Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[ToneDog]

Playoffs dude. Who cares about Four Nations and Mem Cup. He’s paid by the Leafs to be a superstar come playoff time too and he hasn’t been.

The guy is Alex Kerfoot in the playoffs. Who pays for that after 7 years of the same rerun? Wait, don't answer that.

 

[francis246]

$13M only the starting point eh?

I always struggle to fully accept these reports. It seems like sources from the team are burying him in the media the past two days. Marner’s camp wouldn’t put that out there IMO. Plus the report says 8 years? UFA’s can get a max of 7. Unless he’s saying that’s his Toronto price.

So I’m sure the truth is somewhere in between.

 

[Ports]

He played a pivotal role in Team Canadas win and the Mem in junior hockey.

He has a track record of winning.

I know everyone likes a scapegoat but this guy is an absolute stud on all sides of the puck, and in spite of playing wing probably plays an overall impact of some of the top centers in the league.

Playoffs dude. Who cares about Four Nations and Mem Cup. He’s paid by the Leafs to be a superstar come playoff time too and he hasn’t been.

 

[mogs]

I disagree. If Marner led the Leafs to a cup there’d be a statue outside SBC. Like to see him do it although I think he’d leave anyway. The truth is he knows that they’re not winning anything and he’s playing to be the highest paid winger in the league somewhere else.

They'll build a statue if the team makes it to the third round. The bar is so low in Toronto, these guys don't even have to win a cup, just go on a run or two and pretend like they care, but they can't even do that.

 

[Legion34]

We have 27.5 million to spend on 4 forwards. More If we dump jarnk/kampf/domi.


——- Matthews. Nylander
——- —————. ————-
Mcmann. Laughton. Domi.
Jarny. Kampf. Reeves

Rielly. Carlo
McCabe Tanev
Oel. Myers
Benoit

Stolarz/ woll.

Figure max 6 for Jt
Then you have 21 for 3 forwards.
You could do Marner/knies/robertson

Or try to get like bennet/ehlers.

Plenty of options

 

[PromisedLand]

Wouldn’t surprise me to see the economy in a depression within 2 years

Depends if Canadians are capable of seeing the gaslighting by corrupt MSM and ignoring them to make the right decision...

hey we may even be able to compete against no tax states in terms of AAV LOL

 

[ToneDog]

I always struggle to fully accept these reports. It seems like sources from the team are burying him in the media the past two days. Marner’s camp wouldn’t put that out there IMO. Plus the report says 8 years? UFA’s can get a max of 7. Unless he’s saying that’s his Toronto price.

So I’m sure the truth is somewhere in between.

From the reports, I'm guessing Leafs would have given him $13m if he would take it. Only the Marner camp knows what their end game is. I sure as hell can't figure it out. He's not making any friends. I know that.

 

[Aashir]

David Pagniotta can go fck off. Every insider scoop he has provided has been so terribly wrong! When are people going to learn.

At this point if it’s not from Friedman, or maybe kypreos I just don’t believe it

Too many talking heads that say “I think” or “It seems” which is just broad speculation which turns to facts.

 

[jaric1862]

I wonder what he will move onto if Marner actually walks. Marner and Dubas gone in the span of 2 years...

Friedman and Dreger have connected us to Bennett a lot.

I'd imagine they'd re-sign Tavares too.

Probably sign another winger as well

 

[BallardEra]

 

[LaPlante94]

Congrats if he stays and goodbye if he leaves. Don't really care either way. People try and convince everybody our team will completely fall off if he leaves when it just means we can replace a lot of these league min players who don't provide much.

 

[GoonieFace]

People have such an irrational fear of losing someone who has won absolutely nothing with this team. Hopefully that changes this year, if not, we bid you adieu

It’s like no other team is sports history has lost a good player

 

[Gary Nylund]

People have such an irrational fear of losing someone who has won absolutely nothing with this team. Hopefully that changes this year, if not, we bid you adieu

It’s like no other team is sports history has lost a good player

It's amazing isn't it? EDM even won a cup after losing Gretzky. They'd won 4 cups already so of course people were upset when their best player was traded. What's going on here though? People here are panicking because they're afraid of ending this golden era of one playoff round win in 8 years? Bizarre.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Part of asking him to waive for the Rantonen trade, you'd think, would be Brad letting him know that if he wants to Montour himself to the highest bidder garbage team, we're not going to match. When he refuses at that point, he's just out and out screwing the team.

