Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[ToneDog]

There is an interesting comparison here with Tavares. I was living in New York during Tavares' time in Long Island and the summer he signed with the Leafs. Tavares spent that whole season saying over and over that he wanted to stay in Long Island. Repeated it in every interview he gave. He strung along that fan base in the worst way, and then pulled the rug out from under them, which is why they have reacted to him the way they have ever since (and, in my opinion, justifiably so). Marner, maybe to his credit, isn't doing that, at least right now.

Did the Canes offer them Rantanen for Tavares (LOL) ? Tavares also asked not to be traded at the TDL. Just remember how Sundin got heat for not waiving. To bad Tre did not have Burke's balls and forced Mitch to waive like he did Kaberle.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He described being treated as a god by this city, in his own words just a few months ago. If he was so upset by his treatment he was also just given a 'get out of jail' free card for the rest of the season that he turned down. Describing this situation as 'abuse' is absurd Dekes.

That was 10 months ago. And while being treated like a god has its benefits, it also comes with negatives. When people don't get what they want, people spew venom at gods. The way this fanbase treats one of the best players that has ever worn the jersey is embarrassing. That's what's absurd. That and the idea of letting him walk in UFA. Wanting to be treated fairly does not equate to wanting to leave, and it should not equate to having to.

He got paid like he was a consistent 100 point scorer off his ELC and still hasn't hit 100 points yet. He got paid more than his value so it's his turn to take something that he considers below his value now.

He got paid for what he did on his ELC, consistent with history, and he outperformed his contract. Now, he's going to sign another contract that he will likely outperform. He owes you nothing.

All you do is say losing an elite player at his age is gonna hurt us when that elite player hasn't done anything to help this team do anything.

That elite player has helped this team more than you realize. How quickly people forget how much worse it can get.

Then you always take shots at this management that's been here just under 2 years when all you do/did was praise the other management group that did nothing his entire time here.

I credit GMs when they do good things that improve my team, and criticise GMs when they do bad things that hurt my team. Letting Marner walk in UFA would be a horrific things that would hurt my team a lot.

 

[Confucius]

I credit GMs when they do good things that improve my team, and criticise GMs when they do bad things that hurt my team. Letting Marner walk in UFA would be a horrific things that would hurt my team a lot.

Overpaying for something is always worse than walking away.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Yes, the Leafs put themselves in this situation. They are at fault.

Yes, it is well within Mitch's rights to use the NTC he signed. Yes, he can and should do everything he can to get a good deal for himself and his family. Yes, he is an incredible player.



...but isn't it interesting that our players squeeze the organization for every penny? Isn't it interesting that while other teams lock down their stars long term for good value, Mitch and Auston want to max their money? Only Willy signed an 8-year, and even he held out at one point.

Despite the hard time we've given JT in the twilight of his monster contract here, I respect him for wanting to be here and, reportedly, taking a friendly deal to do so. I want players who actually want to be here.

Granted, JT basically did to the Islanders what Marner is doing to us now, so you could say it's a little karmic.

This organization is just so bewildering. These guys are some of, if not the best players to ever play for this franchise statistically and yet....it's just soulless all around.

How do we fix that?

 

[LeafEgo]

Wouldn’t Carolina leak it?

I dunno Carolina? To sow discord within the Leafs and perhaps distract from their own questionable decisions recently?

Maybe. Tulsky isn't having a great year, I'm not sure they would bother with the additional scrutiny over their own performance in recent times, and potentially damage their reputation as a trading partner in the GM circles, seems risky during such a turbulent year for them.

I guess at this point I'm thinking it was simply leaked by some random person involved that wanted to leak it for their own reasons, unconnected to the major parties. Maybe we'll learn more soon.

 

[leafsfan5]

How has Marner been running the PP from the point? Curious if my team would be one that would give a stupid offer.

He's been alright, it's led to a fair amount of chances against since it's a 5 forward unit and the PK knows they can get aggressive. With a true PP quarterback on defence he'd be on the half wall but we don't really have that

Also if Mitch goes to Boston I hope he is haunted for the rest of his life

 

[leafsfan5]

I work in management and I have to deal with the public and its freaking brutal. I feel for Marner on the emotional level I.e. fans.

However, the whole "I wanna stay" thing I have zero sympathy towards. Brother, sign a contract then. Must it be to your exact liking if you want it so badly? I'm fed up and I'd rather just part ways when we're done in a round or two. This saga is exhausting for me, can't imagine how he feels. Oh no the multi-millionaire wants an extra 250K per year or else he'll leave his townhouse. Give me a break. Just sign a reasonable rate or accept the terms that you'll need to go elsewhere if money is the be all end all

There's something really slimy about declining a move saying you don't want to leave, then not negotiating all season in the hopes you can squeeze out another 500k-1 million a year from us come July 1

He's within his rights to do it, but man does he come off as greedy. Matthews/Nylander both bent us over but they at least had quiet negotiations

 

[leafsfan5]

For sure, though that should be directed at Shanahan. They could have moved him so many times before now. Why wait? That will always be the question I’d ask. Why let it get to this point?

