Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Gary Nylund]

To be fair, he has probably been coddled his whole life and doesn’t really have real world experience. Always been told how great he is etc. He’s also probably not the brightest guy either. It’s probably in his best interest to move on.

It certainly seems that way - coddled, not too bright etc. As far as his best interest, who knows? He loves it here, it's his home town etc. so seems like he'd probably be quite happy to stay right where he is. It sounds like he's trying to squeeze the org for every last penny he can get before signing and not gonna lie, that rubs me the wrong way. He's been really bad after 86 games, he should know that if he's offered 12/13 million then that's massive and more than he deserves so don't be a greedy pig and just take it.

I just wish people in this board can separate not liking the style of player he is to being a hater. That play he made at the blue line was why he is so polarizing. Scores 2 nice goals on simple plays, but can’t help himself from doing stupid things. He tries to make that play several times a game, and usually gets away with it.

That's true and that's the problem - he always plays the same way and once everyone settles into playoff style hockey, that fancy shit he always does works much less often and his effectiveness takes a massive hit.

When will he ever learn? That was a rhetorical question BTW, if he hasn't learned by now then hard to see him ever learning.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The more and more I read into this the more and more I see this is completely a him issue.

You think Nylander would ever let this kind of shit bother him?

No, never. Nothing ever seems to bother Willie.

 

[Gary Nylund]

you can argue on who is the most talented, who you like the most. But Nylander is undoubtedly the one best built for this market.

Also Nylander got f***ing killed for a while until it shifted to Marner

FYP.

 

[francis246]

The more and more I read into this the more and more I see this is completely a him issue.

You think Nylander would ever let this kind of shit bother him?

I think Marner has some mental issues he is probably working through. I think people also forget he was robbed in this city at gun point. I think that also plays into his defensiveness as a person. That’s a traumatic experience and probably still affects him. It seems from an outsiders perspective he has this me vs the world mindset and I firmly believe that experience may have even reaffirmed those beliefs in his head. Probably does not trust a lot of people besides his close circle.

Then you add on things people say about his dad. It makes sense. But again I don’t know him personally, so I’m just spitballing.

Also everyone in life is different, Nylander also benefits from having his entire family and life around pro hockey. He’s seen it all and has been taught from his dad how to deal with this stuff. Nylander was born into money. You can’t even compare the two.

 

[leafan11]

The Leafs need to present their best offer and tell him if you want to test Free Agency fine, but our offer expires the second you go to Free Agency.

 

[ToneDog]

This whole Rantanen/Marner thing is fascinating really.

First Colorado trades Rantanen instead of resigning him showing they would rather break ties than continue on was a pretty big shock. Teams dont generally do that and they have been largely proven right in a short period of time which is crazy. Why would they do that? Im guessing Rantanen was asking for a far bigger number than 12 and the whispers of Rantanens awful numbers away from Mac forced the Avs hand and targeting a player like Necas now looks like the genius trade of the year.

Why did Carolina trade for Rantanen? Because they wanted to sign him and use him for their playoff run of course. The fact he managed to sour that relationship so quickly with a combination of poor play and who knows what behind the scenes and they wanted to cut bait after 13 games makes it one of the craziest trades I've ever scene. The whole thing looks toxic and Rantanens stock fell huge after this. The fact he still got 12 on a good team when he looks like such a huge risk is not a bad end game through all this for him.

The fact Carolina wanted Marner over him shouldnt be a shock. The 4 nations was brilliant and Marner was a huge factor while Rantanen was just another good player. Marner and Stolarz have been the Leaf MVPs this season and watching the game last night, the gap between elite players and non-elite players was evident and Marner was the best Leaf on the ice. A huge factor on both sides of the puck and in all situations. Marner on Carolina would be a massive get for them and I'm a little shocked our managment would have even asked him. No Marner on the Leafs this year would have us struggling to even make the playoffs IMO.

