Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Nineteen67]

He played a pivotal role in Team Canadas win and the Mem in junior hockey.

He has a track record of winning.

I know everyone likes a scapegoat but this guy is an absolute stud on all sides of the puck, and in spite of playing wing probably plays an overall impact of some of the top centers in the league.

The fact that he’s won before and played a pivotal role in those wins is the reason I’d lean to keeping him over the other two if they’re rebuilding/ retooling next year. Of course it all depends on how he performs in the playoffs this year.

 

[Legion34]

You can tell the pressure is clearly getting to him man. He probably loves it here, it’s not a nice feeling when eve try one wants you gone but you want to win here. I feel bad but he and his agent created this for themselves. It’s shitty to see cause at the end of the day Marner is still a human, seems like a nice guy, just played his cards wrong the last time around. Will not be surprised if he leaves now.

I guess I just don’t understand why he didn’t recognize what happened last time and make a decision

1.) this is too much for me. I want out. Let’s do it in the summer. So I don’t come back to a circus.

I’m actually shocked at how little there has been. This pressure should have been applied the whole time

2.) I want to stay. I know that my agent caused issues last Time. I am staying with my agent because he is family, but we need to do this right. Sign in the summer.
Take my slightly more than Willy x8 and become the highest scoring player in leafs history. Get my statue and hopefully my cup.

Why he is doing the “wait to get the most possible money” thing is insane. He does it to himself. It’s not like Willy and Matty didn’t get paid.

Why do it like this?

 

[francis246]

Yeah I’m a Marner PR crew as an HFboards member that signed up when he was in Tyke hockey.

Wipe the foam off your mouth, ash whatever it was you just inhaled, drink some water, read what you just wrote and then try again.

It’s incredible how much the best player on the team can upset you so much.

Maybe re-evaluate your overall life and fandom towards the Leafs?

You used to fight me on Dubas, and you did a full 180 on that after I was proven 100% correct on that.

I would take a seat again, listen, and stop talking as you should have then also.

I miss the old days of this board. Back in 07/08/09 this board was great. Great discussions, solid people. I remember people used to do ticket give aways on here, meet ups and everything, was legit a solid community. Post Bruins loss in 2013, this place became a hell hole man. Just unhappy people coming here to ensure others are unhappy.

 

[stickty111]

Mitch Marner Playoffs
Games 1-4:
39 points in 36 games= 1.08 PPG

Games 5-7:
9 points in 21 games= 0.43 PPG

William Nylander Playoffs
Games 1-4:
26 points in 33 games= 0.79 PPG

Games 5-7:
17 points in 21 games= 0.81 PPG

As the series goes along and the games get more important, Marner falls off heavily while Nylander remains consistent.

Matthews
Games 1-4:

35 points In 36 games= 0.97 PPG


Games 5-7

13 points In 19 games= 0.68 PPG

Matthews hasn't been great but hasn't been awful like Marner.

It's on Marner to change this narrative. We'll judge in the playoffs.

 

[francis246]

I guess I just don’t understand why he didn’t recognize what happened last time and make a decision

1.) this is too much for me. I want out. Let’s do it in the summer. So I don’t come back to a circus.

I’m actually shocked at how little there has been. This pressure should have been applied the whole time

2.) I want to stay. I know that my agent caused issues last Time. I am staying with my agent because he is family, but we need to do this right. Sign in the summer.
Take my slightly more than Willy x8 and become the highest scoring player in leafs history. Get my statue and hopefully my cup.

Why he is doing the “wait to get the most possible money” thing is insane. He does it to himself. It’s not like Willy and Matty didn’t get paid.

Why do it like this?

What are you talking about? This is only his second NHL contract. The last contract he signed was after his ELC, after year 3 of his career. He was the most beloved leaf.

I’ve posted it numerous times, most players let their agent deal with things. There’s a few things the leafs did during the ELC years that probably influenced why Marner went hard (I think the biggest thing is they backdoored him on the schedule B bonuses). In hindsight that was not a hill to die on.

Secondly, I think both Dubas and Marner’s camp thought the cap was going up, contracts around the league would be inflated so no one would care that much. Covid happened and they were wrong.

