Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[666]

Is that actually true? Very surprising, wouldn't have thought.

Looks like you're learning something.

Here are the only players who have enough time with and without Matthews to be able to draw conclusions.

last 3 full seasons:5v5

Some are a bit lite on data but its close.

 

[Antropovsky]

Bro did you become a leafs fan in 2022? No one did anything to Hyman. Hyman left for two reasons, 1. the leafs were not willing to give him an 8 year deal because he was coming off back to back ACL tears. And they didn’t want to give him about $500,000 more to secure the deal, the organization was very concerned the deal would age horrible. Marner and Matthews didn’t do anything to Hyman.

Is anything you say accurate? it was they couldn't afford him per Dubas.largely because of Marners outrageous contract. Not thet didn't want to give him the contract.

Dubas expressed understanding of
Hyman's decision, acknowledging the financial realities and the player's right to secure a contract that reflects his market value. He remarked, "Zach’s earned every dollar he’s going to get in free agency... we have certain limits that we can go to, and we've tried to extend ourselves as best we can.

 

[arso40]

Bro did you become a leafs fan in 2022? No one did anything to Hyman. Hyman left for two reasons, 1. the leafs were not willing to give him an 8 year deal because he was coming off back to back ACL tears. And they didn’t want to give him about $500,000 more to secure the deal, the organization was very concerned the deal would age horrible. Marner and Matthews didn’t do anything to Hyman.

Speak when spoken to kid do what your bird acc friend is doing and don’t respond to my post simple

 

[francis246]

Speak when spoken to kid do what your bird acc friend is doing and don’t respond to my post simple

You’re a clown for real

 

[francis246]

Is anything you say accurate? it was they couldn't afford him per Dubas.largely because of Marners outrageous contract. Not thet didn't want to give him the contract.

You’ve risen from the dead? Care to answer for the small sample size debacle? Or just gonna continue to ignore it?

 

[Antropovsky]

You’ve risen from the dead? Care to answer for the small sample size debacle? Or just gonna continue to ignore it?

What are you even talking about? What sample sizr debacle?

 

[francis246]

What are you even talking about? What sample sizr debacle?

It’s fine, nvm. Forget it.

 

[Antropovsky]

It’s fine, nvm. Forget it.

You tell me what an acceptable sample size is. Ive given 2000 min, 200 min and 1000 min, you and select other Marner supporters say that each sample size isnt appropriate. So you tell me what sample size is industry standard.

 

[francis246]

You tell me what an acceptable sample size is. Ive given 2000 min, 200 min and 1000 min, you and select other Marner supporters say that each sample size isnt appropriate. So you tell me what sample size is industry standard.

I was talking about the 5 v 5 stats you posted the other day, where you said Marner wasn’t effective with Matthews during the 2023/24 season. You just threw up Marner’s stats but did not provide any other linemates for comparison, or any other league wide assist to goal ratios for comparison of how Marner is doing vs others around the league, so we can validate the claim. But it’s all good, it’s not really worth arguing anymore. We already looked at the numbers and found that it wasn’t true, Marner was pretty efficient with Matthews, not only in comparison to other linemates of Matthews during that season, but league wide as well.

Some of us were wondering why you also chose 5v5 vs even strength as that purposefully left out 13 goals. But when we ran the numbers it was 41% efficiency both 5 v 5 and EV. Which turns out to be among the league leaders.

 

[Antropovsky]

I was talking about the 5 v 5 stats you posted the other day, where you said Marner wasn’t effective with Matthews during the 2023/24 season. You just threw up Marner’s stats but did not provide any other linemates for comparison, or any other league wide assist to goal ratios for comparison of how Marner is doing vs others around the league, so we can validate the claim. But it’s all good, it’s not really worth arguing anymore. We already looked at the numbers and found that it wasn’t true, Marner was pretty efficient with Matthews, not only in comparison to other linemates of Matthews during that season, but league wide as well.

Some of us were wondering why you also chose 5v5 vs even strength as that purposefully left out 13 goals. But when we ran the numbers it was 41% efficiency both 5 v 5 and EV. Which turns out to be among the league leaders.

This season Matthews has played 90% with Marner so no comparisons can be made.

However, ive shown many many times the comparison from the two seasons before this. Marner was Matthews linemate for roughly 50% of the time. Matthews stats without Marner were significantly better. I've posted the stats numerous times, even charts.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This season Matthews has played 90% with Marner so no comparisons can be made.

However, ive shown many many times the comparison from the two seasons before this. Marner was Matthews linemate for roughly 50% of the time. Matthews stats without Marner were significantly better. I've posted the stats numerous times, even charts.

