Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yes, however the way around this obstacle is the allow teams to approach him in advance with the Leafs giving permission in advance of July 1st.

Any successful conversation could return a small return for that right (ie draft pick) ,however the one that successfully ends in a Sign and Trade where Leafs can give Marner's new team an 8th contract year instead of just 7 as a UFA, would also permit the exchange of other assets to complete.

Treliving successfully orchestrated a Sign and Trade in the past with Matthew Tkachuk (RFA), when he was still with Calgary, and it returned assets such as Huberdeau and Mackenzie Weagar etc, Any team that was willing and wanting to sign Marner to 8 years at their rate $$, approved by Marner and also would need to create a lot of cap space in the process to absorb the new deal.

It has been suggested after the playoffs are over that Florida Panthers sign pending UFA Sam Bennett to example : 8 X $8mil deal (Leafs terms) and then deal him to Toronto for a resigned Marner on their terms of 8 X $12 mil. Both teams getting a player locked up long-term for what would have been a pending UFA and each player receives an 8th year on their deal instead of 7 at agreed amount. Everyone is happy.!!!

I don't think this is correct. Pretty sure the Leafs can trade negotiating rights to another team without his input.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I don't think this is correct. Pretty sure the Leafs can trade negotiating rights to another team without his input.

Trading negotiation rights is trading the player.

 

[Confucius]

Trading negotiation rights is trading the player.

No, the player would have to agree to a trade. Player doesn’t have to do anything if another team wishes to negotiate with him, he could always say go away.

The weird thing is we would be trading our right to negotiate with the player.

 

[Trapper]

Trading negotiation rights is trading the player.

Marner can only sign a 7 year deal max as a UFA.
If he wants to sign for 8 years, the Leafs would need to trade his rights to that team before July 1st.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

No, the player would have to agree to a trade. Player doesn’t have to do anything if another team wishes to negotiate with him, he could always say go away.

The weird thing is we would be trading our right to negotiate with the player.

But that's about the best we can do to get any return on him right now. And it also doesn't prevent us from signing him on July 1. Anyone can. It would just mean we could get like a 4th rounder (wishful thinking to be honest) so a team like Vegas would have exclusive rights to negotiate with him without it being considered tampering. Probably none of this happens, just having fun throwing ideas around.

And again, I'm almost positive a team can trade negotiating rights without the player's consent.

 

[Leaf Fans]

No, the player would have to agree to a trade. Player doesn’t have to do anything if another team wishes to negotiate with him, he could always say go away.

The weird thing is we would be trading our right to negotiate with the player.

Of course he would have to agree to any trade.

 

[Mess]

Marner can only sign a 7 year deal max as a UFA.
If he wants to sign for 8 years, the Leafs would need to trade his rights to that team before July 1st.

I really don't see any World were Marner plans on helping the Leafs out in any way.

The 8th year is really the only bargaining chip BT has at this point.

What has Marner ever done anything that helped the team out?

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he signed in Carolina as a UFA after using his NMC to block the Rantanen trade, that would have seen him ending up the same place. Now by signing there he guarantees the Leafs get nothing in trade and nothing as a UFA. It would be quite the fitting ending to his legacy in Toronto.

 

[Trapper]

Of course he would have to agree to any trad

I really don't see any World were Marner plans on helping the Leafs out in any way.

The 8th year is really the only bargaining chip BT has at this point.

What has Marner ever done anything that helped the team out?

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he signed in Carolina as a UFA after using his NMC to block the Rantanen trade, that would have seen him ending up the same place. Now by signing there he guarantees the Leafs get nothing in trade and nothing as a UFA. It would be quite the fitting ending to his legacy in Toronto.

Also nothing makes me believe Marner wants an 8 year deal. The school of Marleau keeps 4/5 year deals so you can always maximize your earning potential. That’s why Matthews only signed 4 years. He can take max cap again next contract if we keep him.

Also if Marner wants to drive the price up using the Leafs vs. the League, he’s going UFA July 1st.

I wouldn’t worry about it anymore. Just cut ties and concentrate on who you want to bring in here. That’s where his money will go.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Its not entirely Marner's fault they've failed so many times.

But he's a huge part of the problem. Exasperated more by alienating himself from the fans and media. Marner turned the crosshairs directly on himself.

Nobody went out of their way to not like him.

As a player he has his faults. But that isn't why the fans want to run him out of town. It's because he's a snotty greedy unnaccountable rich kid who throws his teammates under the bus.

Meanwhile his own play has been even more detrimental than that of the players he accuses of being passengers.

From what I can gather Marner accounts for the lion's share of this team's pathetic playoffs performances. He really is the figurehead for everything wrong with this team. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame him, blame Marner.

It's not scapegoating when he really is the problem.

