Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[notbias]

Keep hoping but it likely won't below that.

I don't mind him moving on... I've said this many times.

The biggest issue I have in this thread is that people's emotions are clouding their judgment.

He is a useful and good player, but yes, there is a point where every single player is paid too much for what they bring.

 

[Ports]

People here, myself included, want Marchand bc he wins, and perform when it matters.

Also, nobody is saying Marchand is a great guy. If anything, we all know he is far from it.

The team has too many “great guys” and not enough pr….s on the ice.

 

[Tak7]

Why does Marner usually win when he is on the ice every year?

Um. Huh?

He doesn't. Facts and reality, you say?

Games 5/6/7, combined:

18 games played
0 goals
6 assists

I guess some people can ignore these facts and draw their own conclusion, it just isn't based in reality.

You were saying?

 

[Trapper]

They are and I'll even add Tampa.

Now explain, Boston, Columbus, Montreal

The Refs?
The Goalies:
Sunspots.

 

[MCR74]

Um. Huh?

He doesn't. Facts and reality, you say?

Games 5/6/7, combined:

18 games played
0 goals
6 assists

l must've missed all those wins.

 

[notbias]

Um. Huh?

He doesn't. Facts and reality, you say?

Games 5/6/7, combined:

18 games played
0 goals
6 assists




You were saying?

Goal Percentage
2025 - 57.9%
2024 - 60%
2023 - 66.7%
2022 - 63.6%
2021 - 75%
2020 - 25%
2019 - 44.4%
2018 - 66.7%
2017 - 50%

Looking through this... the bottom 6 is terrible every single year, they are always getting scored on more than scoring.

You can isolate for single games if you'd like.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

They are and I'll even add Tampa.

Now explain, Boston, Columbus, Montreal

I can't.

 

[IPS]

Looking through this... the bottom 6 is terrible every single year, they are always getting scored on more than scoring.

Yeah if only the top guys could take a little less $ so the team could actually build a bottom 6 eh???

 

[Tak7]

Looking through this... the bottom 6 is terrible every single year, they are always getting scored on more than scoring.

Weird, huh? Almost like there was no money to spend on the bottom 6 because certain guys held the team to ransom for big deals they didn't deserve, nor live up to.

You can isolate for single games if you'd like.

Isolating for single games is unwise.

But looking at a large sample size of games spread over many, many years provides a pretty accurate picture.

Just in case math isn't your strong suit, I crunched his production numbers in critical playoff games and extrapolated them across an 82-game season.

The results? 0 goals

 

[Ports]

Do you realize that Connor has won as many League Championships as Mitch. We;ve all has the misfortune of listening to you whine for a year over how Mitch needs to go because he disappears when it matters and so does McDavid. Not sure you even know what point you are trying to make anymore, you all over the place...

McDavid doesn’t disappear in the playoffs . He’s been instrumental in taking his team to the cup finals two years in a row, won the Conn Smythe trophy and lead the league in playoff scoring three times. Sure he hasn’t won a cup but that’s because they have terrible goaltending and played the best playoff team in the post cap era in the finals. If Marner had this success and taken less money on a long term contract to help build a cup contender he would have a statue on Legends Row. Comparing Marner to McDavid is delusional.

 

[ACC1224]

Goal Percentage
2025 - 57.9%
2024 - 60%
2023 - 66.7%
2022 - 63.6%
2021 - 75%
2020 - 25%
2019 - 44.4%
2018 - 66.7%
2017 - 50%

Looking through this... the bottom 6 is terrible every single year, they are always getting scored on more than scoring.

You can isolate for single games if you'd like.

Thought I saw a stat that showed Floridas bottom guys were paid less than Toronto's .
I may have misheard though.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kucherov has 0 points in game 7s... bigger loser than Marner I guess... Or, is it different for some players?

Changing the subject suggests that you're out of arguments.

I mentioned the 4 Nations where he was arguably the best player in the biggest game, but I know you ignored that because it doesn't help your argument.

Irrelevance deserves to be ignored.

After the first few games of the playoffs, Marner plays at maybe a 3rd line winger level. Even you can't dispute this simple fact so you keep changing the subject other players, other levels of hockey (even junior LOL) but this is about Marner in the playoffs.

Up to this point in his career, all signs point to one simple fact - Marner's a loser. It's not just how he withers 4 games into the playoffs either, it's the way he carries himself, the way he talks, the way he acts, the way he whines and doesn't take responsibility. Everything that we know about him dovetails with this conclusion - he's a loser.

 

[notbias]

Thought I saw a stat that showed Floridas bottom guys were paid less than Toronto's .
I may have misheard though.

It would not shock me... they spend a lot on goaltending.

The Leafs (all GMs) have chosen poorly for the bottom 6, it has been a bigger issue than anything else.

 

[MCR74]

Yeah if only the top guys could take a little less $ so the team could actually build a bottom 6 eh???

That just isn't done.

 

[notbias]

Weird, huh? Almost like there was no money to spend on the bottom 6 because certain guys held the team to ransom for big deals they didn't deserve, nor live up to.