You definitely post stats and charts, but when the numbers are checked they are often a miss representation. It is the same with some of your quotes. In fact, the few that I checked myself (during the 4 nations) turned out to be the opposite of your claim. I don't blame people for checking up on your agenda.

 

[Antropovsky]

You definitely post stats and charts, but when the numbers are checked they are often a miss representation. It is the same with some of your quotes. In fact, the few that I checked myself (during the 4 nations) turned out to be the opposite of your claim. I don't blame people for checking up on your agenda.

Haha do you have any evidence of this totally fabricated story? Often too... haha can't wait for you to say you've magically forgotten.

 

[francis246]

This season Matthews has played 90% with Marner so no comparisons can be made.

However, ive shown many many times the comparison from the two seasons before this. Marner was Matthews linemate for roughly 50% of the time. Matthews stats without Marner were significantly better. I've posted the stats numerous times, even charts.

We’re not talking about this season. You were very clear in your post. You said the 2023/24 season. Not 2024/25. During that season Matthews had multiple linemates which included Nylander, Bertuzzi, Marner, Domi and Knies.

Myself and others verified for that season and it turns out you were wrong. We did the math/research. It’s all posted in this thread.

 

[Antropovsky]

We’re not talking about this season. You were very clear in your post. You said the 2023/24 season. Not 2024/25. During that season Matthews had multiple linemates which included Nylander, Bertuzzi, Marner, Domi and Knies.

I just told you, Matthews stats last year and the year before are better without Marner on his line. He played approximately 50% of 5v5 without Marner. I've posted the stats many many times and graphs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Haha got any evidence of this totally fabricated story? What stats did I misrepresent?

I don't get your question? I don't think any story has been fabricated. I was referring to your stats that were debunked by the posters Francis246 and 666

 

[Antropovsky]

I don't get your question? I don't think any story has been fabricated. I was referring to your stats what were debunked by the posters Francis246 and 666

... which ones did I misrepresent? Which 4nation stat did you debunk that I apparently posted? Apparently im often debunked, but you can't even list one? You fact checked one all by yourself and you can't even remember what is was? Yea that's believable lol.

666 said I misrepresented my stats because I only post 5v5 when I should use even strength but "I debunked" that by posted a quote from the analytics community indicating its better to use 5v5 over even because it excludes stat padding like empty net points.

There is my proof... see how I can recall it?

 

[francis246]

I just told you, Matthews stats last year and the year before are better without Marner on his line. He played approximately 50% of 5v5 without Marner. I've posted the stats many many times and graphs.

Lmao I can’t. That’s not the claim you made.

5v5 Marner didn't contribute all that much last year to Matthews goals:

2023-2024 - Marner assists on Matthews goals
16 primary assists and 9 secondary assists for a total of 25 assists.

2024-2025 - Marner assists on Matthews goals
12 primary assists and 7 secondary assists for a total 19 total assists.

Also, Knies was a rookie last year and more mature and experienced this year compared to last. Also happens to be one of the top 5v5 goal scorers this year. So it more than likely balances out.

What's dropped the most for Marner this year vs last is his 5v5 goal totals. His g/60 over his career is up and down, a few years ago it was just 7%, last year it was 15%... this year it's 10%. Makes sense.

This was your post correct?

You said Marner didn’t contribute all that much to Matthews goals and we literally did the calculation and you were wrong. Marner contributed 41% of Matthews goals, which was higher than any other leaf and then when compared to other players who assisted on their Linemates 5 v 5 goals we found out that 41% is among the league leaders. So you were wrong.

Questions myself and others asked;

- if you’re going to make a claim like that, why didn’t you post any of Matthews other linemates assists numbers for comparison?

- why did you choose to use 5 v 5 instead of even strength leaving out 13 goals?

- I also mentioned last night that when you were to be called out on this, I have a gut feeling you will use an expected stat like A/60 for a guy like Domi to support your claim. But as others in the thread have said, is expected better than actual raw data in this circumstance?

 

[francis246]

... which ones did I misrepresent? Which 4nation stat did you debunk that I apparently posted? Apparently im often debunked, but you can't even list one? You fact checked one all by yourself and you can't even remember what is was? Yea that's believable lol.

666 said I misrepresented my stats because I only post 5v5 when I should use even strength but "I debunked" that by posted a quote from the analytics community indicating its better to use 5v5 over even because it excludes stat padding like empty net points.

There is my proof... see how I can recall it?

It also excludes 4 v 4 and 3v3. How many empty net goals did Matthews honestly score that you felt the need to use 5 v 5? It’s not making any sense why you would do that, unless you are trying to push a specific narrative. Any how it didn’t even mean much because the numbers worked out pretty similar 5 v 5 and EV

 

[Leaf Fans]

... which ones? Which 4nation stat did you debunk that I apparently posted? Apparnetly im often debunked, but you can't even list one? You fact checked one all by yourself and you can't even remember what is was? Yea that's believable lol.

