Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[arso40]

80pts in 64 games with an injured Matthews as his center.

Didnt Willy have similar numbers last year ?

 

[Gabriel426]

HES INJURED are you that ignorant bro you can clearly see his patent wrist shot isnt happening move past that the problem is there’s someone in the room that thinks he’s as good or better and wants to be paid as such it’s hard to lead when there’s someone else in the room challenging you leading only problem is if he wasn’t injured we’d be talking about what we should be talkin about which is the other player who it looks like has become a distraction it’s only a couple games so I can be blowing that out of proportion but Matthews looked good today despite only scoring once marner and jt didnt look good today and that coincides with playing with marner every line he was on didnt look good today

That’s the problem, he flips flops every other year.

On top of that, he is supposed to be our guy, our alpha, leading charge. Not someone looking at someone else to lead the team.

 

[Gabriel426]

He does it more than the rest of the core already. You can make Matthews a forechecker but then who's putting the puck in the net - Marner?

That's the problem. The team is built wrong and it's evident by people wanting arguably the best even-strength goalscorer of all time to be leading the forecheck instead of potting goals.

Even in the last minute, on dump ins Matthews is the one hustling to his corner to regain the puck. I don't get why people get this narrative that Matthews doesn't forecheck or take physical contact. Him and Tavares do it the most of the star players on this team.

Nylander is 50/50. He sometimes decides he wants to go into the boards, and the other half he'll just do that dumb circle back to avoid contact.

Marner - forget about it. You'll be lucky if he shoves the guy punching his teammate while he's on the ground.

Mack does the same thing and still scores and creates.

Let’s stop making excuses for AM. He is someone who constantly gets outplayed by lesser C in the playoffs.

Had he even dominated ONE playoffs series? He has been pretty much the 3rd best C in the past few regular seasons and yet he got outplayed pretty much every single series.

To me, he is proving he is a goal scoring version of Eichel with each playoffs than a goal scoring Mack. In that he needs players to do stuff for him instead of leading charge

 

[arso40]

That’s the problem, he flips flops every other year.

On top of that, he is supposed to be our guy, our alpha, leading charge. Not someone looking at someone else to lead the team.

I don’t think he’s looking for someone else to lead though Hes playing through injury and not even alluding to the fact he is injured I think that’s a good leader the support needs to be better that’s where my issue is

 

[Divine]

Mack does the same thing and still scores and creates.

Let’s stop making excuses for AM. He is someone who constantly gets outplayed by lesser C in the playoffs.

Had he even dominated ONE playoffs series? He has been pretty much the 3rd best C in the past few regular seasons and yet he got outplayed pretty much every single series.

To me, he is proving he is a goal scoring version of Eichel with each playoffs than a goal scoring Mack. In that he needs players to do stuff for him instead of leading charge

MacK is not even the forechecker on his line. He does it way less than Matthews. Just because he skates fast doesn't mean he forechecks. MacK is a rush player, not a forechecker.

I think you're confusing MacKinnon with Lehkonen.

 

[arso40]

MacK is not even the forechecker on his line. He does it way less than Matthews. Just because he skates fast doesn't mean he forechecks. MacK is a rush player, not a grinder.

I think you're confusing MacKinnon with Lehkonen.

Lehkonen would be the knies but your point still stands mac is nowhere near the forcheccer Matthews is Hes just a dog on a bone he plays like he juices Matthews needs a bit of that for sure the best Matthews has looked in the playoffs is away from marner and with domi

 

[Divine]

Lehkonen would be the knies but your point still stands mac is nowhere near the forcheccer Matthews is Hes just a dog on a bone he plays like he juices Matthews needs a bit of that for sure the best Matthews has looked in the playoffs is away from marner and with domi

I feel like people don't actually watch other players and just make up how they think they play.

This is the first time I've heard anyone call MacKinnon a forecheker, especially moreso than Matthews. MacK plays in the corners way less than Matthews. When he was playing with Rantanen and Lehkonen, both of them would forecheck while MacK waited near the faceoff circle or would wander to the blueline. MacK's game is closest in play style to Nylander. He likes to wait at the faceoff circles, rush in, and occasionally wander around the blueline for a one timer. He'll go to the net more often than Nylander but they play similarly.

People at this point just blame Matthews because they don't understand how other star players play and assume they're all doing everything when they're not. Matthews goes to the corner way more than most other star players, especially centers. I feel Leafs fans are spoiled because Sundin would go to the corners also so they just assume every star player does it. Lots of star players do it way less frequently than Matthews. You'll have some wingers that do it more often but in terms of centres Matthews battles as much as the best of them. Draisaitl does it a lot also, but Draisaitl is always late coming back for D. He'll always be caught in the corner and then coast back and be the last man back.

