Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[GoonieFace]

Playmakers need finishers to be effective. Just because Rantanen scores a lot of goals does not mean he isn’t a good setup man.
Also, he can be defensively responsible. Just because a player doesn’t sit high in the offensive zone and is the first guy back, doesn’t mean he isn’t good defensively.
Give me the big, fast, goal scoring winger any day of the week over the slower, smaller, perimeter winger. You can supplement any perceived defensive difference by acquiring those types of wingers, for much less of a premium.

 

[ToneDog]

Not buying the theory that Rantanen's deal sets a cap on what Marner can expect to get as a free agent. Marner will get a bump--likely a sizeable one--by being available to the highest bidder, especially with the rising cap. There will be teams bending over backwards to write him the biggest cheque if given the opportunity.

It is obviously what Marner is counting on by not negotiating now. My guess is $14 million per at least.

I think Marner will walk unless they have playoff success. I don't think he wants to be here without it. I just hope he realizes that the 3 amigos are the most responsible for not achieving it. You can't demand and sign for all the money and then blame the bottom 6 for lack of scoring or a goalie you picked up off the curb for losing 2-1 in OT of game #7.

As Futa said, with payoff success he might agree to a better deal but he also said Marner wants close to Matthews. Not a good look but with playoff success it might be more digestible to the fanbase.

 

[Confucius]

I think Marner will walk unless they have playoff success. I don't think he wants to be here without it. I just hope he realizes that the 3 amigos are the most responsible for not achieving it. You can't demand and sign for all the money and then blame the bottom 6 for lack of scoring or a goalie you picked up off the curb for losing 2-1 in OT of game #7.

As Futa said, with payoff success he might agree to a better deal but he also said Marner wants close to Matthews. Not a good look but with playoff success it might be more digestible to the fanbase.

As a comparison he’d get as close to Mathews as he is to winning a Hart and Lindsay.

 

[ToneDog]

As a comparison he’d get as close to Mathews as he is to winning a Hart and Lindsay.

He'll argue Matthews signed for less term based on a lower cap. The Leafs made their bed and the 3 amigos milked them for it. I'd let him walk if he wants close to $13m unless they win the SC and that is not likely to happen. Shanny needs to also be gone and the insanity stopped.

 

[thewave]

And you could argue he doesn’t need them either, which is what your first sentence confirms. Are we really arguing that good players are good? I mean it’s a symbiotic relationship, so Marner is self sufficient, the same as the shooters. Seems an odd way to try and undermine what he brings.

Playmakers are useless without people that put the puck in the net. if he is with a couple of 20 goal scorers what can you expect? Maybe his playmaking bumps them up to 25 goals each. His point total are dependent on his goal scorers and always will be..

 

[The Masters]

I think Marner will walk unless they have playoff success. I don't think he wants to be here without it. I just hope he realizes that the 3 amigos are the most responsible for not achieving it. You can't demand and sign for all the money and then blame the bottom 6 for lack of scoring or a goalie you picked up off the curb for losing 2-1 in OT of game #7.

As Futa said, with payoff success he might agree to a better deal but he also said Marner wants close to Matthews. Not a good look but with playoff success it might be more digestible to the fanbase.

both parties should walk from eachother.

 

[ToneDog]

both parties should walk from eachother.

Honestly I am sick and tired of this core, their lack of accountability, bullshit interviews and their playoff failures. They became the most unlikeable core the minute the 3 became RFAs. I'd start over around Nylander and Cowan if Nylander had the work ethic of Nate MaKinnon.

Too late to do anything now. We have 4 more kicks at the can before we fall back into the basement for half a decade if we are lucky.

 

[The Masters]

Honestly I am sick and tired of this core, their lack of accountability, bullshit interviews and their playoff failures. They became the most unlikeable core the minute the 3 became RFAs. I'd start over around Nylander and Cowan if Nylander had the work ethic of Nate MaKinnon.

Too late to do anything now. We have 4 more kicks at the can before we fall back into the basement for half a decade if we are lucky.

yep.

I've said this a lot on here but Leafs are a business first .... winning hockey team second. They will never take away from their business .. just let the gravy train run its course till it crashes and burns lol

 

[Da Mash]

Too funny with hating the core.

We hated the Sundin core
Now we hate this core.
Yet Clark and Domi core got a pass and they won squat. But ....they cared supposedly ....they fought....they won some playoff series......hahaha.....they still won squat.
What did Sittler and Salming core win?

But we pick and choose who we like even though it makes no logical sense.

Yeah....thats it.....these players dont care ....hahaha. What hogwash. I swear most of you never played sports at a high level and have no idea the work these players put in. I mean how many times do you have to hear from players coming here saying the work ethic from our elite players are lights out.? But fans sit in their basement and cry over this core doesnt care enough.

You know what playoff success is? Winning the Lord Stanley. Nothing else is matters. Matchups happen...... teams like the Bruins who dominated in regular season can lose in the 1st rd.
Even if they lost in the 3rd round its a failure.
They had a HOF team with Chara etc for how many years? 1 cup? yr 2011...... So all the rest of the years were failures because its damn hard to win the cup.

 

[thewave]

Too funny with hating the core.

