Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

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Because that’s important. It’s what every player and team strives for.
I do not understand why some think such an important thing as playoff success has no bearing on a players value to the team
It is important but it is almost never a factor in contract negotiations.

It seems silly, but players get paid for the 82 gsme regular season. A lot of it has to do with the fact half the league doesn't make the playoffs and players have little to no control if they do.

If a team wants to tank, how are you going to value a contract for anyone on that team? Bedard has no chance of making the playoffs in his ELC. He won't get paid less because of it
 
It has nothing to do with value. Players salary is for regular season, they are not paid for the playoffs. The ignorance of some fans is astounding.
If you don’t think that teams consider playoff contributions when figuring out what a player is worth to them then I can’t help you.
 
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Draisaitl signed before the season because Edmonton was willing to pay him 14 million a year and he wanted to stay in Edmonton. That’s literally it. You always try and over analyze a situation.

Maybe Marner doesn’t know if he wants to stay in Toronto and is waiting to see how things play out. He’s already made a lot of money. I don’t think it’s all about money.
Then why did Marner want a short term deal like Matthews on his last contract? It's because agents aren't dumb and know the cap% goes up every year. Its the same thing uncle Marleau did throughout his career and likely the wisdom he passed down to them.

There really is no other explanation for wanting short contracts. Because not taking long contracts puts risk that you lose alot of money if you become injured.
 
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It is important but it is almost never a factor in contract negotiations.

It seems silly, but players get paid for the 82 gsme regular season. A lot of it has to do with the fact half the league doesn't make the playoffs and players have little to no control if they do.

If a team wants to tank, how are you going to value a contract for anyone on that team? Bedard has no chance of making the playoffs in his ELC. He won't get paid less because of it
On paper yes they get paid for 82 games but in reality they are paid to play every single game that the team plays in that season including the playoffs (not counting injury or personal team approved leave)if the team makes it, or do you think that a player could simply say, naw I’m not going to play game any playoff games this year because I’m not getting paid for it?
 
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If you don’t think that teams consider playoff contributions when figuring out what a player is worth to them then I can’t help you.

They consider it of course but it’s not a heavy consideration when handing out long term contracts to singular players. If it were the case, Bedard will not get paid a ton, Brady Tkachuk, Jake Sanderson, Tim Stutzle, Matt Boldy for example shouldn’t have got the contracts they got.

None of our stars should have either. But they did, so we know it doesn’t really affect the value of players
 
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It has nothing to do with value. Players salary is for regular season, they are not paid for the playoffs. The ignorance of some fans is astounding.
So if the pay is only for the regular season can a player simply refuse to play any playoff games because he is not getting paid for it
 
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They consider it of course but it’s not a heavy consideration when handing out long term contracts to singular players. If it were the case, Bedard will not get paid a ton, Brady Tkachuk, Jake Sanderson, Tim Stutzle, Matt Boldy for example shouldn’t have got the contracts they got.

None of our stars should have either. But they did, so we know it doesn’t really affect the value of players
I agree to a certain extent but when we are looking at 8 years of failure of this core to succeed in the playoffs it will certainly influence what or if they feel they can give any player. Not picking on just Marner here because he really picked it up in the 4 nations but if they have another year of failure or lack of contribution in the playoffs and they decide to move on from him you can bet they will be looking for playoff results in their search for a replacement
 
I agree to a certain extent but when we are looking at 8 years of failure of this core to succeed in the playoffs it will certainly influence what or if they feel they can give any player. Not picking on just Marner here because he really picked it up in the 4 nations but if they have another year of failure or lack of contribution in the playoffs and they decide to move on from him you can bet they will be looking for playoff results in their search for a replacement

Agreed, I think in the case of Marner with the leafs it will be a bigger consideration due to the fact they paid him a lot, he has t quite lived up to the contract 100% and the team has had minimal success. So his situation is a bit of a unicorn in that way.
 
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Oh im keeping up:

General managers understand that the salary cap will rise each year and agents know this too. That’s why players like Matthews and Marner are opting for short-term contracts, because it allows them to benefit from future cap increases.

