Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[LeafEgo]

At the end of the season I thought there was something to the cheap theatrics and run it back hypothesis but maybe the Leafs weren’t amenable and that caused a real rift.

Whatever it is that he wants hindsight tells me he could have just asked the Leafs for the exit door if he wanted it or if he wanted an exotic short contract he could have asked for that and grinded them down. Good faith negotiating in any case probably would have saved him a lot of reputational damage. Whatever I guess. Price to pay to stick it to someone I guess.

The storylines on Marner have been spun nine ways from Sunday. Given what we actually know from the source, I don't know why there has been so much confusion over the last year.

He's going to get signed by training camp, he's going to be signed early season, are they really not negotiating?, definitely signed by the tradline, woah the Ranta thing was a shock, now a deal won't be reached, Marner isn't a happy camper? Wait I thought he loved being a Leaf? He's been disrespected?

I've yet to be suprised.

Last offseason, post playoff disaster, it was made pretty clear that Tre didn't have him in the future plans - may have been the case since he joined, who knows. Follow that and everything up till now makes perfect sense.

To my knowledge Tre only once made some ambigous positive comments after the last tdl closed (final avenue shut) and the team was getting ready for the playoffs - pretty unusual no? What more could he have realistically done to tilt his hand publicly?

Marner and camp are now in a frenzy, go figure. Marner and camp arn't handling it well, almost seems emotional, news at 11.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't care that Marner is not coming back, I just find it funny how much he gets labelled things like "loser" when he is the winningest out of all of them.

Change is at least interesting, so I am all for it, but I hope they improve, because I have my doubts.

Also, they aren't even SJ.

What had MM won?
The 4 Nations? Where any Canadians Hockey players being selected would had won.

He won when he was in Jrs?

They are all betas chokers and MM is one of them.
I can’t wait for the rest to be former Leafs, bc collectively they just can’t win.
Most importantly, they actually believe they could if only the goalie can make all the saves, supporting players scoring more goals than them, the coach knows how to win in playoffs, fans cheer for them even if they choke in playoffs and most importantly if the opposing team sucks.

 

[Antropovsky]

you guys getting a marner mighty duck jersey?

He would never go there… there’s no one to leech points from. For all the complaining he does about not getting the respect he deserves in Toronto and not getting the “C”, he doesn’t have the self-confidence to join a team where he’d be the undisputed #1 and actually have to lead. He needs to hide behind a real star.

Over the past 5 years or so, Marner had something like 2.16 points per 60 with Tavares vs 3.34 points/60 with Matthews.

2.16 points/60 is in the mid 50s of the league over the past 3 seasons. Not very good. Its Matthews that boosts his stats into top 10 in league. While Matthews stats stay pretty much the same whether hes with Marner or not and in some categories improve.

His points with Tavares were often when Matthews line got the opposing team's top matchup.

He is gonna be in a heap of trouble if hes not with a very very good forward.

 

[ZEBROA]

FFS we have lost against finalist like forever. We never had the team to reach the final. Mitch is definitly good enough to be on a stanley cup team. Leafs never been one, thats the problem. The Tavares signing was the most idiotic choice . To not go by need when you sign is stupid. Only in draft u go by skill unless its mcdavid.

Dont want Mitch back, but he is not the problem. Leafs will not automaticly be better without him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Okay, well, let me educate you... Memorial Cup and 4 Nations is more than anyone else in the core has won.

View attachment 1054339

Don’t forget his GTHL and Jr A championships and grade 6 spelling bee silver medal.

 

[Craig Button]

Don’t forget his GTHL and Jr A championships and grade 6 spelling bee silver medal.

Honestly for hockey players that's actually harder to do than winning the Stanley Cup

 

[Martin Skoula]

Honestly for hockey players that's actually harder to do than winning the Stanley Cup

The crazy thing is he would have won gold too but unfortunately the last word was “intense”.