I'm guessing because there wasn't another elite talent to trade him for

It's exactly like the Nylander situation. Treliving looked to deal him for months and couldn't find equal value so they just re-signed him. In this case, they finally found equal value in Rantanen, the NMC just got in the way of it happening

Thanks, Dubas + Shanahan. Gave Marner literally everything he wanted on the 1st deal

 

[Legion34]

I dunno Carolina? To sow discord within the Leafs and perhaps distract from their own questionable decisions recently?

Maybe. Tulsky isn't having a great year, I'm not sure they would bother with the additional scrutiny over their own performance in recent times, and potentially damage their reputation as a trading partner in the GM circles, seems risky during such a turbulent year for them.

I guess at this point I'm thinking it was simply leaked by some random person involved that wanted to leak it for their own reasons, unconnected to the major parties. Maybe we'll learn more soon.

Well to me if Anyone leaked it. Carolina makes more sense.

We went from necas to rantanen to stankoven.

We asked for Marner but he refused to waive. Fans are probably mad they downgraded

 

[Stephen]

I work in management and I have to deal with the public and its freaking brutal. I feel for Marner on the emotional level I.e. fans.

However, the whole "I wanna stay" thing I have zero sympathy towards. Brother, sign a contract then. Must it be to your exact liking if you want it so badly? I'm fed up and I'd rather just part ways when we're done in a round or two. This saga is exhausting for me, can't imagine how he feels. Oh no the multi-millionaire wants an extra 250K per year or else he'll leave his townhouse. Give me a break. Just sign a reasonable rate or accept the terms that you'll need to go elsewhere if money is the be all end all

From the reports we've seen only, it doesn't sound like Marner is negotiating like a rational business entity in good faith.

You say you want to be in Toronto, but you want to see what is out there to use as leverage against Toronto... and you seem to need some ego stroke bonus that's going to salve all the emotional wounds being a Maple Leaf has caused.

At the end of the day, there's either a number you can be happy with in Toronto or there isn't.

 

[Stephen]

Well to me if Anyone leaked it. Carolina makes more sense.

We went from necas to rantanen to stankoven.

We asked for Marner but he refused to waive. Fans are probably mad they downgraded

If that's the case, Toronto misplayed it. If Carolina asked for Marner, Toronto should have asked Marner. As he eventually said no, say no to the deal, with no additional detail. Canes don't need to know our business.

 

[LeafEgo]

Maybe I've missed some things, but it feels like a lot of personal assumptions as to what is going on are being thrown in to come to conclusions that often involve one or more actors acting irrationally, and then skewering them for it.

Tracking only words, actions, and inactions direct from the source (no pundit tweets), Tre and Co wanted to explore trading Marner since the last playoffs ended, but that has been tricky, so for the most part they're letting the season play out to see where the dust settles.

Just a theory, but I think you'll find that it doesn't include any shockingly stupid, greedy, hypocritical, nonsensical actors involved, to make it work.

 

[LeafEgo]

Well to me if Anyone leaked it. Carolina makes more sense.

We went from necas to rantanen to stankoven.

We asked for Marner but he refused to waive. Fans are probably mad they downgraded

My best guess is that neither Carolina or Toronto leaked it with purpose.

 

[Legion34]

My best guess is that neither Carolina or Toronto leaked it with purpose.

Yes for sure. Marner could have mentioned it to a player. Who could have told CJ.

Things always get out doesn’t have to be on purpose. IF it was a leak I think Carolina would be most likely

 

[LeafEgo]

Yes for sure. Marner could have mentioned it to a player. Who could have told CJ.

Things always get out doesn’t have to be on purpose. IF it was a leak I think Carolina would be most likely

Agree with that.

I think some dude leaked it. And now Toronto is pissed. Carolina too, but less so, because maybe it actually works out ok for them.

 

[ashs]

Hate how this team has this crap lingering above them

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I want him to walk then I want us to win the cup and beat his team to the cup so we can celebrate while we rub it in his sour face

Not sure how long you've been a fan but that kind of thing doesn't happen for the Leafs, it happens to the Leafs.

 

[Mr_Fun]

Do we know for sure that Marner rejected the Leafs offer, or, is he just saying no to any deal until after the season?

 

[LaPlante94]

That was 10 months ago. And while being treated like a god has its benefits, it also comes with negatives. When people don't get what they want, people spew venom at gods. The way this fanbase treats one of the best players that has ever worn the jersey is embarrassing. That's what's absurd. That and the idea of letting him walk in UFA. Wanting to be treated fairly does not equate to wanting to leave, and it should not equate to having to.

