Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Stephen]

Not interested. Nobody should make more than Matthews on this team so let someone else pay him 13/14 million. Even with that being said, this core has passed its best before date and needs a major change.

Not even Matthews should be making what he’s making.

 

[Antropovsky]

Goes into the corners like a figure skater is about as bad as it gets from a hockey guy. I mean what could be worse on video?

Leaf legend Rick Vaive said it... goes i to corners like a figure skater, trying to avoid being hit.

Then Marner is yelling at his bench? And Marner is agreeing too many passengers?

Fomer NHLer, Shane Obrien on his pdocast with Scottie Upshall said nobody is gonna get behind a player yelling at them to wake the $%*& up when they play like Marner on the ice. He said "not a mark on his face and hair is dry". He also said, you need to back your mouth up with your game. He pointed that Mcdavid does... Marner does not.

 

[IPS]

Leaf legend Rick Vaive said it... goes i to corners like a figure skater, trying to avoid being hit.

Then Marner is yelling at his bench? And Marner is agreeing too many passengers?

Fomer NHLer, Shane Obrien on his pdocast with Scottie Upshall said nobody is gonna get behind a player yelling at them to wake the $%*& up when they play like Marner on the ice. He said, you need to back your mouth up with your game. He pointed that Mcdavid does... Marner does not.

Probably the last thing you'd ever wanna hear from a legend when he's talking about you.

 

[Stephen]

Leaf legend Rick Vaive said it... goes i to corners like a figure skater, trying to avoid being hit.

Then Marner is yelling at his bench? And Marner is agreeing too many passengers?

Fomer NHLer, Shane Obrien on his pdocast with Scottie Upshall said nobody is gonna get behind a player yelling at them to wake the $%*& up when they play like Marner on the ice. He said, you need to back your mouth up with your game. He pointed that Mcdavid does... Marner does not.

Removing a player as soft as Marner - who is probably pound for pound the softest guy in the league - is going to definitely have a dramatic DNA impact on the Leafs.

 

[nuck]

Leaf management is up against it. Don't sign Marner, you lose 100 points and there is a real possibility of missing the playoffs. Sign him and incur the wrath of Leaf Nation and face an early playoff exit. The Leafs will struggle over the next 5 years at least with the hand that Dubas dealt them. So, whaddya do? Do you fold or play with the cards you've been dealt? It's a tough decision.

No chance they miss they playoffs losing any one player. This is a pretty good team when they have goaltending. Boeser or whoever aren't going to produce like Mitch but they will score more goals and the other wingers will get a bit more opportunity. Plus the extra $5-$6M left over will drop one of the scrubs off from the bottom 6. They will be fine although not necessarily more successful if they can't stay healthy.

 

[Mess]

Removing a player as soft as Marner - who is probably pound for pound the softest guy in the league - is going to definitely have a dramatic DNA impact on the Leafs.

If the goal is to get bigger, stronger and tougher then removing Marner is Addition by Subtraction, because it would be nearly impossible to go the other direction regardless of the player replacement.

 

[Gabriel426]

That’s not how statistics work in professional sports. Would be nice if it were that easy.

The best way to simplify things are to use point shares. Marner has an offensive point share of 8.1 and a defensive point share of 2.5. Therefore you need to find players who can replace his offensive point share of 8.1 at a minimum. The problem is that players who score below baseline levels can actually have a negative point share especially if they are defensive liabilities. So adding 4 players who score 25 points might achieve nothing.

A good example is Nick Ehlers and Sam Bennett. Ehlers has an offensive point share of 5.6 and Bennett is 3.9. So by adding these guys you are effectively replacing his offence and both players are pluses on defense. If replacing Tavares you will need to add two additional players to replace his offence especially on the PP. Can you sign all 4 guys for less than Marner and Tavares? Probably not to be honest but with some extra cap space it’s doable and the added depth will help in the playoffs.

Two seasons ago, AM got 79 goals and 107pts, this past season he got 33goals and 78 pts.

Did Leafs ended up better or worse?

You can’t just look at who will replace the 100pts from MM…. The replacement player plus others like AM, Willie, Knies will end up picking up those goals and points.

No doubt MM is a great player but the Leafs and him are better off going their separate ways bc they just can’t win collectively and we had SEVEN years of data for proof.

 

[58 Years No Cup]

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. This might come as a surprise to you but more goals scored is a good thing.

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playoffs and most regular seasons.