Thirdly, coming out of their ELC’s did anyone actually believe that they would be 1-8 in playoff series’?! Who could have predicted that. Marner’s camp and Dubas probably thought they’d have multiple deep runs so the contract would be justified. People need to get a grip. No one has a crystal ball. When Marner signed the contract at 21/22 years old, he probably didn’t imagine people would hate him so much.

Maybe he legitimately is having internal questions about whether he wants to stay or not? Only Marner knows.

 

[mogs]

He played a pivotal role in Team Canadas win and the Mem in junior hockey.

He has a track record of winning.

I know everyone likes a scapegoat but this guy is an absolute stud on all sides of the puck, and in spite of playing wing probably plays an overall impact of some of the top centers in the league.

Mitch Marner and track record of winning is a delusional take. Memorial Cup and 4 Nations are ten years apart. Marner has a track record of losing. Just like Matthews, JT, Reilly and Nylander. All they do is lose.

 

[Legion34]

What are you talking about? This is only his second NHL contract. The last contract he signed was after his ELC, after year 3 of his career. He was the most beloved leaf.

I’ve posted it numerous times, most players let their agent deal with things. There’s a few things the leafs did during the ELC years that probably influenced why Marner went hard (I think the biggest thing is they backdoored him on the schedule B bonuses). In hindsight that was not a hill to die on.

Secondly, I think both Dubas and Marner’s camp thought the cap was going up, contracts around the league would be inflated so no one would care that much. Covid happened and they were wrong.

Thirdly, coming out of their ELC’s did anyone actually believe that they would be 1-8 in playoff series’?! Who could have predicted that. Marner’s camp and Dubas probably thought they’d have multiple deep runs so the contract would be justified. People need to get a grip. No one has a crystal ball. When Marner signed the contract at 21/22 years old, he probably didn’t imagine people would hate him so much.

Maybe he legitimately is having internal questions about whether he wants to stay or not? Only Marner knows.

Marners camp has been a problem from the beginning. I can tell you from very good information (take it or leave it) from the beginning that when the 3 stars came it was the marners who were the problem. Wanting to sell his own stuff with leafs logos for money etc.

I completely get that the schedule b bonus thing was an issue. I would be pissed too. But the way his agent went about it in the media was nuts. Matthews signed and Ferris and Paul both went on the news blasting the contract and how Mitch should be captain and he’s a “center who plays on the wing”.

Every day with the “dreger cafe” talking about how he will sign an offer sheet and go to Switzerland.

He tried to get Matthews money. Matthews is a top 6 all time goal scorer through 27. He is a hart/pearson 3x rocket winner. They aren’t comparable. Marner held out for every penny. He didn’t have to.

Willy got 7x6. Marner got 11 x 6. They are way more comparable (Marner is better. Should have got the rantanen plus bonuses).

He could have decided this summer. Now he’s being ridiculous. If you want to sign. Sign. If you want to leave. Leave.

 

[Peasy]

Marners camp has been a problem from the beginning. I can tell you from very good information (take it or leave it) from the beginning that when the 3 stars came it was the marners who were the problem. Wanting to sell his own stuff with leafs logos for money etc.

I completely get that the schedule b bonus thing was an issue. I would be pissed too. But the way his agent went about it in the media was nuts. Matthews signed and Ferris and Paul both went on the news blasting the contract and how Mitch should be captain and he’s a “center who plays on the wing”.

Every day with the “dreger cafe” talking about how he will sign an offer sheet and go to Switzerland.

He tried to get Matthews money. Matthews is a top 6 all time goal scorer through 27. He is a hart/pearson 3x rocket winner. They aren’t comparable. Marner held out for every penny. He didn’t have to.

Willy got 7x6. Marner got 11 x 6. They are way more comparable (Marner is better. Should have got the rantanen plus bonuses).

He could have decided this summer. Now he’s being ridiculous. If you want to sign. Sign. If you want to leave. Leave.

He wants to stay only if the Leafs over pay him lol. I really hope the Leafs don't budge and let Marner go play in Pitts or Chicago if money is really whats most important for him.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marners camp has been a problem from the beginning. I can tell you from very good information (take it or leave it) from the beginning that when the 3 stars came it was the marners who were the problem. Wanting to sell his own stuff with leafs logos for money etc.

