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are manipulating the truth as usual.
Do you actually believe anyone is buying it ??

I haven't manipulated anything or said anything untrue. You're free to dig in on your beliefs, but some of us like to discuss what's actually going on.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I haven't manipulated anything or said anything untrue. You're free to dig in on your beliefs, but some of us like to discuss what's actually going on.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Jaska]

Mitch has so much more grit and fight than Drai.

Or maybe not.

 

[arso40]

Draisaitl got 15.9%, and while he's a very good player, especially on the PP, Marner is a better player at 5v5 and and the PK. I don't think Marner is going to get 15.9%, but he will likely justifiably get in the 14-15% range. Many good teams would pay him that.

Yes, we should have pushed harder to sign Marner last offseason if it was possible, instead of playing these stupid games with one of the best players this franchise has ever had.

Yes it has. It just hasn't got us a cup yet. People need to learn the difference.

Nobody needs to go. That's an emotional reaction. Measuring "progress" strictly by round wins is shortsighted. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all outperformed their contracts by a similar amount, and players don't get extra money now because they were worse when they signed a fair contract last time. That's still looking backwards anyway. This should be about what helps us the most going forward, and that's keeping Marner. And if we did have to get rid of somebody (we don't), that's keeping Marner over Nylander.

That won't necessarily make the depth scoring better and more consistent than what we've had though. It will just make it more expensive. Mid tier UFAs is where money gets thrown away. And even if you did make the depth better, it's still unlikely that the team overall is better, because you're losing a massively impactful piece of the team in the process.

But hey, if we had 3-5m for depth players, we could sign brand new tier of depth that we've never before experienced... Like Mikheyev! Oh wait we already had him... Like Bunting! Oh wait we already had him... Like O'Rielly! Oh wait we already had him... Like Kerfoot! Oh wait we already had him... Like Foligno! Oh wait we already had him... Like Engvall! Oh wait we already had him... Like Domi! Oh wait we already had him... Like Bertuzzi! Oh wait we already had him... Like Laughton! Oh wait we already had him... Etc.

And not only have we already had that calibre of depth, the rising cap is going to give us opportunities to sign these kinds of players in UFA without getting rid of one of our best players.

We have 8 forwards on 2m+ contracts. Of the 14 forwards that Florida used in the playoffs, 8 were on 2m+ contracts.

Dekes shut up man it’s over your case can rest your probably the only one that would even try to make a case you’d make a hell of a lawyer though I will give you that

 

[francis246]

Some believe he was going to do that before Shanahan fired him.

I do believe this is the case and so do a lot of insiders. There’s been a lot of smoke around it. Dubas even said it in his post season presser after the Florida loss. Not saying it would have been a good deal because it sounds like it would have been something around Marner for Karlsson but there’s reporting that even Marner himself believed he was getting traded after Florida (reported by Jonas Seigal), so I do believe there is truth that they were ready to move on from him. A part of why Shanny probably fired Dubas was probably due to the fact that Dubas wanted to make that move and Shanny wouldn’t let him.

 

[Anthrax442]

No he's not.

Drai is on another level. He is a game breaker. To say that they are same or Marner better is disingenuous

 

[Dekes For Days]

Drai is on another level. He is a game breaker.

They are on a similar level. They are both game breakers.

 

[francis246]

Not sure why anyone would want Ehlers. You guys think Mitch is bad in the playoffs, wait till you see this guy. 4 goals in 37 games, and he has a history of injuries.

He was visibly frustrated, actually cross checked a couple of people. Surprised someone didn’t pummel him to be honest.

Never thought I’d say this, but I agree with you whole heartedly. Ehlers is not the answer. I’d love Boeser. I feel like he’s a guy the fanbase can get behind. He’s a right hand shot, who can score and maybe needs the right situation.

Nelson or Bennett, Boeser, Chychrun. If Tavares wants around 4/5 mill. Include him as well. That’s my four. Trade Rielly for whatever you can get for him.

Darkhorse is convince Matt Duchene to come play here.

 

[GoonieFace]

You are manipulating the truth as usual.

Do you actually believe anyone is buying it ??

People need to just stop responding to this obvious AI generated poster

 

[arso40]

View attachment 993590

What a difference love that kid Hes the next captain

 

[arso40]

They are on a similar level. They are both game breakers.

Marner is not a game breaker when healthy we have 2 Matthew’s nylander that’s it

 

[thewave]

They are on a similar level. They are both game breakers.

One breaks games in his teams favour. Marner just breaks his team.

 

[francis246]

Leafs punted in round 1 and Rantanen hoisting the Cup as a Dallas Star in June would be so Leafy.

The leafs only have themselves to blame. They are stupid. If they wanted Marner to waive & they really wanted Rantanen, they should have got Rantanen out of Colorado. I guarantee Marner maybe would have at least thought about waiving to go to Colorado.

 

[thewave]

The leafs only have themselves to blame. They are stupid. If they wanted Marner to waive & they really wanted Rantanen, they should have got Rantanen out of Colorado. I guarantee Marner maybe would have at least thought about waiving to go to Colorado.

Possible but Marner is extremely tone-deaf

 

[JL17]

Yes he did.

Marner should be above both Nylander and Pastrnak.

No he's not.