He got paid for what he did on his ELC, consistent with history, and he outperformed his contract. Now, he's going to sign another contract that he will likely outperform. He owes you nothing.

That elite player has helped this team more than you realize. How quickly people forget how much worse it can get.

I credit GMs when they do good things that improve my team, and criticise GMs when they do bad things that hurt my team. Letting Marner walk in UFA would be a horrific things that would hurt my team a lot.

61 points, 69 points, 94 points. Ahh yes lets give him 11 million just because we paid a consistent 80 point player 11 million as a FA. Got Mac who put up 111 points in 77 games and just signed for 12.6 x 8 years and yet our guys deserve more because why? He doesn't owe me anything, but the team doesn't owe him anything anymore either.

How much worse it can get? Yeah back when we had Bozak as our #1C and Kessel as our best player. Nylander is a better player than Kessel and tbh are almost identical with how they play. Nylander drives the net more though. Now we have Matthews as our #1C and our best player and Tavares as our #2C with Nylander signed long term. Even losing Marner we still have it good compared to before.

Letting Marner walk just means after we re sign Knies that we can fill the rest of the depth forward spots with players that aren't making league minimum and won't have to rely on 3 or 4 forwards to do everything every game. So again, don't care if he stays but we shouldn't be overpaying him.

 

[arso40]

Not sure how long you've been a fan but that kind of thing doesn't happen for the Leafs, it happens to the Leafs.

30 years my friend but one can hope

 

[png57]

I don't get why it's so emphasized that Marner has ALL the leverage. Yes, he's going to be paid in the open market. But when you consider the fact that he's a hometown kid, just had a kid here, and is so well-liked within the locker room, does he truly want to leave all that behind for another team? I think there's a decent chance signing for another team and leaving Toronto will be killing him inside. Maybe Leafs management should leverage his ties to TO? Just say to him "look, do you want to stay in TO or not? If you do, stop being such a p@!n in the a$$ with our offers". It's not like he's got a great playoff track record anyway...

Marner's situation is somewhat different to Tavares's back in the day. Tavares ditched Long Island to come back home. Not exactly the same as Marner's position.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

He's been alright, it's led to a fair amount of chances against since it's a 5 forward unit and the PK knows they can get aggressive. With a true PP quarterback on defence he'd be on the half wall but we don't really have that

Also if Mitch goes to Boston I hope he is haunted for the rest of his life

I really don't think he has the balls to do that to be honest unless Boston is the only one that meets his alleged 14M/year asking price.

I live in Boston. The hockey fans here are still blue-collar at heart despite the overwhelming gentrification. They don't appreciate softness and they don't fall in love with flash if it doesn't also come with courage. They love guys like Chara, Bergeron, Marchand, pre-off-ice-clusterf*** Lucic, etc...I know Marner's extremely talented but he's just not the kind of guy that would be endlessly embraced here. They like blood, sweat and tears. The old Boston Garden was a small arena for a reason: people here like it rough (teehee.)

The venom he'd face in his hometown would be off the scale if he signed in Montreal or Boston. Off the scale.

 

[DarkKnight]

Overpaying for something is always worse than walking away.

So we aren't signing anyone this summer, because it's going to be overpay central with all the cap space out there. I predict the most outrageous over pays in years and years. This is where all the talk about Marner's cap space doesn't entertain you're going to over pay for the replacements this summer. Nobody wants to compute that, but it's a stone cold fact, unless you're going after marginal add ons.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

So we aren't signing anyone this summer, because it's going to be overpay central with all the cap space out there. I predict the most outrageous over pays in years and years. This is where all the talk about Marner's cap space doesn't entertain you're going to over pay for the replacements this summer. Nobody wants to compute that, but it's a stone cold fact, unless you're going after marginal add ons.

You are indeed correct, which is why this is such a difficult situation.

 

[notDatsyuk]

1.) no. Your premise was that rantanen was seen as worse because his team “dumped him”. By the hockey world. Marners team just tried to “dump him” the exact same way.

There is nothing to suggest why Marner wasn’t an option 2 weeks ago when they went for rantanen.

We know that
Both teams GMs tried to dump them. Carolina pursued rantanen first.
When rantanen told them no our GM offered Marner

Our gm preferred to sign Marner then give up 1 1 Cowan knies for rantanen.
We know that multiple teams wanted rantanen. We don’t know multiple teams wanted Marner.

2.) show the “actual hockey world”

3.) show any evidence or reference or correlation ever that primary assist are predictive of contracts on the level of goals. Show one quote of a gm referencing primary assists in a contract

You won't get the evidence - he's shifted to the "I already gave it" mode.