They haven't ever shown that they're not willing to match. They want to wait until 8 years in, and the second last big contract of the core to play "hard ball"? Why wouldn't Marner's camp be skeptical. I guess we're supposed to believe that NOW winning is a priority?

 

[Tony Romo]

They haven't ever shown that they're not willing to match. They want to wait until 8 years in, and the second last big contract of the core to play "hard ball"? Why wouldn't Marner's camp be skeptical. I guess we're supposed to believe that NOW winning is a priority?

I mean… to point out the obvious… it’s a new GM doing these deals.

But I’m sure you know this.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

I mean… to point out the obvious… it’s a new GM doing these deals.

But I’m sure you know this.

Matthews and Nylander were signed by Treliving. This is what he had to say about the horrible Matthews contract that officially sealed shut the Leafs Stanley Cup window in this era.

How Matthews, Maple Leafs settled on deal: ‘He could demand a whole lot more’

Relatively short term with a massive chunk of the salary in tow, how did Auston Matthews and the Maple Leafs settle on a deal that alleviated one of the bigger questions facing the team this offseason?

www.sportsnet.ca

Meanwhile the actual best players in the world sign for 8 years and lower cap hits. "This got done because Auston decided"


Pastrnak scored 61 goals, 113 points, and led his team to the best record ever but somehow Nylander is worth more money? Treliving, Shanahan and MLSE say yes. But now we're changing things up because the team isn't good enough? Sure, pal.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Why wouldnt u want rantanen ?plus he wasnt asking for more money than hes worth
Looks to me the leafs are looking for a more balanced team and maybe paying a player like makar or luke hughs 14 million

I don’t know. Why wouldn't you want Rantanen?

I don't understand your comment. I'm talking about Marner. Treliving tried to trade Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just for clarity can you post the evidence of that?

The evidence is the fact that contract history through the cap era correlates much better with recent primary point production than recent goal production. It would also be pretty naive to believe that for decades, GMs have ignored the on-ice value of primary assists relative to goals, and left giant market inefficiencies.

Where is the evidence that goals are higher compensated than primary assists?

Your premise was that rantanen was seen as worse because his team “dumped him”.

That is incorrect. The premise was that Rantanen was seen as worse because he is worse, and the only evidence we have supports that league perception. Colorado dumping him like that after winning a cup with him is not a good indication of being highly valued.

Marners team just tried to “dump him” the exact same way.

That is incorrect. Toronto never tried to dump Marner. Their preference has always been keeping him.

There is nothing to suggest why Marner wasn’t an option 2 weeks ago when they went for rantanen.

That is incorrect. There are multiple reasons why he wasn't an option. Toronto didn't want to trade him. Marner had a NMC. And two weeks ago, Carolina was looking for somebody they could re-sign in season, and Marner wasn't interested in signing mid season. Once re-signing wasn't in the cards anyway, they preferred Marner.

When rantanen told them no our GM offered Marner

That is incorrect. Our GM didn't offer Marner. Carolina wanted Marner. Our GM also preferred Marner unless we knew he wasn't going to re-sign, and Rantanen would.

We know that multiple teams wanted rantanen. We don’t know multiple teams wanted Marner.

We know that multiple teams preferred Marner. He wasn't available.

show any evidence or reference or correlation ever that primary assist are predictive of contracts on the level of goals.

You get answers, ignore them, and then continue making demands. Where is your evidence that goals are more valuable than primary assists?

 

[Leaf Fans]

And the cup winner on that team is Matthew t we haven’t gotten out of the first round more than once and a lot of our failures marners been at the forefront unable to perform under the pressure

The team has not hood enough.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Are you that naive ? You don’t think Kypreos’ narrative that Marner is looking beyond just money is coming from Marner’s camp & that he feels there is too much finger pointing at him for this organization’s failures. He’s basically telling everyone I want the money & I want zero criticism from fans & media otherwise I’m gone. He & his agent are from Toronto, they know the markets insecurities and are going to exploit it for their benefit just like last time. The fact this got out tells me clearly that the front office is frustrated with negotiations & things are not going well with Marner’s reps.