They had $4 million in the press box and a 4th line C making almost $4 million...

They choose poorly (all GMs) for the bottom 6.

Isolating for single games is unwise.

But looking at a large sample size of games spread over many, many years provides a pretty accurate picture.

Just in case math isn't your strong suit, I crunched his production numbers in critical playoff games and extrapolated them across an 82-game season.

The results? 0 goals

That's crazy, crunch Kucherov's in game 7s only...

 

[notbias]

That just isn't done.

That's not an insignificant spend for the bottom 6... especially since some of those players were in the pressbox and Laughton is really making $3 million.

 

[Stephen]

World Championship is a useless tournament, especially relative to the 4 Nations...

View attachment 1054372




Kucherov has 0 points in game 7s... bigger loser than Marner I guess... Or, is it different for some players?

I mentioned the 4 Nations where he was arguably the best player in the biggest game, but I know you ignored that because it doesn't help your argument.

End of the day, what makes your vigorous defense of Marner untenable is you have to go through the entire Leafs core and then a tour of the league to point out others shortcomings even when they have multiple Stanley Cups.

 

[notbias]

End of the day, what makes your vigorous defense of Marner untenable is you have to go through the entire Leafs core and then a tour of the league to point out others shortcomings even when they have multiple Stanley Cups.

You have to isolate for specific games or bring up team accomplishments.

Marner has the most points and usually wins when on the ice.

Those are the facts.

You generally post your opinion as fact, but it's not the same.

 

[Ports]

Marner aside. I have no problem with teams signing players to shorter contracts. Less risk that the player underperforms their contract and more flexibility to change the team makeup if they don’t win. Also, shorter contracts mean more motivated players. The antithesis is a fat, unmotivated Morgan Rielly. We’d all be happier if Rielly had been signed for three years instead of eight. If the player performs and the team has success, they likely re-sign anyway. If the team doesn’t have success, maybe the player leaves which motivates teams to do everything they can to have success. Shanny tied up the core and his own hands for seven years and they won two playoff rounds.

 

[Stephen]

You have to isolate for specific games or bring up team accomplishments.

Marner has the most points and usually wins when on the ice.

Those are the facts.

You generally post your opinion as fact, but it's not the same.

I’ll just put it bluntly for you.

Marner is a loser in the sport.

Your defense of Marner is based more on the idea that everyone else is a loser too if you look closely enough, and not that he’s a winner.

You cite examples. John Tavares. Auston Matthews. William Nylander. All losers.

Further afield, Nikita Kucherov is deep down a loser too. Whomever else pops into your head. Losers. McDavid and Draisaitl too. Losers.

So what you are in fact doing is not saying Marner is a winner. You know he’s not a winner. What you’re appealing to is a sense that everyone is hypocritically a loser too.

 

[shaner8989]

Um. Huh?

He doesn't. Facts and reality, you say?

Games 5/6/7, combined:

18 games played
0 goals
6 assists




You were saying?

What an abysmal stat line

 

[notbias]

I’ll just put it bluntly for you.

Marner is a loser in the sport.

Relative to?

You? A winner.

Maroon? A loser.

McDavid? Tied.

He's won more in his hockey career than most in the NHL.

Your defense of Marner is based more on the idea that everyone else is a loser too if you look closely enough, and not that he’s a winner.

You cite examples. John Tavares. Auston Matthews. William Nylander. All losers.

I am arguing that Marner doesn't perform as poorly as some think.

I think the label "loser" is applied to try to say he is the problem, that's the issue.

Further afield, Nikita Kucherov is deep down a loser too. Whomever else pops into your head. Losers. McDavid and Draisaitl too. Losers.

Kucherov is not a loser, but when people cite isolated games, I like to bring him up to show teams can win even if players underperform in the most important games.

McDavid and Draisaitl have not won... losers, right?

So what you are in fact doing is not saying Marner is a winner. You know he’s not a winner. What you’re appealing to is a sense that everyone is hypocritically a loser too.

It depends on who he is compared to.

Being a winner is relative, and most of the arguments that Marner is a loser are around him not being able to help the team win, which is a team achievement, but he has a longer history of winning than Nylander/Matthews, so maybe he is not the problem.

To be honest, I don't know what your point was.

You are all over the place.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner aside. I have no problem with teams signing players to shorter contracts. Less risk that the player underperforms their contract and more flexibility to change the team makeup if they don’t win. Also, shorter contracts mean more motivated players. The antithesis is a fat, unmotivated Morgan Rielly. We’d all be happier if Rielly had been signed for three years instead of eight. If the player performs and the team has success, they likely re-sign anyway. If the team doesn’t have success, maybe the player leaves which motivates teams to do everything they can to have success. Shanny tied up the core and his own hands for seven years and they won two playoff rounds.

100%

It's not hard to envision Nylander filling the Rielly role after a few seasons, maybe sooner.

 

[mogs]

What an abysmal stat line

But according to some in here, he "wins" when he's on the ice.

 

[MCR74]

What an abysmal stat line

And it warrants a raise. Imagine that.