Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[leafsfan5]

I thought Rantanen didn't want to commit to the 12x8 here. He chose Dallas

I believe he was fine with signing with both teams. He liked Dallas, Toronto and Florida. Though for the record, we would be offering him 13-13.75 x 8 based on what Kypreos said

Leafs chose to not give Knies up, though. They gave the Cowan package instead

 

[Legion34]

I did, and there's no evidence of the opposite. Actually, what you're pointing at is just further support. The reports were actually that Carolina wanted to trade Rantanen for Marner, and that Toronto also preferred to keep Marner but relayed Carolina's request in case Marner didn't feel like there was a path forward here.

This seems to be a cycle of answering you, only to have you not listen, and repeat the same demands for things that you've already been given and won't provide yourself. I'm choosing to believe what the historical data says about what GMs do, that keeps being proven true. You can choose to believe whatever you want.

No, that's not what I suggested at all.

Nope
1.) we know that Carolina wanted rantanen. We know that they traded for him. We know that they offered him over 100 million to stay. He told them no.

Then and only then when he said he won’t sign he was made available. when the leafs asked for rantanen they asked for marner.

We also know that yes the leafs told Mitch they wanted to sign him. But if he didn’t want to they could trade him to Carolina. When he said no. They still wanted rantanen. So they were comfortable giving up assets to sign rantanen even with Mitch here.

We have no proof that Dallas and all these other teams wanted Marner. We know that multiple teams wanted rantanen first.

2.) you have never provided a single example or quote. Ever you just decided that teams make up a primary points category and that it is used to drive negotiations. When you can provide zero evidence ever that it has been used in arbitration. Or contracts.

3.) simple then.

80 goals 20 primary assists
20 goals. 80 primary assists

Who is worth more based on those metrics?

 

[thewave]

I believe he was fine with signing with both teams. He liked Dallas, Toronto and Florida. Though for the record, we would be offering him 13-13.75 x 8 based on what Kypreos said

Leafs chose to not give Knies up, though. They gave the Cowan package instead

I am betting on Knies as well. I like Rantanen but I am still betting on Knies. Marner should have been a good sport if he loves this team and waived.

 

[Apex Predator]

Nope
1.) we know that Carolina wanted rantanen. We know that they traded for him. We know that they offered him over 100 million to stay. He told them no.

Then and only then when he said he won’t sign he was made available. when the leafs asked for rantanen they asked for marner.

We also know that yes the leafs told Mitch they wanted to sign him. But if he didn’t want to they could trade him to Carolina. When he said no. They still wanted rantanen. So they were comfortable giving up assets to sign rantanen even with Mitch here.

We have no proof that Dallas and all these other teams wanted Marner. We know that multiple teams wanted rantanen first.

2.) you have never provided a single example or quote. Ever you just decided that teams make up a primary points category and that it is used to drive negotiations. When you can provide zero evidence ever that it has been used in arbitration. Or contracts.

3.) simple then.

80 goals 20 primary assists
20 goals. 80 primary assists

Who is worth more based on those metrics?

Good on you for dealing with Dekes. I don’t have it in me anymore to deal with someone who is trolling for attention or delusional that they can’t admit when they are wrong.

 

[arso40]

I want everyone to see what you did here.

You changed 5v5 goal differential numbers to ES points. I like your content here and am not trying to be
mean (im sure youll get over it lol) but this is a pure example of realizing you are wrong, avoiding the actual topic with a whatabout and looking a little silly to any neutral observer while hoping to get cheap likes from the cult in here. ES points are not 5v5, do not take D into account and have literally nothing to do with what I said.

Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.04
Goals against/60: 2.61

Marner 5v5:
Goals for/60: 3.08
Goals against/60: 1.72

Who has been a better player 5v5 in the playoffs the last 3 years?

It's not that hard a question really. If you are having as hard time with it, take a breather man.

Rantanen played with mac but he also ran his own line after kadri left marner is glued to Matthews context matters as the marnernites always say

 

[Skullz]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he did walk. Can't think of another superstar that's put up with so much undeserved nonsense from their team and fanbase.

It's really disappointing how much this management team has screwed this up, and how toxic this fanbase is, and now it seems like our future largely depends on whether Marner loves the Leafs enough to continue enduring the abuse and disrespect. Hopefully he does...

I don’t agree with this, but I’d like to hear your logic.

