Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[MCR74]

Dreadful against Columbus, Florida, Montreal and Boston, couple of decent series vs Tampa where he padded his stats in blowout games, a nice little series against Ottawa (fell off later on though, thankfully Willy stepped up and won it for us before we had a tie series on our hands), and another dreadful series against Florida.

Marner is the first domino to fall in a loser core. They'll all be gone soon enough.

Forgot about Columbus.

Yeah, we need less of that.

 

[thewave]

Dreadful against Columbus, Florida, Montreal and Boston, couple of decent series vs Tampa where he padded his stats in blowout games, a nice little series against Ottawa (fell off later on though, thankfully Willy stepped up and won it for us before we had a tie series on our hands), and another dreadful series against Florida.

Marner is the first domino to fall in a loser core. They'll all be gone soon enough.

Nylanders not a loser. Probably keep him around to run the team.

 

[notbias]

Nylander won gold at the World Championships.

If you insight on playing this silly game? Nylander has won more. The Worlds are far more prestigious than the 4 Nations.

Go start a poll and see which is harder to win... the one where Sweden iced a team without all their best players and placed 1st, or the one where they used their best players and came in 3rd/4th (don't remember or care).

I have a feeling that the World Championship will lose fairly easily.

I see two posts from people putting the team first, and wanting to move beyond something that clearly hasn't worked.

What's so confusing for you here?

They both said that they wouldn't take Marner at any cap hit... that is not putting the team first...

Your definition of a fan is just someone who aligns with your opinion, and it appears your opinion is terrible if you agree with them.

There is a price where Marner doesn't make sense.

Don’t forget his GTHL and Jr A championships and grade 6 spelling bee silver medal.

"hurr durrr, I can't read"... he's won more as an adult (I mentioned this) and throughout hockey than anyone of the core (minus Tavares).

What had MM won?
The 4 Nations? Where any Canadians Hockey players being selected would had won.

He won when he was in Jrs?

They are all betas chokers and MM is one of them.
I can’t wait for the rest to be former Leafs, bc collectively they just can’t win.
Most importantly, they actually believe they could if only the goalie can make all the saves, supporting players scoring more goals than them, the coach knows how to win in playoffs, fans cheer for them even if they choke in playoffs and most importantly if the opposing team sucks.

Marner is arguably the main reason Canada won this year.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

 

[Hellcat]

I think Vegas will make room for him. It's probably the perfect spot for him. He'll be insulated with winners and will have no pressure but to go out and play.

Seems to be headed in that direction. Rumors are Karlsson & Pietrangelo will be the casualties to make space for Mitch, not sure how they can move Pietro as he is on IR but that seems to be the most told rumor from the insiders I follow.

 

[IPS]

"hurr durrr, I can't read"... he's won more as an adult (I mentioned this) and throughout hockey than anyone of the core (minus Tavares).

Tavares is a great example to show that international success means precisely jack shit in relation to NHL success.

Was mentioned in another thread that his ES production in the last 4 playoff series is like 10 ES points over 82 games. Easily the worst playoff player in the league relative to their paycheck.

 

[MCR74]

Who gives a shit about these international tournaments when the f***ing guy doesn't bring it in the playoffs?

 

[notbias]

Tavares is a great example to show that international success means precisely jack shit in relation to NHL success.

Was mentioned in another thread that his ES production in the last 4 playoff series is like 10 ES points over 82 games. Easily the worst playoff player in the league relative to their paycheck.

That is 2.5 playoffs... There is a reason they used 2.5 playoffs.

Not saying he has been good, but just there is a reason they did that.

This all started because Marner was called a loser, but he is the winningest out of all the core players on this team (minus Tavares).

Just posting facts and people seem to be upset.

 

[Hellcat]

Nylanders not a loser. Probably keep him around to run the team.

Their all loser's...

​

 

[IPS]

That is 2.5 playoffs... There is a reason they used 2.5 playoffs.

Not saying he has been good, but just there is a reason they did that.

This all started because Marner was called a loser, but he is the winningest out of all the core players on this team (minus Tavares).

Just posting facts and people seem to be upset.

Well being fair Marner's only been a loser in the NHL. But I'm not putting much stock into international success with Team Canada, there's many scrubs around the league who can be "successful" with Team Canada.

 

[notbias]

Who gives a shit about these international tournaments when the f***ing guy doesn't bring it in the playoffs?

Well being fair Marner's only been a loser in the NHL. But I'm not putting much stock into international success with Team Canada, there's many scrubs around the league who can be "successful" with Team Canada.

He has won as much as the best player in the league, but it's hard to win, so that is not a knock.

 

[Tak7]

Go start a poll and see which is harder to win... the one where Sweden iced a team without all their best players and placed 1st, or the one where they used their best players and came in 3rd/4th (don't remember or care).

I have a feeling that the World Championship will lose fairly easily.

...you really want to do this, huh?

The World Championships isn't a gimmicky tournament like the Four Nations. It's played every year, involves many more countries, and has a much higher reputation than an in-season tournament that was designed to replace All-Star Weekend.

The Four Nation was fantastic. But stop pretending like it was some sort of crown jewel up against the annual international tournament. It isn't.

They both said that they wouldn't take Marner at any cap hit... that is not putting the team first...

There is a price where Marner doesn't make sense.

If your fundamental beliefs are:

1. Your team can't win a cup with Mitch Marner
2. Your team's culture / attitude / DNA changes once Mitch Marner leaves

Then it absolutely makes sense to let him go, and be okay, with letting him go. Again, fans putting the team first instead of Marner.

"hurr durrr, I can't read"... he's won more as an adult (I mentioned this) and throughout hockey than anyone of the core (minus Tavares).