Look at the situation with Draisaitl and Marner. Though their contracts end at the same time, Draisaitl signed his deal before the season started while Marner waited for the anticipated cap rise. Even if they receive the same annual salary, Marner’s timing means his deal effectively costs more cap space next year when both his and Draisaitls contracts begin

Colorado’s decision to walk away from Rantanen, reportedly because they dont believe they can win with 3 highly paid players, shows a reluctance to absorb that increased cap hit (even though Rantanen appears to have earned with the amount based on cap%). Though, it becimes increasingly harder to compete with other teams, when other top players similar in age and skill such as Kucherov, M.Tkatchuk, Barkov, and Reinhart have long-term contracts averaging between $8.6 million and 10 million per year.

The question then becomes, is Marner, who is around the same age as these players, really worth 47% to 67% more in cap hit? With these players signed through the prime of Marner’s career, we’d be paying Marner significantly more. Up to 47% more than M.Tkatchuk and 67% more than Reinhart until our cup window is long past.

IMO, agreeing to an average annual contract over $11.6 million for Marner would be cup suicide, especially with Matthews scheduled for another raise in a couple of years. One of these two overpaid players needs to be moved if we are serious about winning a cup and it isn’t going to be Matthews.
Again.. Noone's comparing Drizzy and Mitch except you. And even in that example, Drizzy signing for 14 on a cap of 88 = 15.9% of the Cap!! Tops in the league. Nobody's suggesting that for Mitch, outside of mayyybe Dekes.

Dream for Leafs is:
$12.5 x 8 = 100M !!!
$12.5 = just 13.1% of $92.5 Cap

That 13% is in the LOW end of NHL Prognosticators and chatgpt projections, where the range for Mitch should be set at between 13% to 14.9%.

15 % er's are reserved for McD, Matty and Nate and Drai.

Every other lowballer example below this range is an old anomaly, a terrible agent, or a player that formerly had baggage of some kind. Ignore 'em.
 
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It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay Marner 47% and 67% more than M.Tkatchuk and Reinhart and many others respectively until each are comfortably out of their primes.

The problem with the Leafs is they keep paying way too much for their core and they can't afford to surround those players with quality teammates. Usually it balances out, players sign long term contracts and at some point those players are reasonably priced (as the cup goes up) and they are able to build a roster.

In this case with Marner and Matthews, the Leafs haven't been able to do so. Partly because of covid but alot because of their shorter duration contracts and because Marner was way overpaid compared to his peers. When Dubas signed the Marner contract their were reports that Colorado was pissed because it ment paying Rantanen more than they thought he was worth.

Paying Marner 14 million puts the leafs in a very tough spot to build a roster in the immediate future and once Matthews contract is up in a couple years, we will be in yet an even worse spot to build out the roster.

These two individually are making it impossible for the Leafs to build a contender.
 
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Again.. Noone's comparing Drizzy and Mitch except you. And even in that example, Drizzy signing for 14 on a cap of 88 = 15.9% of the Cap!! Tops in the league. Nobody's suggesting that for Mitch, outside of mayyybe Dekes.

Dream for Leafs is:
$12.5 x 8 = 100M !!!
$12.5 = just 13.1% of $92.5 Cap

That 13% is in the LOW end of NHL Prognosticators and chatgpt projections, where the range for Mitch should be set at between 13% to 14.9%.

15 % er's are reserved for McD, Matty and Nate and Drai.

Every other lowballer example below this range is an old anomaly, a terrible agent, or a player that formerly had baggage of some kind. Ignore 'em.

Or a player playing in Florida hahaha
 
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Agreed, I think in the case of Marner with the leafs it will be a bigger consideration due to the fact they paid him a lot, he has t quite lived up to the contract 100% and the team has had minimal success. So his situation is a bit of a unicorn in that way.
My personal preference is that he rocks it in the playoffs then they can legitimately pay the guy a fair contract and all the controversy goes away and we can all celebrate the cup.
Boom
 
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Again.. Noone's comparing Drizzy and Mitch except you. And even in that example, Drizzy signing for 14 on a cap of 88 = 15.9% of the Cap!! Tops in the league. Nobody's suggesting that for Mitch, outside of mayyybe Dekes.

Dream for Leafs is:
$12.5 x 8 = 100M !!!
$12.5 = just 13.1% of $92.5 Cap

That 13% is in the LOW end of NHL Prognosticators and chatgpt projections, where the range for Mitch should be set at between 13% to 14.9%.