At this point people just take Matthews for granted. If he was on Florida, everyone would be saying we need a player like that to build around. Meanwhile they praise Eichel who's way softer because he joined a team that went to the SCF and added Pietrangelo and him to that already stacked team.

 

[arso40]

I feel like people don't actually watch other players and just make up how they think they play.

This is the first time I've heard anyone call MacKinnon a forecheker, especially moreso than Matthews. MacK plays in the corners way less than Matthews. When he was playing with Rantanen and Lehkonen, both of them would forecheck while MacK waited near the faceoff circle or would wander to the blueline. MacK's game is closest in play style to Nylander. He likes to wait at the faceoff circles, rush in, and occasionally wander around the blueline for a one timer. He'll go to the net more often than Nylander but they play similarly.

People at this point just blame Matthews because they don't understand how other star players play and assume they're all doing everything when they're not. Matthews goes to the corner way more than most other star players, especially centers. I feel Leafs fans are spoiled because Sundin would go to the corners also so they just assume every star player does it. Lots of star players do it way less frequently than Matthews. You'll have some wingers that do it more often but in terms of centres Matthews battles as much as the best of them. Draisaitl does it a lot also, but Draisaitl is always late coming back for D. He'll always be caught in the corner and then coast back and be the last man back.

At this point people just take Matthews for granted. If he was on Florida, everyone would be saying we need a player like that to build around. Meanwhile they praise Eichel who's way softer because he joined a team that went to the SCF and added Pietrangelo and him to that already stacked team.

His play style is more marner marners third man high nylander is usually first or second man on the forechecc if you watch the games but agree with Matthews 100 percent

 

[Leafs87]

I don’t think he’s looking for someone else to lead though Hes playing through injury and not even alluding to the fact he is injured I think that’s a good leader the support needs to be better that’s where my issue is

Marner isn’t looking for support money. He should the guy if they wants 14 mill.

 

[arso40]

Marner isn’t looking for support money. He should the guy if they wants 14 mill.

He’s not returning we already know that but in terms of salary Hes our 4th highest player, still high for a support role but that’s the case for this year put him with players that complement him away from Matthew and nylander I’m sure he’ll be much better in a secondary role gotta get use to life without him anyway

 

[leafs in five]

We do not actually already know that

 

[The Shadow]

After their first round loss coming up most likely (based on current play) he will be run out of town

 

[thewave]

After their first round loss coming up most likely (based on current play) he will be run out of town

If his name was Jake Gardiner he would have been run out of town last night. One of the worst displays I have ever seen in my life. Matthews is looking dead and miserable too. Even Nylander. Coach is just like it's up to them man lol.

18 Wheelering it right before the playoffs lol

 

[Legion34]

If he goes there isn’t a ton in ufa.
I wouldn’t mind paying JT or someone a bigger salary for 1 year and keep your powder dry and reload.

If JT wants 3 x 6.5. Then if we had no one to spend it on, give him 10 that year then. 2 years at like 4 to make more space when better players are available

 

[Hellcat]

Call a spade a spade, Mitch has been dogshit the last 2 games. Needs to be better

 

[DarkKnight]

Maybe his worst game this season last night, mentally wasn’t there and content to play the margins.

 

[ToneDog]

One of these three thinks he is worth $14m. Which one is worth $14m?

 

[ToneDog]

Call a spade a spade, Mitch has been dogshit the last 2 games. Needs to be better

Maybe his worst game this season last night, mentally wasn’t there and content to play the margins.

If it is because teams start taking away ice and time and play a heavier game as they get closer to the playoffs, he is done here because it will be tighter in the playoffs. Sorry, this guy does not dominate games like any of the highest paid players to deserve whatever he is asking for. That is the issue for me because all this core has proven is that paying them half the cap will never work.

 

[666]

I'll ask again, because ou seem to have missed my question. What Marner setups? How are you tracking these supposed setups Matthews is missing? Do you have a link to the stats that indicate all Marners prime passes that have gone unscored.

No one can be this stupid.
The answer is I watch the games.
If Marner primary assists on approximately 50% of Matthews goals when he has a 16% sh% then how many times is Matthews missing Marners setups when he's only shooting 4%. Watch the games.

 

[ToneDog]

If he goes there isn’t a ton in ufa.
I wouldn’t mind paying JT or someone a bigger salary for 1 year and keep your powder dry and reload.