How has management screwed this up, and would you have have handled it differently?

Secondly, how is criticism of Marner been colossally unfair? Has it been over the top at times? Sure. In large part that is due to the way that his camp has positioned themselves in the media, and the lack of playoff success. That is not shocking to anyone.

 

[Peasy]

Good on you for dealing with Dekes. I don’t have it in me anymore to deal with someone who is trolling for attention or delusional that they can’t admit when they are wrong.

I wonder what he will move onto if Marner actually walks. Marner and Dubas gone in the span of 2 years...

 

[Peasy]

I don’t agree with this, but I’d like to hear your logic.

How has management screwed this up, and would you have have handled it differently?

Secondly, how is criticism of Marner been colossally unfair? Has it been over the top at times? Sure. In large part that is due to the way that his camp has positioned themselves in the media, and the lack of playoff success. That is not shocking to anyone.

Bros acting like Marner is the only Leaf to ever get hate/criticism and that it never happens in other fanbases or let alone another sport

 

[ToneDog]

It's 100% the right move and should've been done. The only reason they likely didn't is because they think it means Marner would leave, so they lose Knies + Marner to sign Rantanen

If there was a good chance I could keep both Rantanen + Marner I'd flip Knies+++ for Mikko easily. Let Tavares walk and build around Rantanen/Marner/Matthews/Nylander

Knies is a great player but a player of Mikko's talent is someone you have to go for

If you believe Bunkis he says, they could never make it work. He said he is going to discuss the numbers on tomorrow's podcast.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm okay that marner isn't committed to the Leafs.

He's a human and in many countries human's determine where they want to live and work.
Who can't support that?

If he can improve his lot in life moving to another team he has my support.
Happiness matters.

 

[thewave]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he did walk. Can't think of another superstar that's put up with so much undeserved nonsense from their team and fanbase.

It's really disappointing how much this management team has screwed this up, and how toxic this fanbase is, and now it seems like our future largely depends on whether Marner loves the Leafs enough to continue enduring the abuse and disrespect. Hopefully he does...

Marner is the best victim we have ever had on salary..he is far beyond all the others. You do your best to fight fight fight for Marner, he should reward you or Ferris should hire you to help negotiate.

 

[Dekes For Days]

we know that Carolina wanted rantanen. We know that they traded for him. We know that they offered him over 100 million to stay. He told them no. Then and only then when he said he won’t sign he was made available. when the leafs asked for rantanen they asked for marner.

We also know that yes the leafs told Mitch they wanted to sign him. But if he didn’t want to they could trade him to Carolina. When he said no. They still wanted rantanen. So they were comfortable giving up assets to sign rantanen even with Mitch here. We have no proof that Dallas and all these other teams wanted Marner. We know that multiple teams wanted rantanen first.

Those teams wanted Rantanen because he was the only one available. That is not choosing him over Marner. When it was a choice between Rantanen or Marner, both Carolina and Toronto reportedly preferred Marner.

you have never provided a single example or quote.

You just don't listen.

80 goals 20 primary assists
20 goals. 80 primary assists
Who is worth more based on those metrics?

If they did it consistently, and everything else was equal, they'd be worth the same.

 

[GoonieFace]

I want everyone to see what you did here.

You changed 5v5 goal differential numbers to ES points. I like your content here and am not trying to be
mean (im sure youll get over it lol) but this is a pure example of realizing you are wrong, avoiding the actual topic with a whatabout and looking a little silly to any neutral observer while hoping to get cheap likes from the cult in here. ES points are not 5v5, do not take D into account and have literally nothing to do with what I said.

Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.04
Goals against/60: 2.61

Marner 5v5:
Goals for/60: 3.08
Goals against/60: 1.72

Who has been a better player 5v5 in the playoffs the last 3 years?

It's not that hard a question really. If you are having as hard time with it, take a breather man.

Rantanen has been the better playoff player over the past 3 years and throughout his career. But I liked that you picked the past 3 years. I couldn’t care less what stat you just posted there and if it’s even real, but Rantanen has scored as many goals as Mitch in his last 18 games than Mitch in his entire career.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner has failed in Toronto, totally and utterly. Now he wants to be paid like McDrai when he plays more like Clarke MacArthur come playoff time, his total career is relevant.