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

Ok, I have to rant. We are better with Marner, but only at a reasonable cap hit. If Marner signs elsewhere he is a f___ing weasel and deserves to become the most hated former Leaf in history. He is either greedy, a prima donna or both. I for one will throw my Marner jersey on the ice the first time I see him play again. I dont want to hear this BS that he has earned to do whatever he wants. Where is the loyalty? The Leafs have given him everything he wanted: fire Babcock, play with Mathew's no matter how well it works, and a f__king ridiculous $10.9M per year contract for a measly 6 years. At least Mathews re-signed to give the Leafs 9 years over two contracts without any drama. Nylander was paid the least of the three, yet signed up for 8 more years. Tavaraes made it clear that he wants to stay. But not Marner: 'Give me 2-3 years so I can cash in again; who cares about winning a cup. I know that every dollar I take prevents the team from icing a cup competitive team, but i want every penny I can get'. The contrast with the Panthers players virtually begging to come back is just sickening. If Marner leaves, he should be vilified relentlessly.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Ok, I have to rant. We are better with Marner, but only at a reasonable cap hit. If Marner signs elsewhere he is a f___ing weasel and deserves to become the most hated former Leaf in history. He is either greedy, a prima donna or both. I for one will throw my Marner jersey on the ice the first time I see him play again. I dont want to hear this BS that he has earned to do whatever he wants. Where is the loyalty? The Leafs have given him everything he wanted: fire Babcock, play with Mathew's no matter how well it works, and a f__king ridiculous $10.9M per year contract for a measly 6 years. At least Mathews re-signed to give the Leafs 9 years over two contracts without any drama. Nylander was paid the least of the three, yet signed up for 8 more years. Tavaraes made it clear that he wants to stay. But not Marner: 'Give me 2-3 years so I can cash in again; who cares about winning a cup. I know that every dollar I take prevents the team from icing a cup competitive team, but i want every penny I can get'. The contrast with the Panthers players virtually begging to come back is just sickening. If Marner leaves, he should be vilified relentlessly.

Lol, yup. Smh if the bolded rumour is true. You don't build championship teams with core people like this, just as how you don't build successful companies like this. Mercenaries over missionaries only work when these gun for hires are supplementary to an intensely loyal core that have a shared vision of collective success.

I can't think of too many successful cup winners in this century in which your #1-3 players were mercenary UFA signings. Hossa was a UFA on a 12 year deal and it panned out in Year 4 for him. Kadri was traded to the Avalanche. In fact, I literally can't think of a single example. Can anyone think of one?

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

Lol, yup. Smh if the bolded rumour is true. You don't build championship teams with core people like this, just as how you don't build successful companies like this. Mercenaries over missionaries only work when these gun for hires are supplementary to an intensely loyal core that have a shared vision of collective success.

I can't think of too many successful cup winners in this century in which your #1-3 players were mercenary UFA signings. Hossa was a UFA on a 12 year deal and it panned out in Year 4 for him. Kadri was traded to the Avalanche. In fact, I literally can't think of a single example. Can anyone think of one?

Alex Pietrangelo signed with Vegas as a UFA in 2020 and then won the cup in 2023. But your right that this is a rarity.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Alex Pietrangelo signed with Vegas as a UFA in 2020 and then won the cup in 2023. But your right that this is a rarity.

yep, and Pietrangelo: 1) signed for seven years; 2) wanted to stay in St. Louis; 3) negotiated with St. Louis throughout the entire season hoping to stay; 4) wanted a full no-movement clause because of his four children who were under the age of 3, and wanted stability for his family.

This is basically the anti-Marner lol, especially if the purported 2-3 year deal is what Marner is genuinely looking for.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Now 10 years later the world recognizes how poor a decision that was, as it achieved a mere 2 playoff series wins and a hostile departure leaving the Leafs nothing.

It was obvious he needed to be traded.
Before the NMC.

Shanahan was a massive failure

 

[HamiltonNHL]

People wanted us to be Chicago when we started this build, but we are San Jose.

Tavares accelerated the rebuild.

Loser .org, loser rebuild.

Shanahan disaster

 

[Trapper]

Tavares accelerated the rebuild.

Loser .org, loser rebuild.

Shanahan disaster

Actually he exposed it. 4 high priced forwards couldn’t win a round, but management by refused to see it. They made no effort to adjust from it and balance the team. If you are talking about a DNA change 10 years later, you failed. The first DNA that needs change is management.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Nothing. I’d get rid of them too but we’ve spent 10 years arguing about just getting rid of one of the core, it’s a chore discussing getting rid of them all.
I give it 3 years until Matthews leaves then we can start the rebuild. People wanted us to be Chicago when we started this build, but we are San Jose.

We wish we were San Jose.

 

[thewave]

He called himself a “maybe a risky pick”. Which means he’s conscious of the faith the organization put into him, and yet has chosen to lay blame on the Leafs for a hazy sense of mistreatment.