No it's what actually happened. Nylander put up 0.94 P/GP through his contract, while Matthews and Marner put up 1.27 and 1.24, while being better at everything outside of production.

He refused to sign in-season. There was never any indication that he wasn't willing to sign last offseason.

Pastrnak is also above Mitch. The guy is willing his team to try and make the playoffs and has no help this year and is beating Mitch in points. Remember when Mitch watched him fly by to win the series last year. He may not be good defensively but he makes up for that with being clutch and being able to score goals.

 

[francis246]

Possible but Marner is extremely tone-deaf

How is he tone deaf? Who the f*** wants to go play in Carolina. Not even Rantanen wanted to stay there? The owner is cheap as hell, they won’t land any big free agents. I don’t blame Marner at all. Carolina isn’t a desirable destination.

At least with Colorado he has some familiarity with Nathan MacKinnon and a few other guys. I honestly think Marner would have waived to go there, if that was presented earlier, with time for him to think about it.

 

[Stephen]

This is basically the opposite of the scientific method. This is we've tried nothing and it hasn't worked! Changing the 3rd line center that Matthews doesn't even play with isn't a valid method for determining he's the problem.

To figure out the problem, you slowly remove core players and find out if things change. The thing about Matthews is his game has no weakness aside from health. At his best, he's a strong goalscorer, he's a strong faceoff man, he's strong defensively and he can be physical and play in a physical series.

The problem is he's been surrounded by players with clear weaknesses and I think eventually he's like why do I have to be the only one who goes in on the forecheck, or hits, or cares defensively, etc. You put Matthews on Florida and he would shine. You need to build a team around him that plays the way you want him to play. The same way Calgary got tired of M. Tkachuk's antics yet Florida built a Cup winner around them.

What is clear right now is this core is the problem. That doesn't mean we got to get rid of every player in the core. How about we keep the 69 goal scoring Selke-finalist centre that we'll be dreaming about when we trade him?

We can start to explore the changes of the team when we hopefully walk away from the softest player of this core, Marner, this summer.

The scientific method of isolating pieces that don't work around Auston and Mitch?

-Lamoriello, GM
-Dubas, GM
-Babcock, coach
-Keefe, coach
-Kadri, core player
-Hyman, linemate
-Bunting, linemate
-van Riemsdyk, linemate
-Bozak, linemate
-Brown, linemate
-Anderssen, goalie
-Campbell, goalie
-Samsonov, goalie
-Gardiner, top 4 defenseman
-Muzzin, top 4 defenseman
-Brodie, top 4 defenseman
-Barrie, top 4 defenseman
-Boyle, veteran babysitter
-Thornton, veteran babysitter
-Komarov, veteran babysitter
-Simmonds, veteran babysitter
-Marleau, veteran babysitter
-Giordano, veteran babysitter

9 years is a long time to spend on a science experiment. How about just a functional contending hockey team?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Pastrnak is also above Mitch. The guy is willing his team to try and make the playoffs and has no help this year and is beating Mitch in points.

Whatever you think of what Pastrnak is doing this year is irrelevant. It didn't factor into his contract.

 

[Hellcat]

No one can be this stupid.
The answer is I watch the games.
If Marner primary assists on approximately 50% of Matthews goals when he has a 16% sh% then how many times is Matthews missing Marners setups when he's only shooting 4%. Watch the games.

Trust me they can...

 

[francis246]

The scientific method of isolating pieces that don't work around Auston and Mitch?

-Lamoriello, GM
-Dubas, GM
-Babcock, coach
-Keefe, coach
-Kadri, core player
-Hyman, linemate
-Bunting, linemate
-van Riemsdyk, linemate
-Bozak, linemate
-Brown, linemate
-Anderssen, goalie
-Campbell, goalie
-Samsonov, goalie
-Gardiner, top 4 defenseman
-Muzzin, top 4 defenseman
-Brodie, top 4 defenseman
-Barrie, top 4 defenseman
-Boyle, veteran babysitter
-Thornton, veteran babysitter
-Komarov, veteran babysitter
-Simmonds, veteran babysitter
-Marleau, veteran babysitter
-Giordano, veteran babysitter

9 years is a long time to spend on a science experiment. How about just a functional contending hockey team?

This is not a good faith argument at all. This is insinuating that all these players were moved because of Marner/Matthews and we know that’s not true. So I can’t believe you would even insinuate that.

 

[Racer88]

Whatever you think of what Pastrnak is doing this year is irrelevant. It didn't factor into his contract.

Why does it not factor in

 

[JL17]

Whatever you think of what Pastrnak is doing this year is irrelevant. It didn't factor into his contract.

What about the last 4 or 5 years. He does have more 100pt seasons than Mitch.

 

[ULF_55]

80pts in 64 games with an injured Matthews as his center.

Be interesting to see how many points Nylander and marner would have together.

Both skate well, both excellent passers, both apparently healthy with no built in excuses.

 

[Stephen]

This is not a good faith argument at all. This is insinuating that all these players were moved because of Marner/Matthews and we know that’s not true. So I can’t believe you would even insinuate that.

No, the discussion is about observation and isolating different variables around the team. How many more years of observation and revolving cast of personnel with the exact same results before targeting the only constants?

By and large it’s a Matthews and Marner led problem with a revolving door of everything else. Completely interchangeable.