I completely get that the schedule b bonus thing was an issue. I would be pissed too. But the way his agent went about it in the media was nuts. Matthews signed and Ferris and Paul both went on the news blasting the contract and how Mitch should be captain and he’s a “center who plays on the wing”.

Every day with the “dreger cafe” talking about how he will sign an offer sheet and go to Switzerland.

He tried to get Matthews money. Matthews is a top 6 all time goal scorer through 27. He is a hart/pearson 3x rocket winner. They aren’t comparable. Marner held out for every penny. He didn’t have to.

Willy got 7x6. Marner got 11 x 6. They are way more comparable (Marner is better. Should have got the rantanen plus bonuses).

He could have decided this summer. Now he’s being ridiculous. If you want to sign. Sign. If you want to leave. Leave.

It definitely looks like he's going to walk. How ACC1224 and the rest of the Marner camp handle the narrative about rejecting to waive his NTC and allowing the Leafs to get Rantanen, will be interesting to see.

 

[Divine]

It definitely looks like he's going to walk. How ACC1224 and the rest of the Marner camp handle the narrative about rejecting to waive his NTC and allowing the Leafs to get Rantanen, will be interesting to see.

"No one would go to Carolina" seems to be the narrative.

I'd guess Marner goes to market, realizes no one is going to overpay him like the Leafs did and then take a discount from another team and sell it as he wants to win (regardless of the strength of the team). I wouldn't rule Boston out with all their cap space.

It's not a bad scenerio to let Marner walk and get our cap structure back to normal. With Nylander signed long term and Tavares' hit coming down - the team will be a lot more balanced without Marner's cap hit.

 

[Legion34]

It definitely looks like he's going to walk. How ACC1224 and the rest of the Marner camp handle the narrative about rejecting to waive his NTC and allowing the Leafs to get Rantanen, will be interesting to see.

See I don’t mind him “not wanting to go to carolina”. Ok no problem.

But he has to know where he does want to go right? 9 years. You don’t have any idea? You don’t talk about it in the summer? Come on.

If he wants to walk. My bet is LA. But who knows.

Why not get clarke/fiala. Move on in the summer. Instead of having a baby and moving across the world.

Makes zero sense.

 

[Legion34]

"No one would go to Carolina" seems to be the narrative.

I'd guess Marner goes to market, realizes no one is going to overpay him like the Leafs did and then take a discount from another team and sell it as he wants to win (regardless of the strength of the team). I wouldn't rule Boston out with all their cap space.

They don’t have much really. Utah/LA seem to be the ones.

 

[francis246]

Marners camp has been a problem from the beginning. I can tell you from very good information (take it or leave it) from the beginning that when the 3 stars came it was the marners who were the problem. Wanting to sell his own stuff with leafs logos for money etc.

I completely get that the schedule b bonus thing was an issue. I would be pissed too. But the way his agent went about it in the media was nuts. Matthews signed and Ferris and Paul both went on the news blasting the contract and how Mitch should be captain and he’s a “center who plays on the wing”.

Every day with the “dreger cafe” talking about how he will sign an offer sheet and go to Switzerland.

He tried to get Matthews money. Matthews is a top 6 all time goal scorer through 27. He is a hart/pearson 3x rocket winner. They aren’t comparable. Marner held out for every penny. He didn’t have to.

Willy got 7x6. Marner got 11 x 6. They are way more comparable (Marner is better. Should have got the rantanen plus bonuses).

He could have decided this summer. Now he’s being ridiculous. If you want to sign. Sign. If you want to leave. Leave.