We hated the Sundin core
Now we hate this core.
Yet Clark and Domi core got a pass and they won squat. But ....they cared supposedly ....they fought....they won some playoff series......hahaha.....they still won squat.
What did Sittler and Salming core win?

But we pick and choose who we like even though it makes no logical sense.

Yeah....thats it.....these players dont care ....hahaha. What hogwash. I swear most of you never played sports at a high level and have no idea the work these players put in. I mean how many times do you have to hear from players coming here saying the work ethic from our elite players are lights out.? But fans sit in their basement and cry over this core doesnt care enough.

You know what playoff success is? Winning the Lord Stanley. Nothing else is matters. Matchups happen teams like the Bruins who dominated in regular season can lose in the 1st rd.
Even if they lost in the 3rd round its a failure.
The had a HOF team with Chara etc for how many years? 1 cup? yr 2011...... So all the rest of the years were failures because its damn hard to win the cup.

Clark Domi Dougie Sundin Roberts etc were not hated. End of days Sundin wasn't looked upon as highly though.

 

[Da Mash]

Clark Domi Dougie Sundin Roberts etc were not hated. End of days Sundin wasn't looked upon as highly though.

Why were they not hated? Or better question is why is Marner, Mathews , Nylander and Taveres hated so much now? Because their is a cap ? And back then we didnt care or had no cluse what those players salaries were?

Sundin was later on because fans believed Fletcher and all Sundin wanted to do was retire a leaf. Sure he signed elsewhere but it shouldnt of never came to that. But fans sided with Fletcher ....who I think is still a consultant here?

 

[thewave]

Why were they not hated? Or better question is why is Marner, Mathews , Nylander and Taveres hated so much now? Because their is a cap ? And back then we didnt care or had no cluse what those players salaries were?

Sundin was later on because fans believed Fletcher and all Sundin wanted to do was retire a leaf. Sure he signed elsewhere but it shouldnt of never came to that. But fans sided with Fletcher ....who I think is still a consultant here?

I don't think they convincingly display a level of effort that makes people feel that they really want to win here. I don't think the core tries hard enough

Salary cap and overpays taint people's views on them for sure.

The Sundin thing was mishandled. It wasn't the end of the world. I didn't get pissy, some did but notany in my circles

 

[Hellcat]

Drai and Marner are the same year

Marner got the ire of the fan base because his team would send people out to always talk about how Mitch was hard done by, how he should be the captain, how he is a “center who plays on the wing” and that the day Matthews signed his agent went on a tirade.

Then he held out, his agent was talking about going to Swiss and signing offer sheets and demanding to be paid like the best goal scorer in the league as a “playmaking winger”.

He refuses to see the issues he caused and blames the fans. If he wanted to stay he could have said “I’m going to realise the issue last time and sign early” or realize he doesn’t want to stay and pick his spot.

Matthew Tkachuk was honest. Said he wanted to go. The team traded and everyone won (save the contract huby signed). JG was hated (now that changed due to his tragic passing) because he left. But this time Marner has beeen asked to sign. He won’t. He has been asked to leave abe he won’t.

He apparently won’t even talk to them. So how can you plan?

If he wanted to stay. The team offered him too little and took more money. Sure. He hasn’t even made any effort to talk. It’s nuts.

When has a player refused communication from July 1. Makes no sense. I get shutting down talks in the year. They didn’t even talk in the summer

What can he possibly learn this year that he didn’t in the last 8? You have lived your entire life here. In or out? How can you not know ?

Why is it the players responsibility to do whatever the team wants when it comes to compensation?

Why does he have to talk?

I'll bite, which issues did he cause?

 

[Hellcat]

Why were they not hated? Or better question is why is Marner, Mathews , Nylander and Taveres hated so much now? Because their is a cap ? And back then we didnt care or had no cluse what those players salaries were?

Sundin was later on because fans believed Fletcher and all Sundin wanted to do was retire a leaf. Sure he signed elsewhere but it shouldnt of never came to that. But fans sided with Fletcher ....who I think is still a consultant here?

It's a sport in Toronto to shit on Maple Leafs. In a nutshell, know nothing ignorant fans, listen to ignorant reporters and form ignorant opinions plus there is a lot of immaturity in our fan base. Then there is the you cant compete with a ghost, fans who booed Tusker, Gilmour, Vaive, Sittler forget their ignorant actions. There was plenty of that garbage back then, no internet to spread the pablum being directed towards our team now, so it seems like it was less but it as there.

 

[Ports]

Would we ask that if said 4 players didnt shit the bed every April?

Probably not but that’s been their history so I think they’ve proven it’s a failed roster construction philosophy. No team that’s won a cup has had close to that much money tied up in so few players.

 

[thewave]

Probably not but that’s been their history so I think they’ve proven it’s a failed roster construction philosophy. No team that’s won a cup has had close to that much money tied up in so few players.

And so little improvement over so many years. We didn't even have good trajectory and the office still do little to nothing.

 

[Ports]

And so little improvement over so many years. We didn't even have good trajectory and the office still do little to nothing.

Incredibly stubborn/ gutless. Just look around the league at the best organizations who win cups or have playoff success. None of them would continue to “run it back” with the same group that continually chokes come playoff time. How does Shanahan still have a job ?