He might be on the way out, he might not but the way he gets treated around here, I wouldnt really blame him. This town is just dying to run him out of town and watch him win a cup somewhere else. Its a Leafs tradition no? Murphy, Kessel, Kadri....Marner? I always find it hilarious that a sold majority wanted those guys gone and its impossible to find anyone who will own up to it years later.

LOL Reach much? They wanted to save face and get something back for him rather facing the wrath if he walked for nothing. Getting Marner for him would have saved them further embarassement. By your thinking, they preferred Stankoven over Rantanen.

 

[thewave]

The Leafs need to present their best offer and tell him if you want to test Free Agency fine, but our offer expires the second you go to Free Agency.

Too late for that now. Shanahan should already be fired. Organization is dumb

 

[Leaf Fans]

See I don’t mind him “not wanting to go to carolina”. Ok no problem.

But he has to know where he does want to go right? 9 years. You don’t have any idea? You don’t talk about it in the summer? Come on.

If he wants to walk. My bet is LA. But who knows.

Why not get clarke/fiala. Move on in the summer. Instead of having a baby and moving across the world.

Makes zero sense.

He wants to stay in Toronto.

 

[thewave]

He wants to stay in Toronto.

For the absolute max money he can get even if it cripples the team. It's called wanting cake and eating it too. The guys just a selfish person, McDavid took a discount already. This little weasel has given nothing back. I hope MLSE slam his reputation in negotiations in the mud so bad he has nightmares because that is what he is, spoiled brat and nightmare.

It's dumb to keep him

 

[ToneDog]

It certainly seems that way - coddled, not too bright etc. As far as his best interest, who knows? He loves it here, it's his home town etc. so seems like he'd probably be quite happy to stay right where he is. It sounds like he's trying to squeeze the org for every last penny he can get before signing and not gonna lie, that rubs me the wrong way. He's been really bad after 86 games, he should know that if he's offered 12/13 million then that's massive and more than he deserves so don't be a greedy pig and just take it.

That's true and that's the problem - he always plays the same way and once everyone settles into playoff style hockey, that fancy shit he always does works much less often and his effectiveness takes a massive hit.

When will he ever learn? That was a rhetorical question BTW, if he hasn't learned by now then hard to see him ever learning.

Love for money > Love for city and team. Just tell him, we are not resigning you. Have a nice life.

 

[thewave]

Love for money > Love for city and team. Just tell him, we are not resigning you. Have a nice life.

Exactly right. He wants it all. Believes he is better then McDavid. Last night he probably thinks he was equal to Mack. I am convinced he is that high up on himself.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Marner is having such a good year because he is finally free. He does not fear the springtime for the first time in a decade because he can literally light a match and walk away. He doesn't need to answer questions about it anymore.

Play as best as he can, who cares if we lose. He gets to go to a nice quiet market with his already 100M career earnings and get a massive deal like Johnny Gaudreau did in a quiet market where a lot of people don't even know your name.

Makes so much sense. My question is what this does to the team. Obviously management felt the need to not pick until 2030 because this was our year with Mitch to go for it. When we are an easy out round 1 again and Marner leaves, what then?

The org is heading down a very dark path again. So much hope and potential when we started the rebuild. Sad.

 

[All Mod Cons]

you can argue on who is the most talented, who you like the most. But Nylander is probably the one best built for this market.

Also Nylander got f***ing killed for a while until it shifted to Marner

He still does. He's been called lazy his whole NHL career.

 

[ToneDog]

For the absolute max money he can get even if it cripples the team. It's called wanting cake and eating it too. The guys just a selfish person, McDavid took a discount already. This little weasel has given nothing back. I hope MLSE slam his reputation in negotiations in the mud so bad he has nightmares because that is what he is, spoiled brat and nightmare.

It's dumb to keep him

If he has seriously rejected $13m, I'd tell him and his camp we are moving on. Pulling this shit a second time after one series win should not be acceptable to this organization. Show some f***ing backbone and tell this guy and his camp to go f*** themselves.