 

[Mess]

Also nothing makes me believe Marner wants an 8 year deal. The school of Marleau keeps 4/5 year deals so you can always maximize your earning potential. That’s why Matthews only signed 4 years. He can take max cap again next contract if we keep him.

Also if Marner wants to drive the price up using the Leafs vs. the League, he’s going UFA July 1st.

I wouldn’t worry about it anymore. Just cut ties and concentrate on who you want to bring in here. That’s where his money will go.

We get nearly $11 mil back to spend and even more if you consider what it would have cost to actually re-sign him compared to the replacement players.

We bring in Sam Bennett and sign"Captain serious" Jonathan Toews making his comeback and even bring in Patty Kane to re-unite his former running mate,

We can probably get all 3 players for what it would cost to re-sign Marner.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Of course he would have to agree to any trade.

You said "Trading negotiation rights is trading the player."

No one's trading the player. The Leafs would be giving up their exclusive rights to *negotiate* with Marner, which they have until July 1. He has every right to turn down any discussions or contract offers from another team. That's not a trade in any way whatsoever. And again, it's allowed and happens once in awhile.

 

[Gaberd2608]

We get nearly $11 mil back to spend and even more if you consider what it would have cost to actually re-sign him compared to the replacement players.

We bring in Sam Bennett and sign"Captain serious" Jonathan Toews making his comeback and even bring in Patty Kane to re-unite his former running mate,

We can probably get all 3 players for what it would cost to re-sign Marner.

I think given how badly the core guys disappear at important times, spreading things out more would give us more options of someone coming through for us.

The only way I would bring back Tavares is if his ask is just simply to good to be true. If we take Marners cap and spread it over 2-3 guys I think we would be the better for it. For me if we can get Bennett and Ehlers I would be over the moon. I'd love Toews but I think he would hate it in Toronto just like ROR. He is built different. I cannot see him bowing down the Matthews.

 

[Tak7]

I don't think this is correct. Pretty sure the Leafs can trade negotiating rights to another team without his input.

The Leafs are unable to trade Marner's negotiating rights, without him waiving his no move clause.

A player's No trade / No Move Clauses are active for the full duration of the contract - which don't expire until July 1st.

 

[ACC1224]

But that's about the best we can do to get any return on him right now. And it also doesn't prevent us from signing him on July 1. Anyone can. It would just mean we could get like a 4th rounder (wishful thinking to be honest) so a team like Vegas would have exclusive rights to negotiate with him without it being considered tampering. Probably none of this happens, just having fun throwing ideas around.

And again, I'm almost positive a team can trade negotiating rights without the player's consent.

I believe how it would work is a team would reach out to the Leafs and ask if they "can speak to the players agent and if we are able to come to an agreement we will give you a 5th. "
This allows for some type of return but also allows the Leafs to negotiate as well if they choose.

 

[JKG33]

Marner can only sign a 7 year deal max as a UFA.
If he wants to sign for 8 years, the Leafs would need to trade his rights to that team before July 1st.

Incorrect.

If the Leafs trade his rights, nobody can sign him to an 8 year deal. The player has to be on the team's roster prior to the trade deadline.

The Leafs could however, give permission for a team to speak to him, and then a sign and trade occurs, where the Leafs sign him to an 8 year deal and immediately trade him. However to my knowledge this has never happened post trade deadline with a pending UFA and an 8 yr deal

 

[Trapper]

Incorrect.

If the Leafs trade his rights, nobody can sign him to an 8 year deal. The player has to be on the team's roster prior to the trade deadline.

The Leafs could however, give permission for a team to speak to him, and then a sign and trade occurs, where the Leafs sign him to an 8 year deal and immediately trade him. However to my knowledge this has never happened post trade deadline with a pending UFA and an 8 yr deal

So he can only sign 8 years with the Leafs then. Got it.

Sign and trade can be 8 years or trading his rights gives another team early negotiating time over the rest of league. But that is only 7 years. Thanks for the correct info.

 

[JKG33]

So he can only sign 8 years with the Leafs then. Got it.

Sign and trade can be 8 years or trading his rights gives another team early negotiating time over the rest of league. But that is only 7 years. Thanks for the correct info.

Yup you got it.

Guentzel was probably the highest profile rights trade who actually signed with his new team, and that was a 7 year contract. The return was minimal.. I think either a 3rd or 4th round pick. The contract was signed well after the trade occurred.

 

[Mess]

I think given how badly the core guys disappear at important times, spreading things out more would give us more options of someone coming through for us.

Leafs biggest problem this entire Salary Cap era is too much $$$ in too few players which then KILLS any depth they could have.

Leafs have currently 4 players making among the top 12 highest AAV contracts and the rest of the league has 8 among the other 31 teams.