Yup I agree, sign if you want to be here, leave if he doesn’t. But expecting him to help out the leafs by agreeing to be traded is delusional at its finest. They gave him the NMC, he’s not obligated to waive just because the leafs would get a good player. Maybe he legit feels like this season his best chance to go on a deep run is with the leafs and then he leaves. Does it suck for the fanbase? Yes, but that’s his contractual right. You cannot be mad at him for that. Be pissed off at management. They could have moved him before if he was such a problem. They didn’t. So that’s on them, not on Marner. The leafs always do this, they wait till it’s too late to move off a player.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Yup I agree, sign if you want to be here, leave if he doesn’t. But expecting him to help out the leafs by agreeing to be traded is delusional at its finest. They gave him the NMC, he’s not obligated to waive just because the leafs would get a good player. Maybe he legit feels like this season his best chance to go on a deep run is with the leafs and then he leaves. Does it suck for the fanbase? Yes, but that’s his contractual right. You cannot be mad at him for that. Be pissed off at management. They could have moved him before if he was such a problem. They didn’t. So that’s on them, not on Marner. The leafs always do this, they wait till it’s too late to move off a player.

Isn't he a Leafs fan?

 

[Legion34]

Yup I agree, sign if you want to be here, leave if he doesn’t. But expecting him to help out the leafs by agreeing to be traded is delusional at its finest. They gave him the NMC, he’s not obligated to waive just because the leafs would get a good player. Maybe he legit feels like this season his best chance to go on a deep run is with the leafs and then he leaves. Does it suck for the fanbase? Yes, but that’s his contractual right. You cannot be mad at him for that. Be pissed off at management. They could have moved him before if he was such a problem. They didn’t. So that’s on them, not on Marner. The leafs always do this, they wait till it’s too late to move off a player.

Except it’s costing him the 8th year. It doesn’t make any sense.

Imagine it’s you.

You decide you want to leave. You have all the time in the world in the summer to decide where you want to go. Ease in to a new market, find doctors, plan your family. Start training camp.

You can sign and have 100 million is gauranteed.

Or you decide you want to leave. But force the team to keep you, lose 12-13 million gauranteed. Have a new baby in a new country/city.

Makes zero sense.
If you want to leave. Then why force to stay for 2024-2025 then leave? Why put yourself at risk of injury when you know you are leaving ?

Why would that be helping Toronto out? That’s being logical. Why force to stay somewhere you don’t want to be?

 

[thewave]

Should be a lesson to every GM. Never overpay. Never give in to NMC demands. Marner whined for his current contract. He complained about getting bonuses. No he is going to hold us hostage for a team crippling contract or else.

Never do a player a favour. No good deed will go unpunished.

After the confirmation he wouldn't waive I just don't want him around at all. I was even ok if he takes a higher number but gives up the NMC for a Limited or short contract.

4 Years - 2y NMC + 2yrs Limited

 

[francis246]

Isn't he a Leafs fan?

Are you okay in the head?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Are you okay in the head?

Absolutely. Well apart from being a Leafs fan. There's definitely questions to be asked there.

 

[horner]

He’s over $14M in Toronto with term.

Taxes considered.

But the fanbase is way too toxic so he’s going to leave anyway.

Dubas shouldn’t have given the NMC, we could have just got Rantanen had the last GM not caved to a player off an ELC.

It was setup for failure when JT was brought in.

 

[francis246]

Except it’s costing him the 8th year. It doesn’t make any sense.

Imagine it’s you.

You decide you want to leave. You have all the time in the world in the summer to decide where you want to go. Ease in to a new market, find doctors, plan your family. Start training camp.

You can sign and have 100 million is gauranteed.

Or you decide you want to leave. But force the team to keep you, lose 12-13 million gauranteed. Have a new baby in a new country/city.

Makes zero sense.
If you want to leave. Then why force to stay for 2024-2025 then leave? Why put yourself at risk of injury when you know you are leaving ?

Why would that be helping Toronto out? That’s being logical. Why force to stay somewhere you don’t want to be?

If it’s me, I’m doing what Marner did and walking myself to UFA. I’m not going to get the team I want to trade assets for me when I can walk there in the summer for free.

Im also currently engaged and I would never ask my fiance to move while she’s pregnant and im not going to go leave somewhere and leave her behind for the rest of the season and have her deal with the pregnancy alone (which is what a lot of players do at the deadline, then the rest of the family moves in the summer) So yeah im not moving.

The leafs benefitted from that when JT did the exact same thing.