15 % er's are reserved for McD, Matty and Nate and Drai.

Every other lowballer example below this range is an old anomaly, a terrible agent, or a player that formerly had baggage of some kind. Ignore 'em.
$12.5m = 13.1% of $95.5m cap or 13.5% of $92.5m cap
 
My personal preference is that he rocks it in the playoffs then they can legitimately pay the guy a fair contract and all the controversy goes away and we can all celebrate the cup.
Boom

Exactly, love or hate him, we should all want him to do well because that means we are closer to a cup. I want a good run out of our team this year. I want our guys to dominate, I want McMann to have a hell of a series and be an X factor in round 1. A deep run is what we all need and have been longing for
 
My personal preference is that he rocks it in the playoffs then they can legitimately pay the guy a fair contract and all the controversy goes away and we can all celebrate the cup.
Boom
Most of the controversary goes away if he takes a little more than the Nylander deal based on the new cap. He better be sure he does not shit his pants in the playoffs if he does not sign first. The way I see it, he'd be putting more pressure on himself and we know how he has dealt with pressure in the playoffs.
 
If Marner gets 14 million. Then the leafs will be paying 39 million for Marner, Matthews, Nylander for the next 3 years. Then of course Matthews gets another raise at beginning of 2028 season.

And Florida paying 27.5 million for Barkov, Reinhart, M.Tkatchuk until at least 2031.

Until at least 2030-2031

If the cap goes up to 120+ million as it is predicted around 2028, that would put Matthews contract around 18 million at 15%.

So... at the beginning of the 2028 season the leafs would be paying Nylander, Matthews, Marner roughly 42.5 million, while Panthers will still be paying Barkov, Reinhart, Tkatchuk 27.5 million. $15 million difference lol.
 
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It has nothing to do with value. Players salary is for regular season, they are not paid for the playoffs. The ignorance of some fans is astounding.
I understand what your saying but it has to be taken into consideration playoff can’t be a non factor then it tells you the teams objective cause winning the cup is all that is supposed to matter and your roster should be built as such
 
Hope the kid likes Utah. :sarcasm:
We should have traded for him he has more goals then most our players

It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay Marner 47% and 67% more than M.Tkatchuk and Reinhart and many others respectively until each are comfortably out of their primes.

The problem with the Leafs is they keep paying way too much for their core and they can't afford to surround those players with quality teammates. Usually it balances out, players sign long term contracts and at some point those players are reasonably priced (as the cup goes up) and they are able to build a roster.

In this case with Marner and Matthews, the Leafs haven't been able to do so. Partly because of covid but alot because of their shorter duration contracts and because Marner was way overpaid compared to his peers. When Dubas signed the Marner contract their were reports that Colorado was pissed because it ment paying Rantanen more than they thought he was worth.

Paying Marner 14 million puts the leafs in a very tough spot to build a roster in the immediate future and once Matthews contract is up in a couple years, we will be in yet an even worse spot to build out the roster.

These two individually are making it impossible for the Leafs to build a contender.
I think it comes down to Matthews or marner not both if marner feels like Hes comparable to Matthews the teams needs to decide who the alpha dog is and ship or let the other one walk
 
If Marner gets 14 million. Then the leafs will be paying 39 million for Marner, Matthews, Nylander for the next 3 years. Then of course Matthews gets another raise at beginning of 2028 season.

And Florida paying 27.5 million for Barkov, Reinhart, M.Tkatchuk until at least 2031.

Until at least 2030-2031

If the cap goes up to 120+ million as it is predicted around 2028, that would put Matthews contract around 18 million at 15%.

So... at the beginning of the 2028 season the leafs would be paying Nylander, Matthews, Marner roughly 42.5 million, while Panthers will still be paying Barkov, Reinhart, Tkatchuk 27.5 million. $15 million difference lol.
Just starting up a completely new thought process now, eh..? Kk - My turn to keep up I guess... lol

Florida would pay these Leaf players the same as they are getting now given the same timing and circumstances. Otherwise, one doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the other. It just so happens they each, but especially Barz and Rienhart - were not valued at the same %'s as the upper tier of forwards in the league were.

But.. if we havvvvvve to (and we don't - cuz this is apples to frickin' potato chips):

Mitch at 12.5 + Will 11.5 + Matty at 13.25 = 37.25

Completely reasonable for what they bring, but costly for any 1 team, that's for sure.