Leafs are about to cut Tavares salary in 1/2 and walking away from Marner leaves the Leafs with just 2 reaming top 12 contracts,

Then Marner's recaptured space and at least 1/2 of JT would allow the Leafs to build a much deeper team around Matthews and Nylander.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The Leafs are unable to trade Marner's negotiating rights, without him waiving his no move clause.

A player's No trade / No Move Clauses are active for the full duration of the contract - which don't expire until July 1st.

It's not Marner's negotiation rights, it's the Leafs negotiation rights. He has no say in the matter. Again, nothing forces Marner to even talk with the other team, he can just say f*** off, I'm going UFA July 1. It's totally allowed. It just means the Leafs can get scraps so another team can reach out to him him without it being tampering before July 1. No idea why people are even arguing about this. It's happened before many times.

https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/answers/trading-ufa-rights

 

[ITM]

We get nearly $11 mil back to spend and even more if you consider what it would have cost to actually re-sign him compared to the replacement players.

We bring in Sam Bennett and sign"Captain serious" Jonathan Toews making his comeback and even bring in Patty Kane to re-unite his former running mate,

We can probably get all 3 players for what it would cost to re-sign Marner.

Captain Serious is years removed from competition. Returning having apparently dealt with psychological issues in your late 30s - in Toronto - seems like the advice incompetent counsel would provide.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Captain Serious is years removed from competition. Returning having apparently dealt with psychological issues in your late 30s - in Toronto - seems like the advice incompetent counsel would provide.

Yeah, no idea why people are even musing about bringing Toews in. I wish him well...somewhere else.

 

[JKG33]

It's not Marner's negotiation rights, it's the Leafs negotiation rights. He has no say in the matter. Again, nothing forces Marner to even talk with the other team, he can just say f*** off, I'm going UFA July 1. It's totally allowed. It just means the Leafs can get scraps so another team can reach out to him him without it being tampering before July 1. No idea why people are even arguing about this. It's happened before many times.

https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/answers/trading-ufa-rights

Marner does have a say in the matter, because he's still technically under contract until July 1. His "rights" can not be traded without his permission.

 

[Mess]

Captain Serious is years removed from competition. Returning having apparently dealt with psychological issues in your late 30s - in Toronto - seems like the advice incompetent counsel would provide.

Maple Leafs' Brad Treliving Wants To 'Change The DNA' - Is Jonathan Toews The Answer?​

The Toronto Maple Leafs are expected to look quite different next season. Following GM Brad Treliving's message of the need to "change the DNA," reports emerged that three-time Stanley Cup champion Jonathan Toews is 100 percent ready to make an NHL comeback bid. While there's going to be no shortage of suitors for the former Chicago Blackhawks, should the Maple Leafs go after him? If so, at what cost?

Maple Leafs' Need for Leadership and Defensive Help

The Maple Leafs have consistently tried to bring in veterans over the years to augment their core players but it has yet to yield positive results in the postseason. Under head coach Craig Berube, the Maple Leafs shifted their mentality to a new identity centered around grit, consistent defensive play, and a more disciplined style of play. Berube’s system, which prioritizes quick transitions and controlled play in the offensive zone, could see a player like Toews thrive. It’s hard to expect someone like Toews to replicate his offensive numbers after spending the last two full seasons away from the game. However, when it comes to the defensive aspects of his game, those should return with some reps rather quickly.

The 2013 Selke Trophy-winning Toews could fit well within Berube’s identity. The Leafs' penalty kill underwent a transition, with Matthews getting more reps on the PK. Toronto finished with a middling 77.9 percent last season (17th out of 32 teams).

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner does have a say in the matter, because he's still technically under contract until July 1. His "rights" can not be traded without his permission.

JFC, I literally provided you a link proving you wrong. Here's an entire Google search on the subject. Why do people like you die on these hills instead of just researching it? It's really easy, you just say "Sorry, you were right and I was wrong." I think I've said that about 500 times on these forums. People generally appreciate it.

Google Search

 

[ULF_55]

The answer is $25.71 M for the Leafs (includes all UFA & RFA expiring contracts) via new Cap ceiling for 2025-26. Where $10.9 mil of that 25.71 mil is directly responsible for by Marner's contract.

Current situation for Leafs and the remaining teams with the most as of July 1st.

View attachment 1045099

All Teams : https://puckpedia.com/

Marner's biggest contract offer could come from Anaheim, Columbus and San Jose with the most available space at present.

On July 2nd. I expect the Leafs to have enough Cap Space to re-sign Knies, after having signed a couple big tickets on July 1st.

I think on July 2nd. there won't be enough to sign marner.

Leafs are not going to sit on the hands waiting for marner to decide.