My point is, maybe he actually doesn’t know what he wants to do right now and he isn’t contractually obligated to have a decision made TODAY. He has until June 30th whether you like it or not and an NMC. So what do you want him to do.

Pretty sure the baby is being born in the summer. So the baby is being born in Toronto regardless before the next season.

 

[thewave]

If it’s me, I’m doing what Marner did and walking myself to UFA. I’m not going to get the team I want to trade assets for me when I can walk there in the summer for free.

Im also currently engaged and I would never ask my fiance to move while she’s pregnant and im not going to go leave somewhere and leave her behind for the rest of the season and have her deal with the pregnancy alone (which is what a lot of players do at the deadline, then the rest of the family moves in the summer) So yeah im not moving.

The leafs benefitted from that when JT did the exact same thing.

My point is, maybe he actually doesn’t know what he wants to do right now and he isn’t contractually obligated to have a decision made TODAY. He has until June 30th whether you like it or not and an NMC. So what do you want him to do.

For most GMs I would say by saying no to being waived, they told you they don't want you so the moving is going to happen sooner or later.

 

[Legion34]

If it’s me, I’m doing what Marner did and walking myself to UFA. I’m not going to get the team I want to trade assets for me when I can walk there in the summer for free.

Im also currently engaged and I would never ask my fiance to move while she’s pregnant and im not going to go leave somewhere and leave her behind for the rest of the season and have her deal with the pregnancy alone (which is what a lot of players do at the deadline, then the rest of the family moves in the summer) So yeah im not moving.

The leafs benefitted from that when JT did the exact same thing.

My point is, maybe he actually doesn’t know what he wants to do right now and he isn’t contractually obligated to have a decision made TODAY. He has until June 30th whether you like it or not and an NMC. So what do you want him to do.

See. That’s the point. She wasn’t pregnant then. She is now. So he is doing that. He is asking ether to move if he wants to leave in the summer while pregnant and have a new born in a new country.

You would give up an extra year to make sure your team doesn’t looks assets? Teams don’t care about draft picks.

Would you take less money so they don’t have to drop players to fit you in?

It’s a bizzare move

 

[horner]

Be prepared for Marner leaving
That's why I wasn't excited about giving up a 1st.
At least we have a rock solid defense minus MO, which if we don't do well in the playoffs he will be traded

 

[francis246]

For most GMs I would say by saying no to being waived, they told you they don't want you so the moving is going to happen sooner or later.

Okay and? If he believes his best chance to win is Toronto then what? Which I truly think is the case. Carolina isn’t as good as Toronto, why would he go there? The west is insane, so unless it’s EDM, COL, DAL, he’s not winning. So I think it honestly comes down to, maybe he does want to leave but the money is going to be there regardless in the summer. If he wants to win now, his best opportunity is with Toronto who is battling for first in the East and if they can lock down first there would be no better path to a deep run. So it makes sense why he has chosen not to waive even if he does want to leave. It’s clear he doesn’t care about the 8th year.

Personally I think he’s joining McDavid in EDM on a short term deal

 

[ToneDog]

I guess I just don’t understand why he didn’t recognize what happened last time and make a decision

1.) this is too much for me. I want out. Let’s do it in the summer. So I don’t come back to a circus.

I’m actually shocked at how little there has been. This pressure should have been applied the whole time

2.) I want to stay. I know that my agent caused issues last Time. I am staying with my agent because he is family, but we need to do this right. Sign in the summer.
Take my slightly more than Willy x8 and become the highest scoring player in leafs history. Get my statue and hopefully my cup.

Why he is doing the “wait to get the most possible money” thing is insane. He does it to himself. It’s not like Willy and Matty didn’t get paid.

Why do it like this?

Was listening the the Leafs post game show last night and Bunkis and McKee talked about the situation. They pretty much echoed what I said yesterday but they also said it could be that he feels unappreciated by the fanbase and that there could some ego involved, and why he wants to be paid as much or more than Matthews. Ferris is not wagging the dog here. He is doing what Mitch allows him to do. If that were not the case, Bunkis and McKee said he is a grown man and should make his own decisions.

Marner PR crew, please don't tell me they are not worth listening to.