 

[Zybalto]

This is really good fiction writing, kudos!

Because a couple of games on an all-star team is more meaningful than career playoff performance spanning many years where Rantanen makes Marner look useless by comparison. Yeah sure thing, that makes sense.


It's hilarious that a couple of you fanboys keep spewing this nonsense. The town for the most part adores him and he only recently talked about how he's treated like a god here, in the hockey capital of the world.

Keep that fiction coming dude, I'm doing a bit of work this morning and some comic entertainment is always welcome.

I'm not a fanboy, I can just walk and chew gum at the same time. Spinning the 4 nations as an "all star game" is peak trolling. The most intense hockey I've seen in years and Marner is in on the 3 biggest goals for Canada is a good sign for the playoffs no? I want this team to win.....and I engage in more than a few Marner conversations out there and, yea, people dont give him much respect although after the 4 nations, I felt a mood shift. Certainly helps your PR when so many are slagging on you for not being " the guy" and then you go out on the biggest stage and do it. If that was the Leafs in the gold medal game, Bennett and McDavid would have missed the net and everyone would blame Marner when they lost for not "producing" lol.

In the end, I just come from a different side of things than you. We both hate Dubas but for different reasons. I think poor depth selection and goaltending were the driving issues and you think Marner was a bigger problem. I mean, McDavid and Drai were still top 10 players in the world when they wernt making the playoffs or getting swept in the first round right? It's a team sport man. The same stupid arguments from fans back then for years are being applied here and its just as stupid IMO.

 

[Legion34]

He wants to stay in Toronto.

Ok. Maybe I’m misreading this. So what is your theory.

He refuses to negotiate. All the insiders are saying he is walking to ufa.

But he’s staying? I’m based it in on seravalli, CJ, EF all saying he wants to go to market.

Mirtle said the leafs are frustrated because they are making offers and no response.

All the insiders are saying he is going to market. Why do you think he is staying?

Edit. Although I guess EF said last night he said he wants to sign. But also then he back tracked. So it’s confusing

 

[ToneDog]

Exactly right. He wants it all. Believes he is better then McDavid. Last night he probably thinks he was equal to Mack. I am convinced he is that high up on himself.

I think it is the shambles in his brain. Turning down $13m from the team that you say you want to stay with is strange. What exactly does this guy want that the Leafs refuse to give him?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marner is having such a good year because he is finally free. He does not fear the springtime for the first time in a decade because he can literally light a match and walk away. He doesn't need to answer questions about it anymore.

Play as best as he can, who cares if we lose. He gets to go to a nice quiet market with his already 100M career earnings and get a massive deal like Johnny Gaudreau did in a quiet market where a lot of people don't even know your name.

Makes so much sense. My question is what this does to the team. Obviously management felt the need to not pick until 2030 because this was our year with Mitch to go for it. When we are an easy out round 1 again and Marner leaves, what then?

The org is heading down a very dark path again. So much hope and potential when we started the rebuild. Sad.

It has been heading down a dark path ever since it saw the light at the end of the tunnel. At no point did this organization have it's ducks in a row.

They ruined a good situation as soon as it arrived.

 

[thewave]

It has been heading down a dark path ever since it saw the light at the end of the tunnel. At no point did this organization have it's ducks in a row.

They ruined a good situation as soon as it arrived.

Exactly. Self sabotaged by Shanahan and Dubas.

 

[thewave]

I think it is the shambles in his brain. Turning down $13m from the team that you say you want to stay with is strange. What exactly does this guy want that the Leafs refuse to give him?