Matthews has one of the worst contracts in the nhl.

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. How many players have had their career year playing with marner? How many have had their career year playing with matthews?

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playpff time and for most of the regular season too.

Matthews had one of the worst contracts in the nhl. He's the highest paid player and in 3 years, he'll want to be the highest paid player again. He's the most selfish star player in the league and it isn't close.

Sigh. The paid influencers are so transparent.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. This might come as a surprise to you but more goals scored is a good thing.

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playoffs and most regular seasons.

Matthews has one of the worst contracts in the nhl.

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. How many players have had their career year playing with marner? How many have had their career year playing with matthews?

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playpff time and for most of the regular season too.

Matthews had one of the worst contracts in the nhl. He's the highest paid player and in 3 years, he'll want to be the highest paid player again. He's the most selfish star player in the league and it isn't close.

How do you know that producing more points means more goals?

Over the past 3 years, Matthews has played approx 2000 mins with Marner and 1000 without.

Matthews goals for% without Marner in that span: 63.55%

Matthews goals for% with Marner in that span: 60.30%

Matthews expected goals for Without Marner: 54.5%

Marner expected goals for without Matthews: 47.71%

So essentially, over the past 3 years....the opponent is expected to score 53% of the time when Marner is on the ice without Matthews.

 

[ashs]

Would've been nice to see Cowan playing with marner. But the damn negotiations became toxic and money corrupted everything.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I am shocked someone is still paying Damien Cox to write about anything

I can see Ferris paying him for that tripe.

 

[Stephen]

I am shocked someone is still paying Damien Cox to write about anything

I knew there would be this bullshit whisper campaign about re-signing Marner.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Leaf management is up against it. Don't sign Marner, you lose 100 points and there is a real possibility of missing the playoffs. Sign him and incur the wrath of Leaf Nation and face an early playoff exit. The Leafs will struggle over the next 5 years at least with the hand that Dubas dealt them. So, whaddya do? Do you fold or play with the cards you've been dealt? It's a tough decision.

If they don't sign Marner and don't use the 13M (but just move Reeves to 1RW?), there's a real possibility of missing the playoffs.

Pretty much anything else and they'll likely make it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Leaf legend Rick Vaive said it... goes i to corners like a figure skater, trying to avoid being hit.

Then Marner is yelling at his bench? And Marner is agreeing too many passengers?

I guess he heard all the positive reactions Nylander got for calling him out and figured he could do the same, without understanding the difference.

 

[thewave]

I can see Ferris paying him for that tripe.

What choice does he have? After being booed off the ice and once again failing in elimination games while every Scout witnessed you scared of contact.

They are calling around for 15m and getting laughed at. Probably the 13.5m is getting laughs at this point.

He torched himself with his own greed. Now they will panic and use deception to create a false sense of demand. There are a lot of teams that want 10m Marner. There may even be 11m Marner teams. 12 and up? Doubt it

 

[Stephen]

What choice does he have? After being booed off the ice and once again failing in elimination games while every Scout witnessed you scared of contact.

They are calling around for 15m and getting laughed at. Probably the 13.5m is getting laughs at this point.

He torched himself with his own greed. Now they will panic and use deception to create a false sense of demand. There are a lot of teams that want 10m Marner. There may even be 11m Marner teams. 12 and up? Doubt it

There's something really sad about the way Mitch Marner can turn $11 million on his hometown team into an L. Paradoxically, it's the pursuit of every last dollar and wanting that recognition that kinda ruins it for him.

 

[Mess]

​

Mitch Marner Could be the Carolina Hurricanes' Answer in Their Quest to Acquire Some Star-Power​

Initially, the Hurricanes landed Mikko Rantanen from the Colorado Avalanche ahead of the trade deadline. Unfortunately, Rantanen was not fond of the team and wanted out, which forced the Hurricanes to trade him to the Dallas Stars. Notably, Marner declined to waive his no-movement clause to allow the Leafs to land Rantanen.

Carolina is reportedly near the top of Marner's list of teams he would consider going to, they have over $28M in cap space and can afford to make him the highest paid player in the NHL.

 

[CelticDruid]

Leaf legend Rick Vaive said it... goes to corners like a figure skater, trying to avoid being hit.

Then Marner is yelling at his bench? And Marner agrees to too many passengers?

Former NHLer Shane Obrien, on his podcast with Scottie Upshall, said nobody is gonna get behind a player yelling at them to wake the $%*& up when they play like Marner on the ice. He said you need to back your mouth up with your game. He pointed out that McDavid does... Marner does not.