I haven't mmentioned any of Marner's desires with the exception of the one he stated. It had nothing to with nieavity. You have no idea it is factual or not. It is certainly possible that things are not going well. I have not disputed that claim.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Imagine you are the Marner family. You are going to sign a potential 7 year deal worth $100 million. About to have a baby and start a family

You can do it in Tampa or Florida with lower taxes, better weather and far less stress from the media/fans.

Your parents and extended family will be down there often during the season to enjoy the weather and they start a life there and put down roots.

The worst will be when Nylander and Matthews see him win before they do. Matthews leaves in 4 more years and the rebuild starts.

Thanks to Brad and the raging fan base all prospects and draft picks are depleted or traded for one more shot. Look at our current prospect pool. It’s a joke.

I love how hockey fans paint Florida as some kind of refuge from bad things and bad people. Why do you cheer for Toronto if your fantasy is to see them always fall down? Please listen to me when I say that cynicism is not wisdom.

 

[leafan11]

Treliving comes off pretty stupid saying they think the world of Mitch and want him here a long time. Why ask him to waive his no trade then ? Leafs need to come out and say what they’ve offered Mitch. Make him squirm

 

[Legion34]

The evidence is the fact that contract history through the cap era correlates much better with recent primary point production than recent goal production. It would also be pretty naive to believe that for decades, GMs have ignored the on-ice value of primary assists relative to goals, and left giant market inefficiencies.

Where is the evidence that goals are higher compensated than primary assists?

That is incorrect. The premise was that Rantanen was seen as worse because he is worse, and the only evidence we have supports that league perception. Colorado dumping him like that after winning a cup with him is not a good indication of being highly valued.

That is incorrect. Toronto never tried to dump Marner. Their preference has always been keeping him.

That is incorrect. There are multiple reasons why he wasn't an option. Toronto didn't want to trade him. Marner had a NMC. And two weeks ago, Carolina was looking for somebody they could re-sign in season, and Marner wasn't interested in signing mid season. Once re-signing wasn't in the cards anyway, they preferred Marner.

That is incorrect. Our GM didn't offer Marner. Carolina wanted Marner. Our GM also preferred Marner unless we knew he wasn't going to re-sign, and Rantanen would.

We know that multiple teams preferred Marner. He wasn't available.

You get answers, ignore them, and then continue making demands. Where is your evidence that goals are more valuable than primary assists?

1.) speaking to ulfs points you keep conflating “primary points” your completely made up combination of goals and first assists and then first assists.

Of course goals and assists are going to be more predictive than just goals. A person will get paid more if he has 20’goas and 80 assists vs 20’goals and 40’assists. The issues is that “primary assists” are not worth more than goals.

Here.

Entry Level Performance Bonuses | Puckpedia

Entry Level Contracts are eligible for Performance Bonuses. There are two categories of Performance Bonuses: "A" Level Bonuses "A" Bonuses are worth $212,500 each, to a maximum of $850,000 (maximum 4 achieved). For players signed starting in 2022, "A" bonuses are worth $250,000 each, to a...

puckpedia.com

Schedule A performance bonuses.

20’goals

35 assists.
60 points.

NOT
20 primary assists.
NOT your fake primary points category

It’s clear. The NHl values goals at 1.75 assists. The NHL does NOT differentiate between primary and secondary assists in contracts.

The NHL does not give performances based on primary assists. 34 primary assists is worth nothing. 35 secondary assists is a bonus

You could get 60’secondary assists ZERO primary points and get 2 bonuses.

You could have 19 goals 34 primary assists and get zero bonuses.

it’s standardized in the CBA

this Will be embarrassing enough that wt don’t even have to get into your trade delusions.

Just admit you are wrong and move on

 

[stickty111]

This team continues to cater to Marner's feelings. They did it again by Brad speaking.

 

[francis246]

That's all well and good but if he is truly not committed to this team, do a Tkachuk and allow the team to get a return.

It’s not the same situation. Matthew Tkachuk was an RFA who was still 2 years away from UFA. Tkachuk’s only option was to ask for a trade to get out. Marner has the option to walk away for free. Make no mistake, Matthew didn’t help out the Flames, he still fcked them over.