He wants more. Just more

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not a fanboy, I can just walk and chew gum at the same time. Spinning the 4 nations as an "all star game" is peak trolling. The most intense hockey I've seen in years and Marner is in on the 3 biggest goals for Canada is a good sign for the playoffs no? I want this team to win.....and I engage in more than a few Marner conversations out there and, yea, people dont give him much respect although after the 4 nations, I felt a mood shift. Certainly helps your PR when so many are slagging on you for not being " the guy" and then you go out on the biggest stage and do it. If that was the Leafs in the gold medal game, Bennett and McDavid would have missed the net and everyone would blame Marner when they lost for not "producing" lol.

In the end, I just come from a different side of things than you. We both hate Dubas but for different reasons. I think poor depth selection and goaltending were the driving issues and you think Marner was a bigger problem. I mean, McDavid and Drai were still top 10 players in the world when they wernt making the playoffs or getting swept in the first round right? It's a team sport man. The same stupid arguments from fans back then for years are being applied here and its just as stupid IMO.

IMHO what I've seen from Marner in the playoffs over the last 8 years carries a lot more weight than his play in a couple of games on this all star team. I'd even go so far as to say that this should be obvious to anyone, and thinking that a couple of games with an all star team is enough to show that he's a different player now is pure insanity.

I'm not spinning anything here but since you seem to have missed the point, I'll spell it out for you. On this all star team, he's just one player among many and there is no more pressure on him than anyone else, in fact there's less pressure on him than there is on the best players like McDavid and Mackinnon. On the Leafs, he's one of the big stars, he's supposed to be a leader and play like he's the second best player on the team. To put it simply, there's pressure on him in that situation, the kind of pressure that didn't exist on that all star team and he has a history of folding under that pressure.

Superstar from games 1-86, then he becomes a middle 6 forward, that's what the last 8 years have shown us, Maybe this spring will be different but it doesn't seem likely and until he shows the world he's changed, expecting anything different is idiotic.

 

[Confucius]

They gave him the NMC and he used it. Get mad at the team, their ineptitude stopped them from getting Rantanen. But more importantly, their ineptitude stopped US from getting a good team.

Place your bets, does the team do it again. Lmao

 

[thusk]

I would say #3 was possible up until yesterday. The leafs leaking they asked him if he would go to Carolina may have allowed them to win the PR battle but I think it may have been the nail in the coffin. I just don’t understand why they would put that out there, if they wanted to sign him. I think it fractures the relationship. Don’t see a comeback from this personally.. man looked distraught after the game

Not really, you've fot an unsigned player you don't want to lose for nothing and you're don't know exactly his plan... I don't know where it's should be bad to sit there with the player about the situation and just be honest with him.

It's the situation
1- We want to sign you
2- we don't know what is your plan
3- We've got that offer from Carolina we should consider if your decision is to go somewhere else, you having an oppotunity here to make it happen.

Everything had been done right

 

[ToneDog]

He wants more. Just more

Makes him so much more loveable to the fans that already can't stand him.

 

[Zybalto]

LOL Reach much? They wanted to save face and get something back for him rather facing the wrath if he walked for nothing. Getting Marner for him would have saved them further embarassement. By your thinking, they preferred Stankoven over Rantanen.

Err, yes. They preferred the Stakoven package over ever dealing with Rantanen again. Might just be a fit issue but Rantanen was brutal with them. 2 goals, 6 points in 13 games for winger who isnt all that great defensively? 'Hell, Marner has 5 goals and 8 points in his last 6 games. Carolina traded for him to be a key piece of their team moving forward and he crashed out hard and put himself in a tight spot. It was both Carolina and Rantanen who share the embarassement. I don't think Marner (who has a history of working well with pretty much anyone and not just the league MVP) would walk away with egg on his face the same way Rantanen did. Forget the "Marner PR" stuff, the Rantanen PR machine is in full swing as a guy claiming to be worth 14+ gets cast off by 2 teams in one season (the only superstar ever really), ends up signing for 12 (in Texas mind you) and then has people sticking up for him somehow. I'm actually glad he found a home on a great team as I was kinda feeling for the guy. Had to bruise the ego a bit there.