I have No doubt that he was always the cancer in the dressing room.

 

[CelticDruid]

Not fast
Not physical
Not an elite goal scorer
Poor shot
Will not go into corners
Plays high
Lots of high risk passes
Appears to be slowing down
Edge work not as good as 4 years ago
Never been a PO clutch performer
Poor attitude
Difficult in negotiations (overpays)
Seems to demand to be on Matthews line

Vs

Great edge work
Great vision and playmaking
Good defensively
Consistently puts up 90pts in the reg season


What does it mean?

Vancouver bound.

 

[Gaberd2608]

What choice does he have? After being booed off the ice and once again failing in elimination games while every Scout witnessed you scared of contact.

They are calling around for 15m and getting laughed at. Probably the 13.5m is getting laughs at this point.

He torched himself with his own greed. Now they will panic and use deception to create a false sense of demand. There are a lot of teams that want 10m Marner. There may even be 11m Marner teams. 12 and up? Doubt it

I have a hard time seeing any team offering him more than the Leafs would have. Why does Marner deserve more than Rantanen? Even if you look at non contending teams that could benefit from Marner, the should look at the Leafs as a cautionary tale by signing Tavares to a big deal and f***ing up their cap structure.

If Chicago signs Marner to play with Bedard for example it will almost certainly cost them more to sign Bedard.

If San Jose signs Marner to play with Cellibrini same thing.

Even the rumours with Vegas, if they offer Marner something excessive Eichler will cost that much more.

Only in Toronto do players get offered $13 + million with full NMC, max bonuses, endorsements, etc and think the team is insulting them.

I would be shocked if Marner ends up getting humbled and takes less than Rantanen somewhere and tries to spin it as low tax state, win cups, always respected that coach, or some other nonsense.

 

[Antropovsky]

I guess he heard all the positive reactions Nylander got for calling him out and figured he could do the same, without understanding the difference.

And he no doubt saw Mcdavid do it last year and saw how much publicy it got.

 

[Antropovsky]

I have a hard time seeing any team offering him more than the Leafs would have. Why does Marner deserve more than Rantanen? Even if you look at non contending teams that could benefit from Marner, the should look at the Leafs as a cautionary tale by signing Tavares to a big deal and f***ing up their cap structure.

If Chicago signs Marner to play with Bedard for example it will almost certainly cost them more to sign Bedard.

If San Jose signs Marner to play with Cellibrini same thing.

Even the rumours with Vegas, if they offer Marner something excessive Eichler will cost that much more.

Only in Toronto do players get offered $13 + million with full NMC, max bonuses, endorsements, etc and think the team is insulting them.

I would be shocked if Marner ends up getting humbled and takes less than Rantanen somewhere and tries to spin it as low tax state, win cups, always respected that coach, or some other nonsense.

Yea ...his family stands to lose too. They are all employed by the Marner Assist Foundation.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Leaf management is up against it. Don't sign Marner, you lose 100 points and there is a real possibility of missing the playoffs. Sign him and incur the wrath of Leaf Nation and face an early playoff exit. The Leafs will struggle over the next 5 years at least with the hand that Dubas dealt them. So, whaddya do? Do you fold or play with the cards you've been dealt? It's a tough decision.

No need to “fold”. Decent management can lead the team through this situation. Marner can be replaced in aggregate. The leafs have tons of cap space for a change.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Marner going to Carolina would be such a heel move.

What's strange is if you asked 20 year old Marner, do you want to be a hero in Toronto for the rest of your life in exchange for a few hundred grand off a 10M+ annual salary? I think there's a resounding yes. But he got into extremely granular arguments over the pennies on his deal, and involved Dreger publicly and it was sickening to see Rantenan sign for less money and more term a week or two later.

Hell get his bags, and I suspect his relationship with leaf fans won't be repaired until after his retirement. He could've been a legend here. I don't buy the argument that his agent went rogue and he's the real meanie. Uhh brother if your top client doesn't want you acting a certain way, you follow their instructions. I work with contracts fall smaller and even I know this

 

[RoadWarrior]

Removing a player as soft as Marner - who is probably pound for pound the softest guy in the league - is going to definitely have a dramatic DNA impact on the Leafs.

No it won’t. lol. However replacing him with multiple character players who can elevate their games in tough situations will help the team.