ALL of the core could immediately ingratiate themselves with the fans if they just took a paycut and were realistic about their limitations as players. They refuse to do that because they are greedy.

Winners earn their pay checks, but these guys are not only greedy, but they are soft greedy losers. The worst combination.

Fans can handle greedy winners. Greedy losers who refuse to sacrifice on and off the ice, not so much.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Funny Tre will have walked two superstar wingers to free agency.

Can't wait to see the albatross deals he hands out in an effort to save his ass for trading away our firsts. We will try to "retool" and end up with 4 more Domi's

Either way we won't win anything, so it's probably moot.

 

[ToneDog]

Good on you for dealing with Dekes. I don’t have it in me anymore to deal with someone who is trolling for attention or delusional that they can’t admit when they are wrong.

If everybody ignored him, he might go away to the Pens board. God knows Dubas needs him bad.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Why not? He’s the big fish this summer and they will be on it

Because they want winners and compete players to which Marner is neither

 

[AvroArrow]

What did he do this time? Not waive because you wanted him to?

Say he wants to be a Leaf but refuse to engage in extension discussions and say he wants to wait until he's a free agent

Not that difficult to understand. If you want to stay, why not at least be open to listening to extension offers/discussions

Personally I don't think we should even be re-signing him mid-season anyways

But it does show where his loyalties lie

 

[Legion34]

We had Babcock way back in the day getting this kid to write lists that could compromise his relationship with teammates. Also had Lou withholding max bonuses on him too.

The previous oldheads of the organization even targeted this kid to a degree. Where there's smoke there's fire.

Because he came in and thought he was a brand and started selling leafs merch without team permission. His camp was a problem from day 1

 

[Legion34]

I'm okay that marner isn't committed to the Leafs.

He's a human and in many countries human's determine where they want to live and work.
Who can't support that?

If he can improve his lot in life moving to another team he has my support.
Happiness matters.

Sure. But if you aren’t happy here. Why enforce a clause to stay for 2 years. At that point it’s on you.

 

[Legion34]

Those teams wanted Rantanen because he was the only one available. That is not choosing him over Marner. When it was a choice between Rantanen or Marner, both Carolina and Toronto reportedly preferred Marner.

You just don't listen.

If they did it consistently, and everything else was equal, they'd be worth the same.

1.) Carolina inquired about Marner AFTER they already traded for rantanen. Offered him money and it became clear he wouldn’t sign.

If you believe Kypreos. Toronto was ready to offer 105-110 for rantanen.

2.) you have not provided a single piece of evidence. If you did you would post it. You can copy paste. It would take 5 minutes.

3.) you have no proof that agents/gma value assists the same as goals.

 

[ULF_55]

Sure. But if you aren’t happy here. Why enforce a clause to stay for 2 years. At that point it’s on you.

He's UFA in a few months.

He gets to make his own decision then.

 

[notbias]

So "conversational English" and "English" are two different things for you, LOL OK then bud.

I dunno who you talk to but the people I converse with just say what they mean. If your grasp of the English language is sufficient then you should try it some time.

Saying "LOL" or writing "dunno" instead of "don't know" while arguing if "English" and "Conversational English" are different things is funny.

 

[likecheese]

I'm okay that marner isn't committed to the Leafs.

He's a human and in many countries human's determine where they want to live and work.
Who can't support that?

If he can improve his lot in life moving to another team he has my support.
Happiness matters.

That's all well and good but if he is truly not committed to this team, do a Tkachuk and allow the team to get a return.

 

[Da Mash]

I love it

Was hearing all year how the brass can force Marner to be traded and guess what?

He holds all the cards like he should on that agreed contract. The same NMC Tre gave Willy and 34.

He wants to be a leaf and told the brass that. Now it will come down to the final days for the leafs to make the offer to keep him or let him walk.

His agent knows the market value of marner and knows teams will pay.

Happy for Marner and he absolutely owns the leafs nothing.

Our all time pts leader and one of our greatest leafs in Sundin got so disrespected when he was in a similar position and fans treated him terrible because he didn’t agree to a trade. Fletcher went thru the media to make Sundin a bad guy and a lot of leaf fans ate it up as gospel

And in reality Sundin should of been resigned and retired a leaf

Now this is a bit different as Marner isn’t at the end of his career but I would love to see the leafs resign him to a max contract.

Will be exciting to see how these playoffs play out.