...how old was he when he won the memorial cup?

 

[MCR74]

View attachment 1054519



He has won as much as the best player in the league, but it's hard to win, so that is not a knock.

l'm sure he'll milk all those useless wins to sign his next backbreaker deal.

 

[egd27]

For the first time in years I watched all of the playoffs after the Leafs were eliminated. The two best forwards in the league (McDavid and Draisatl) were completely invisible in key games against Florida. Maybe, just maybe Florida is really good at shutting down key players.

They are and I'll even add Tampa.

Now explain, Boston, Columbus, Montreal

 

[notbias]

...you really want to do this, huh?

The World Championships isn't a gimmicky tournament like the Four Nations. It's played every year, involves many more countries, and has a much higher reputation than an in-season tournament that was designed to replace All-Star Weekend.

The Four Nation was fantastic. But stop pretending like it was some sort of crown jewel up against the annual international tournament. It isn't.

Just answer this.

Which tournament got countries to bring their best players?

Which tournament did Marner win and Nylander didn't?

Why are we pretending the World Championship means anything?

If your fundamental beliefs are:

1. Your team can't win a cup with Mitch Marner
2. Your team's culture / attitude / DNA changes once Mitch Marner leaves

Then it absolutely makes sense to let him go, and be okay, with letting him go. Again, fans putting the team first instead of Marner.


...how old was he when he won the memorial cup?

If those are your beliefs, you are not someone who uses critical thinking, and I assume something is clouding your judgment.

 

[Tak7]

If those are your beliefs, you are not someone who uses critical thinking, and I assume something is clouding your judgment.

There's a mountainous 9 years worth of clear-cut evidence that emphatically draws it's own conclusions.

At this point, if you're not accepting those conclusions, it's delusion on your part.

Marner's game is like a set of jingling keys - it only impresses babies.

 

[Ports]

Unpopular opinion (obviously), but I genuinely think they are operating like winning is important.

The issue is they don't have a bloody clue how.

They spend to the cap every year.
They spend big money on their staff.
They spend big money on their amenities.
They spend big money on all sorts of services and tools for the players.

They're trying to win, they just don't have any sort of plan or idea on how. When you run your hockey operation in a season-by-season basis, this is what you end up with.

On the Matthews thing - would it surprise anyone if Marner signed a 2 year contract, and then both Matthews and Marner hit UFA again in 2027? Potentially even reuniting on the same team?

It would surprise me if any team that wanted to challenge for a cup signed both of them for $30M+.

 

[notbias]

There's a mountainous 9 years worth of clear-cut evidence that emphatically draws it's own conclusions.

At this point, if you're not accepting those conclusions, it's delusion on your part.

Marner's game is like a set of jingling keys - it only impresses babies.

Why does Marner usually win when he is on the ice every year?

Why is he the leading scorer on the team?

I hate that these are facts because we are losing him, but even when Marner's line is not scoring much, they are not being scored on either.

I guess some people can ignore these facts and draw their own conclusion, it just isn't based in reality.

 

[MCR74]

There's a mountainous 9 years worth of clear-cut evidence that emphatically draws it's own conclusions.

At this point, if you're not accepting those conclusions, it's delusion on your part.

Marner's game is like a set of jingling keys - it only impresses babies.

You're wasting your time. We should sign him to the absolute max, then when the cap goes up, sign him to the absolute max again.

Am l doing this right?

 

[notbias]

You're wasting your time. We should sign him to the absolute max, then when the cap goes up, sign him to the absolute max again.

Am l doing this right?

No, there are numbers that makes sense and numbers that don't, that is every player.

The issue is people pretending that Marner never helped this team, their blind hatred gets in the way of critical thinking, it's sad that this happens to adults.

 

[Ports]

He is hedging his bet. He is hoping another team will make him a big offer then he will run back to the Leafs hoping they will match it. He probably wants to stay a leaf

Let’s hope not.

 

[MCR74]

No, there are numbers that makes sense and numbers that don't, that is every player.

The issue is people pretending that Marner never helped this team, their blind hatred gets in the way of critical thinking, it's sad that this happens to adults.

And what are those numbers? Anything above $11.5M doesn't make sense.

 

[notbias]

And what are those numbers? Anything above $11.5M doesn't make sense.

Treliving thought 13.5 was a fair number, I would hope it'd be below that.

I think I'd be fine with 12.5.

The bigger issue for me, is I'd like to see them roll 3 scoring lines since depth scoring every year is an issue, and if they aren't prepared to construct a good team, then I don't think it really matters.

There was like 4 million in the press box this year, anyone who is upset about Marner or anyone being overpaid a million should be calling for Tre to be fired.

 

[leafs in five]

View attachment 1054503

Huge

 

[MCR74]

Treliving thought 13.5 was a fair number, I would hope it'd be below that.

I think I'd be fine with 12.5.

The bigger issue for me, is I'd like to see them roll 3 scoring lines since depth scoring every year is an issue, and if they aren't prepared to construct a good team, then I don't think it really matters.

Keep hoping but it likely won't below that.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Defending Marner's playoffs performance by comparing him to the rest of the core is like arguing over whether cat or dog crap smells worse.

Meanwhile ignoring the fact it's still shit either way. Maybe one stinks a little less than other. But at the end of the day they both stink.

These guys have all been bad for so long there really is no defending any of them anymore.

Maybe the team does take a step back losing Marner. Or maybe they win the cup. We don't know what will happen.

What we do know is if they keep him they'll never rise above being mediocre.

Just because you're used to mediocrity doesn't mean you should accept it. Setting a low bar isn't gonna help them win. Other teams and their fans have higher standards and so should we.

Expect better than this crap.