Tkachuk at 10, + Barz and Rieny at 9.5 and 8.625 = $28.125.

So barely 9 mill difference..? I mean, It's not all that aggregious..... Barz is definitely more defensive in posture, Matthew has had a handful of good seasons, and Rieny just kinda got outed in the 4 nations, as an insignificant contributor who is just barely a top tier winger in this league. I dunno.. it's basically a wash to me.. nothing too outrageous and certainly nothing to freak out about.
 
Just starting up a completely new thought process now, eh..? Kk - My turn to keep up I guess... lol

Florida would pay these Leaf players the same as they are getting now given the same timing and circumstances. Otherwise, one doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the other. It just so happens they each, but especially Barz and Rienhart - were not valued at the same %'s as the upper tier of forwards in the league were.

But.. if we havvvvvve to (and we don't - cuz this is apples to frickin' potato chips):

Mitch at 12.5 + Will 11.5 + Matty at 13.25 = 37.25

Completely reasonable for what they bring, but costly for any 1 team, that's for sure.

Tkachuk at 10, + Barz and Rieny at 9.5 and 8.625 = $28.125.

So barely 9 mill difference..? I mean, It's not all that aggregious..... Barz is definitely more defensive in posture, Matthew has had a handful of good seasons, and Rieny just kinda got outed in the 4 nations, as an insignificant contributor who is just barely a top tier winger in this league. I dunno.. it's basically a wash to me.. nothing too outrageous and certainly nothing to freak out about.
Reinhart got ousted as an insignificant contributor? He had 4 points and Marner had 3.

We have 2 seasons with new cap of Matthews before his contract sky rockets again and as I stated, the difference will be closer to 15 million between the two cores until Marner is 34 years old.
 
Reinhart got ousted as an insignificant contributor? He had 4 points and Marner had 3. Reinhart had 3 assists in the must win game 3 vs Finland.
Outed. Yes.

I thought he was largely ineffective overall. He didn't score or click w his linemates in the big moments, and only showed in the consolation Finn game that I didn't even watch. Ya - not quite Matty, Mitch to me. But hey, bigger point being made by me up there --> that it's all not that big of a discrepancy, if you can add a bit of nuance and context to each scenario - and regardless of what you think of the players
 
Oh im keeping up:

General managers understand that the salary cap will rise each year and agents know this too. That’s why players like Matthews and Marner are opting for short-term contracts, because it allows them to benefit from future cap increases.

Look at the situation with Draisaitl and Marner. Though their contracts end at the same time, Draisaitl signed his deal before the season started while Marner waited for the anticipated cap rise. Even if they receive the same annual salary, Marner’s timing means his deal effectively costs more cap space next year when both his and Draisaitls contracts begin

Colorado’s decision to walk away from Rantanen, reportedly because they dont believe they can win with 3 highly paid players, shows a reluctance to absorb that increased cap hit (even though Rantanen appears to have earned with the amount based on cap%). Though, it becimes increasingly harder to compete with other teams, when other top players similar in age and skill such as Kucherov, M.Tkatchuk, Barkov, and Reinhart have long-term contracts averaging between $8.6 million and 10 million per year.

The question then becomes, is Marner, who is around the same age as these players, really worth 47% to 67% more in cap hit? With these players signed through the prime of Marner’s career, we’d be paying Marner significantly more. Up to 47% more than M.Tkatchuk and 67% more than Reinhart until our cup window is long past.

IMO, agreeing to an average annual contract over $11.6 million for Marner would be cup suicide, especially with Matthews scheduled for another raise in a couple of years. One of these two overpaid players needs to be moved if we are serious about winning a cup and it isn’t going to be Matthews.
Where are the reports?
 
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What if Marner has yet another poor playoff performance?

It's kind of weird to criticize people for taking "this shit way too seriously" considering most people don't come here and make thousand of posts the way you've done. It also seems weird that you seem to care more about people's reactions to a potential Marner signing then about whether the Leafs win or lose. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just a bit ... weird.
A bit weird? How about off the freaking charts weird that most of the Marner defenders have that same stance. Win lose. Doesn't matter oh boy but Marner defense and off to the races we go.
 
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