666 said I misrepresented my stats because I only post 5v5 when I should use even strength but "I debunked" that by posted a quote from the analytics community indicating its better to use 5v5 over even because it excludes stat padding like empty net points.

There is my proof... now where is your of me misrepresenting?

Oh, you miss read my post. I debunked your quote (I wrote ". It is the same with some of your quotes. In fact, the few that I checked myself (during the 4 nations) turned out to be the opposite of your claim.") This was the quote by Cooper that you claimed was critical of Marner, but was actually praise of Marner.

 

[Antropovsky]

@francis246 and @Leaf Fans. Ill save this post so next time you play dumb to me posting these stats, ill just paste this chat.

Matthews 5v5 stats with and without Marner in 2023 and 2024. Notice how Matthews stats are significantly more productive when he was without Marner.

Looking forward to your responses:

2023 Season:
Total Minutes: 1145
Minutes with Marner: 539
% Minutes without Marner: 52.93%
P/60 with Marner: 2.00
Minutes without Marner: 606
P/60 without Marner: 3.36

2024 Season:
Total Minutes: 1241
Minutes with Marner: 720
% Minutes without Marner: 41.98%
P/60 with Marner: 2.75
Minutes without Marner: 521
P/60 without Marner: 3.23

 

[francis246]

@francis246 and @Leaf Fans. Ill save this post so next time you play dumb to me posting these stats, ill just paste this chat.

Matthews 5v5 stats with and without Marner in 2023 and 2024. Notice how Matthews stats are significantly more productive when he was without Marner.

Looking forward to your responses:

2023 Season:
Total Minutes: 1145
Minutes with Marner: 539
% Minutes without Marner: 52.93%
P/60 with Marner: 2.00
Minutes without Marner: 606
P/60 without Marner: 3.36

2024 Season:
Total Minutes: 1241
Minutes with Marner: 720
% Minutes without Marner: 41.98%
P/60 with Marner: 2.75
Minutes without Marner: 521
P/60 without Marner: 3.23


View attachment 997833

That was not your argument. And it’s fine. You can move the goal posts all you want.

You went from saying, Marner didn’t contribute much to Matthews goals(which is false and we’ve already done the calculations to show that), how can you argue it? Marner assisted on 41% of Matthews EV strength goals, higher than ANY OTHER LEAF. Also in line with other league leaders who have assisted to their linemates goals. 41% is among the highest. So your statement is just flat out wrong. As expected, since that position was challenged you are now changing your position to Matthews was more productive without Marner. That’s not what you initially said in the post. You got caught, it’s all good.

And as I predicted, in my post, you would defer to expected stats once called out LMAO you cannot make it up.

 

[thewave]

SN - Team being called soft greatest insult in Hockey.

SN - MM softest player worth top 5 NHL Salary.

Figure it out people.

 

[Antropovsky]

That was not your argument. And it’s fine. You can move the goal posts all you want.

You went from saying, Marner didn’t contribute much to Matthews goals(which is false and we’ve already done the calculations to show that), how can you argue it? Marner assisted on 41% of Matthews EV strength goals, higher than ANY OTHER LEAF. Also in line with other league leaders who have assisted to their linemates goals. 41% is among the highest. So your statement is just flat out wrong. As expected, since that position was challenged you are now changing your position to Matthews was more productive without Marner. That’s not what you initially said in the post. You got caught, it’s all good.

And as I predicted, in my post, you would defer to expected stats once called out LMAO you cannot make it up.

In 2023 and 2024 Matthews scored 64 5v5 goals.

Marner had a primary assist on JUST 15 of those 64 goals. Thats just 23%.

Meanwhile Matthews had a primary assist on 9 of Marners 31 5v5 goals, or 29%. So Matthews had more of an impact on Marner goals than Marner on Matthews goals. And certainly nobody has ever called Matthews the modern day Gretzky.

LMAO 41%... LMAO @francis246, you @Leaf Fans need to should stick to plus minus stats.

 

[arso40]

SN - Team being called soft greatest insult in Hockey.

SN - MM softest player worth top 5 NHL Salary.

Figure it out people.

Sn = sportsnet?

 

[thewave]

Sn = sportsnet?

Yes. During the game they mentioned soft teams. Other times obviously with Kyper etc. They just push narratives and help hype this team.

Obviously the Leafs are pushing Jerseys not winning. Ticket price hikes? No success..if they actually had success what double the price of regular season?