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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

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Da Mash said:
This is all hearsay ......we have no idea what Tre was thinking or what was said. Mediots speculation isn't in most cases the truth.

Maybe he asked Marner to waive only because Rantanen (another elite player) was available for a 1 for 1 swap. Tre IMHO wasnt asking Marner to waive for draft picks and secondary players.

Or Carolina asked about Marner and the mediots decided that it was Marners fault for not waiving for the deal to go thru and in reality Tre never asked Marner to waive and said No to Carolina. I mean if he offered Minten, Cowan and two 1st rd picks initially .....dont you think maybe Tre wanted Marner and Rantanen both for the cup run and didnt want Marner to leave?

Till we actually here it from the GM's mouth or Marners camp then all this crap spewed is just hogwash. It gets the mediots clicks or they want viewers to watch them debate about it. All for the sake to cause a stir and we all know the TO mediots best work is to cause a stir. Maybe they should knock on Marners parents door and ask them.....they will stoop lower to get clicks.
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:lol::loony:
 
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Legion34 said:
Matthews at age 27 is 7th all time in goals.
He is a 2 time 60’goal scorer, 3 time rocket winner, and a hart and person winner.

They aren’t the same. Marner has zero argument.

He’s better than Willy but they are in a class.

Matthews is injured. When healthy he is minimum top 3. Mack has really come on.
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HUH?
 
Dekes For Days said:
There is natural progression built into post-ELC contracts, just as there is natural regression built into mid-late 30s contracts. What you do as a teenager informs but doesn't equal what you're expected to do through your prime. It's how McDavid gets offered 17.67% for pacing 96 points. It's why players like Stutzle pace 54 points and get over 10%.

Pacing 76 points through that early age (and putting up a performance like he did in his final season) is very rare. And that per-game pace actually undervalues Marner's relative quality and impact during that time, due to being on a team that got very few PPs, in an era when league PPs were already at a low. He was one of the best performing young forwards in the entire cap era through his pre-signing period.

They knew the cap would rise, and normal cap progression is built into contracts with term, but I don't think anybody knew that we were getting jumps in the cap like this until recently, and you sign under the cap you sign under. It's not about paying him more because the cap is going to rise. It's about the same percentage resulting in a higher AAV due to the cap. As the cap continues to rise, players worse than Marner getting lower percentages will get higher AAVs than him. We didn't see it as much through this past contract because the cap abnormally stagnated through the majority of it.

But also, you can't apply future seasons to a contract. You were pointing at Mackinnon's 110+ point seasons, but he didn't have that when he signed (his career high was also, funny enough, 99 points). There are only 4 players that have paced 110+ points over the past 3 years, and only 2 signed contracts after doing so. Both Mackinnon and Draisaitl got contracts in the 15-16% range, and I doubt Marner signs for that much, even though he could probably get it if he pushed it.

When I say that "I'm not okay with just being better than a bottom feeder", it doesn't mean that I think we'd only be slightly better than a bottom feeder. It means that you talking about how much better we'd be compared to when we were a bottom feeder isn't reassuring, as that's not a comparison relevant to where this team should be. It's really simple. Losing Marner makes us worse. I don't want to get worse. I want to get better and win a cup.

We have 10 players outside of the core 4 on 2m+ contracts, and this is the highest percentage that the core 4 will ever take up. And yes, winning teams do tend to have a lot of cheap depth players, and get surplus value from efficiencies there.
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Yeah yeah we hear it all the time. Greatest two way player of all time and best goal scorer in the league and here we are 9 years later still hoping for a playoff run that lasts more than a week and it's everyone else fault because those league min guys can't score enough.

Draisatl got 14.6% of the 95 million cap next season after putting up 110, 128 and 106 with 2 of those seasons being 50 goal seasons. No way in hell Marner should be asking anywhere close to 15-16% of the cap and the only teams willing to give that are bottom feeders like Chicago or SJ most likely. Notice how those 2 players you named also signed a year before their contracts were up.

Keeping Marner hasn't got us any closer to a cup. This entire core hasn't made any progress in 8 seasons towards winning a cup. None at all. 1 has to go. Getting rid of your #1C makes zero sense. The 2C is getting much less on his next deal. Nylander the only one who has committed for 8 years and was the 1 guy in this core that performed well above what they were being paid on their last deal. I'd much rather pay 3 players 4-5 mil each and put them on the 3rd line which would make the depth scoring better and more consistent. We have 3 forwards making 2+ mil. Domi, Kampf and Jarnkrok. Domi makes 3.75, Kampf makes 2.4 and Jarnkrok makes 2.1. Kampf was mainly signed to be a defensive C who can PK and he hasn't even been great at that. Jarnkrok became one of the most overrated depth scorers because of that 1 20 goal season. Biggest ghost in the playoffs too so idk why we keep him around. Domi just can't score/hit the net. His playmaking could be useful but he can't be relied upon to be carrying a lines offence. Winning teams don't really have that many cheap depth players who help much when it comes scoring. Look at Florida last season. Top paid players making 9.5-10 mil led them in scoring which is expected. The rest were guys making 3 - 4.5 mil. Only players you'd consider the cheap ones were Lundell who was on his ELC and now making 5 mil and Forsling who played like 23 mins a game while making 2.6 mil and now 5.75.

We don't need 1 player coming in to replace Marners 90-100 point season to make us better. All we need is to use that money to bring in guys who can get 20 goals and around 45-50 points throughout the lineup. This way teams can't just stack 1 line to shut down our top line because if they do we have 2 other lines that could score. I'll take 3 guys making 4 mil and 1 making 1 mil over 1 guy making 13 mil, especially when we're already paying our #1C 13 mil and our 40 goal scoring 90 point winger 11.5.
 
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