Even his father spoke about how Connor McDavid cast such a long shadow over Mitch and other 2015 picks that he didn’t have the same pedigree as a top pick.

All the while he’s never earned less than 8 figures on a non ELC deal and given 9 years of runway to do something special. So much for mistreatment.

End of the day people don’t like him because he’s the hometown kid who turned out to be th hometown brat. He hasn’t conducted himself well in the heat of battle, showing fragility, smallness and inability to compete. And his party has chosen to blame the hometown team and made a big ugly show about what unique and creative ways he’s going to chase the money. You go chase the money, Mitch.

Sums it up perfectly

 

[thewave]

Actually he exposed it. 4 high priced forwards couldn’t win a round, but management by refused to see it. They made no effort to adjust from it and balance the team. If you are talking about a DNA change 10 years later, you failed. The first DNA that needs change is management.

The DNA was proven tainted in the MTL series. We all knew then, I mean even I could argue my former position (never being a Mitch believer) prior to that series. Afterwords though? Nope, maybe a little go along to get along when things are going good.

Just another Leafy chapter.

 

[thewave]

The storylines on Marner have been spun nine ways from Sunday. Given what we actually know from the source, I don't know why there has been so much confusion over the last year.

He's going to get signed by training camp, he's going to be signed early season, are they really not negotiating?, definitely signed by the tradline, woah the Ranta thing was a shock, now a deal won't be reached, Marner isn't a happy camper? Wait I thought he loved being a Leaf? He's been disrespected?

I've yet to be suprised.

Last offseason, post playoff disaster, it was made pretty clear that Tre didn't have him in the future plans - may have been the case since he joined, who knows. Follow that and everything up till now makes perfect sense.

To my knowledge Tre only once made some ambigous positive comments after the last tdl closed (final avenue shut) and the team was getting ready for the playoffs - pretty unusual no? What more could he have realistically done to tilt his hand publicly?

Marner and camp are now in a frenzy, go figure. Marner and camp arn't handling it well, almost seems emotional, news at 11.

The frenzy is because they lost the narrative. People and teams are talking along the lines of playoff choker. Not a goal scorer. Not worth the Rantanen contract who just had an amazing playoff.

When you lose the narrative, you lose the money. GMs don't want to go down in history being the one that overpaid a playoff paperweight and handcuffing the team etc.

Mitch wanting 2 years deal at 12 to prove himself is high risk on his own part and looks even more greedy.

I think we could get him without a NMC and maybe just a limited trade clause. Then we can flip that for assets. It's what I would do. Give home the 1st year NMC and after that we trade

Oh well

 

[MCR74]

What had MM won?
The 4 Nations? Where any Canadians Hockey players being selected would had won.

He won when he was in Jrs?

They are all betas chokers and MM is one of them.
I can’t wait for the rest to be former Leafs, bc collectively they just can’t win.
Most importantly, they actually believe they could if only the goalie can make all the saves, supporting players scoring more goals than them, the coach knows how to win in playoffs, fans cheer for them even if they choke in playoffs and most importantly if the opposing team sucks.

Yep. That's Marner's definition of success right there.

 

[Nineteen67]

Mitch wanting 2 years deal at 12 to prove himself is high risk on his own part and looks even more greedy.

Another audition, with another team?

 

[thewave]

Another audition, with another team?

I would pay him 13m x 2 to stay and no NMC. I would then retain 3m for 2 years and trade him. Best deal for both parties

 

[Nineteen67]

I would pay him 13m x 2 to stay and no NMC. I would then retain 3m for 2 years and trade him. Best deal for both parties

Sure, but he’s not doing any of that.

 

[thewave]

Sure, but he’s not doing any of that.

Yes he will. If his offers are 11m max, we pay 13m. Give him a year 1 Limited trade or no trade if you want. Remember 13m we retain on and trade to low tax state is big savings.

Ie. Toronto signs 3x13m with no Protection and does a sign and trade to Vegas, retaining 2m a year for 3 years and we get a good asset(s) back.

 

[MCR74]

Honestly, management should tell him, Paul and Ferris to f*** off and not let the door hit them on the way out. Giving Marner $13M for two years won't improve ours or any other team. He's not worth the money.

 

[thewave]

Honestly, management should tell him, Paul and Ferris to f*** off and not let the door hit them on the way out. Giving Marner $13M for two years won't improve ours or any other team. He's not worth the money.

The only play here to not destroy our team and make the greedy shit money is a short term sign and trade deal that we retain on.

It's the only thing we can do.