Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[ClarkSittler]

Yea, and what was Bobs record against Boston, prior to playing us? Or after in the cup final that year against Vegas? You are just trying to manipulate a narrative, and that's cool. I just don't buy it.

Good luck having a discussion with this guy.
Leafs lose to a goalie = goalie was hot
Another team smokes same goalie = he wasn't playing well.

That's Dekes logic 101

 

[Sypher04]

Tre has to figure out who to target and get it done like he did last summer with Tanev, Stolarz and OEL to a lesser degree. If Bennett is his man, he can trade for his rights before July 1 and work out a deal that works for both.

Not a bad strategy.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

The Leafs may finally be forced to walk away from him, which is great.

I think Marner is going to realize his value around the league isn’t what he thinks it is.

Marner should sign for cheaper to a team that's actually good and finally experience some success. Would not be the first time.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner should sign for cheaper to a team that's actually good and finally experience some success. Would not be the first time.

What serious SC contender can give him such a deal and fit him in under their cap? Here's a good question they asked Kypreos yesterday. Would you take Petey and the remaining $11.6mx7 in his deal for free?

Another interesting tid bit, if a team can trade for Ranta and Carolina retains 50%, his cap hit will be $2.5m. Imagine Dallas adding Ranta and then getting Hieskanen and Seguin back for the playoffs.

 

[Fogelhund]

What serious SC contender can give him such a deal and fit him in under their cap? Here's a good question they asked Kypreos yesterday. Would you take Petey and the remaining $11.6mx7 in his deal for free?

Another interesting tid bit, if a team can trade for Ranta and Carolina retains 50%, his cap hit will be $2.5m. Imagine Dallas adding Ranta and then getting Hieskanen and Seguin back for the playoffs.

Ranta would be an interesting addition to our team at $2.3125 mil..... Probably too pricey for a rental though.

 

[IPS]

Good luck having a discussion with this guy.
Leafs lose to a goalie = goalie was hot
Another team smokes same goalie = he wasn't playing well.

That's Dekes logic 101

Does it also work in reverse too? Can we take away and diminish Marner's 2023 series vs Tampa because Vasilevksy was playing at a .875 SV%? Are we adding proper "context" to Marner's 11 points in 6 games if we do that?

It's such dumb smooth brained shit it's not even worth wasting the time to argue against.

 

[Sypher04]

you guys need to stop saying Ranta lol. That’s a different player.

Is it even worth dropping 3 letters to shorten

 

[Confucius]

The Leafs may finally be forced to walk away from him, which is great.

I think Marner is going to realize his value around the league isn’t what he thinks it is.

I always was of the opinion this will go to at least July 1st. We won’t get the best deal by signing him early. I can see Dubas offering the moon but nobody else. I expect Mitch to be a Penguin next year. Hope Trump doesn’t draft him. lol!

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

What serious SC contender can give him such a deal and fit him in under their cap? Here's a good question they asked Kypreos yesterday. Would you take Petey and the remaining $11.6mx7 in his deal for free?

Another interesting tid bit, if a team can trade for Ranta and Carolina retains 50%, his cap hit will be $2.5m. Imagine Dallas adding Ranta and then getting Hieskanen and Seguin back for the playoffs.

No good team would pay him as much, which is why I think the Leafs will be the ones that sign him. Leafs will give him everything he wants, dollars, term, and trade protection. Just like they've done with everyone else. While the toughest fanbase in the league exclaims "Well, what else could they do?!?! " We've seen this play out enough times and for enough years, they won't just decide that NOW is the time to become competitive. Especially when the owners are the same, the people that run the team are the same, and we saw Shanahan tell us that he wanted Kyle Dumbass back and that Kyle Dumbass did an "excellent" job.

I'm just saying that personally I would take the couple million hit and sign for cheaper and get out of here because this team has no success in it's future, but we don't know what his priorities are. He might be like the rest of the core, just looking out for #1. And I don't think Godhood is handed out quite as easily elsewhere.

 

[francis246]

The Leafs may finally be forced to walk away from him, which is great.

I think Marner is going to realize his value around the league isn’t what he thinks it is.

CJ said Marner isn’t looking to be the highest paid player.

I think 4 nations was good in terms of confidence but bad in terms of contract negotiations. Not because Marner will want more money but the conversations that possibly were had in the locker room and behind closed doors. You have to believe a bunch of the Canada guys were lobbying for Marner to join their teams, the tournament probably even gave him a little taste of what it would be like to be playing with different players.

Different sports but I remember Bosh, LeBron and Wade decided to join forces after they played together at a World Champuonship or Olympics , I think it was the 2008 Beijing olympics

 

[francis246]

Marner should sign for cheaper to a team that's actually good and finally experience some success. Would not be the first time.

This is what my gut is telling me is going to happen. I could easily see him taking 11.5 on a 1 or 2 year deal and going to the Edmonton Maple Leafs lol.

Andy Strickland said the oilers would make a pitch for Rantanen in the off season. Why wouldn’t Rantanen or Marner explore that option on a short term deal before the cap does up?

 

[Sypher04]

This is what my gut is telling me is going to happen. I could easily see him taking 11.5 on a 1 or 2 year deal and going to the Edmonton Maple Leafs lol.

Andy Strickland said the oilers would make a pitch for Rantanen in the off season. Why wouldn’t Rantanen or Marner explore that option on a short term deal before the cap does up?