If JT wants 3 x 6.5. Then if we had no one to spend it on, give him 10 that year then. 2 years at like 4 to make more space when better players are available

Hopefully Cowan can stick next year and make a dent. If Marner walks they will go hard after Bennett and/or Ehlers. Boeser and Nelson probably sign in Minny. Ekblad and/or Chychrun should be brought in to replace Rielly who they need to move. Tavares would need to take a serious discount if he wants to return. Too slow and his hands are cement on most nights.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not sure why anyone would want Ehlers. You guys think Mitch is bad in the playoffs, wait till you see this guy. 4 goals in 37 games, and he has a history of injuries.

He was visibly frustrated, actually cross checked a couple of people. Surprised someone didn’t pummel him to be honest.

 

[thewave]

Hopefully Cowan can stick next year and make a dent. If Marner walks they will go hard after Bennett and/or Ehlers. Boeser and Nelson probably sign in Minny. Ekblad and/or Chychrun should be brought in to replace Rielly who they need to move. Tavares would need to take a serious discount if he wants to return. Too slow and his hands are cement on most nights.

Getting to the point that the Leafs are a hard pass from serious contender type players. Marner is radioactive here, forced his way here right now with his NMC and refusing to waive. Its over man. Coach just said they aren't responsive so thats it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Draisatl got 14.6% of the 95 million cap next season after putting up 110, 128 and 106 with 2 of those seasons being 50 goal seasons. No way in hell Marner should be asking anywhere close to 15-16% of the cap and the only teams willing to give that are bottom feeders like Chicago or SJ most likely.

Draisaitl got 15.9%, and while he's a very good player, especially on the PP, Marner is a better player at 5v5 and and the PK. I don't think Marner is going to get 15.9%, but he will likely justifiably get in the 14-15% range. Many good teams would pay him that.

Notice how those 2 players you named also signed a year before their contracts were up.

Yes, we should have pushed harder to sign Marner last offseason if it was possible, instead of playing these stupid games with one of the best players this franchise has ever had.

Keeping Marner hasn't got us any closer to a cup.

Yes it has. It just hasn't got us a cup yet. People need to learn the difference.

This entire core hasn't made any progress in 8 seasons towards winning a cup. None at all. 1 has to go. Getting rid of your #1C makes zero sense. The 2C is getting much less on his next deal. Nylander the only one who has committed for 8 years and was the 1 guy in this core that performed well above what they were being paid on their last deal.

Nobody needs to go. That's an emotional reaction. Measuring "progress" strictly by round wins is shortsighted. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all outperformed their contracts by a similar amount, and players don't get extra money now because they were worse when they signed a fair contract last time. That's still looking backwards anyway. This should be about what helps us the most going forward, and that's keeping Marner. And if we did have to get rid of somebody (we don't), that's keeping Marner over Nylander.

I'd much rather pay 3 players 4-5 mil each and put them on the 3rd line which would make the depth scoring better and more consistent.

That won't necessarily make the depth scoring better and more consistent than what we've had though. It will just make it more expensive. Mid tier UFAs is where money gets thrown away. And even if you did make the depth better, it's still unlikely that the team overall is better, because you're losing a massively impactful piece of the team in the process.

But hey, if we had 3-5m for depth players, we could sign brand new tier of depth that we've never before experienced... Like Mikheyev! Oh wait we already had him... Like Bunting! Oh wait we already had him... Like O'Rielly! Oh wait we already had him... Like Kerfoot! Oh wait we already had him... Like Foligno! Oh wait we already had him... Like Engvall! Oh wait we already had him... Like Domi! Oh wait we already had him... Like Bertuzzi! Oh wait we already had him... Like Laughton! Oh wait we already had him... Etc.

And not only have we already had that calibre of depth, the rising cap is going to give us opportunities to sign these kinds of players in UFA without getting rid of one of our best players.

We have 3 forwards making 2+ mil.

We have 8 forwards on 2m+ contracts. Of the 14 forwards that Florida used in the playoffs, 8 were on 2m+ contracts.

 

[ToneDog]

Not sure why anyone would want Ehlers. You guys think Mitch is bad in the playoffs, wait till you see this guy. 4 goals in 37 games, and he has a history of injuries.

He was visibly frustrated, actually cross checked a couple of people. Surprised someone didn’t pummel him to be honest.

You can't be bad in the playoffs if you are making 11 sheets. Expectations will be lower for Ehlers at the right AAV. Marner is overpaid for what he brings as it is. If the Leafs do not realize this at this point, they may as well keep selling f***ing jerseys and stop patronizing this loyal fanbase.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Let him (and Tavares) walk. Time to retool this roster.

We need guys who will actually play to win and want to win. Not a bunch of Mercs who only care about money.