Both seem very improbable imo

 

[francis246]

Both seem very improbable imo

Potentially but I’d never rule anything out. I’d have to crunch the numbers but I believe Edmonton might be one of the teams that could make it work depending on what the players take.

 

[Sypher04]

Potentially but I’d never rule anything out. I’d have to crunch the numbers but I believe Edmonton might be one of the teams that could make it work depending on what the players take.

They have just 23 million of space with only half their forward group signed and half their D, including Bouchard needing a new deal. I cannot see it. Not if they want to actually improve their D or G

 

[thewave]

Marner should sign for cheaper to a team that's actually good and finally experience some success. Would not be the first time.

Look Tre should approach him with a final number and deal in or out? Ask him to waive and try and get something.

Letting thus drama carry into the playoffs is just as bad.

 

[francis246]

They have just 23 million of space with only half their forward group signed and half their D, including Bouchard needing a new deal.

If they move Nurse or Kane they’d be able to make it work. Moving Nurse makes it a real possibility, moving Kane makes it tighter and one of the guys they want would have to take a discount. Then you’re playing ELC guys and dumpster diving to fill out the bottom six.

 

[Sypher04]

If they move Nurse or Kane they’d be able to make it work. Moving Nurse makes it a real possibility, moving Kane makes it tighter and one of the guys they want would have to take a discount. Then you’re playing ELC guys and dumpster diving to fill out the bottom six.

I guess. Nobody is taking Nurse though imo. And subtracting from the D to bolster a forward group that doesn’t need it sounds like a pretty stupid direction to take organizationally.

4th in GF/g. 21st in GA/g

Basically if they have no interest in improving club weaknesses and they can trick someone into taking Nurse without massive retention then maybe.

 

[francis246]

They have just 23 million of space with only half their forward group signed and half their D, including Bouchard needing a new deal. I cannot see it. Not if they want to actually improve their D or G

So I crunched the numbers

If EDM traded Kane or LTIR’d Kane again

Signed Bouchard to 8 million

Signed Marner to 10.9-11.5 million, it would work out.

Bouchard may want a short term deal anyways so on short term deals for Marner/Rantaneb and Bouchard it’s definitely a play. That would be the ultimate cup or bust. You’d be walking Marner, McDavid and Boucher to UFA. Would be a massive risk to win a cup

 

[Sypher04]

So I crunched the numbers

If EDM traded Kane or LTIR’d Kane again

Signed Bouchard to 8 million

Signed Marner to 10.9-11.5 million, it would work out.

Bouchard may want a short term deal anyways so on short term deals for Marner/Rantaneb and Bouchard it’s definitely a play.

I know this premise was obviously predicated on the idea of Marner or Rantanen taking less, but I think Bouchard and Marner combined come in 2-3 million more than that. Honestly maybe even more.

 

[Kurtz]

No one is advocating for trading all 3 stars, are they?

The sweet spot for most teams seem to be 2 (at most) stars at forwards.

There's really no set formula for how many star forwards you need to win a cup. Florida had 3 last year with Tkachuk, Barkov, Reinheart. Vegas won with 2 the year before. Avs had 4 with that monster season from Kadri. Tampa had 3. Teams don't generally dispose of a star player because they feel they have too many. In fact, they seem to go the other way, with Vegas adding Hertl and Tampa adding Guentzel.

 

[francis246]

I know this premise was obviously predicated on the idea of Marner or Rantanen taking less, but I think Bouchard and Marner come in 2-3 million more than that. Honestly maybe even more.

You think Bouchard is resetting the defense market? Getting more than Makar? If I’m Bouchard I’m taking a bridge and lining myself up for UFA.

 

[Racer88]

People are afraid of change and they want you to be afraid too.

I live with fear every day……and sometimes she lets me build a new car

 

[Kurtz]

So I crunched the numbers

If EDM traded Kane or LTIR’d Kane again

Signed Bouchard to 8 million

Signed Marner to 10.9-11.5 million, it would work out.

Bouchard may want a short term deal anyways so on short term deals for Marner/Rantaneb and Bouchard it’s definitely a play. That would be the ultimate cup or bust. You’d be walking Marner, McDavid and Boucher to UFA. Would be a massive risk to win a cup

Is there precedent for UFAs taking such a large discount to sign in Edmonton?

 

[All Mod Cons]

With the rumors of Marner testing the ufa market, that tells us he doesn't care about that 8th year, because he was gonna go short term all along. He'll probably sign for 2 years, around 13m, after which the cap will be 113.5m, at 14% would be $15,890,000 and he'll take his 8 year deal then. The 8 year contract will be perfectly timed for him, as he will be paid 14% as in his prime but possibly be in decline for the entirety of the contract. If the cap rises a lot in 2028/29 then a 3 year deal now would be even more lucrative for Marner, and worse for Toronto. Here we thought we had that 8th year advantage to get him signed to 13 x 8 to compete with 14 x 7 offers. It was a pipe dream. He railed us when he had little leverage over us as a rfa, but now that he has that ufa leverage he will use it to get paid max dollar til he retires. He's gonna be making around 16m for his ages 30-38 years. He's been thinking a few steps ahead of the rest of us. Doesn't hurt him signing after Matthews every time either.

I suggested a 1 or 2 year deal a while back and everyone thought I was mental.

 

[francis246]

Is there precedent for UFAs taking such a large discount to sign in Edmonton?

I’m not too sure, I’d have to dig into it a little more. I also think we are in an unprecedented team in terms of creativity with contracts and the projected cap numbers. So lots of things could be in play.