Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Mess]

IF I were in BT shoes and building for the future any thought of walking away from Marner would include the possibility (albeit remote perhaps), on not re-investing that money save into 2025 UFA crop but rather focus eyes on 2026 when a certain #97 might want to come home to roost.

I'd be sending a clear message Bat Signal in the Sky without mentioning any names to avoid any tampering charges. but by cleaver use of cap space prepared to make a HUGE move the following summer.

So short-term stop gap moves only this summer. An example bring in Jonathan Toews an Patty Kane on 1 year deals to play alongside JT making only 1/2 his current money.

Instead of paying Marner ($14 mil estimate) or use that space up foolishly, I'd hold it in reserve.

Walking away from Marner for FREE (instead of overpaying him) and then replacing him with McDavid for ($15-16 mil estimate) FREE as UFA 1 year later would be plan IF successful that NO Leafs fan would not endorse. IMO.

You decide Marner @ 8 X $14 mil or McDavid @ 8 years X $16 mil.

 

[Superstar]

Yes it does. Marners 102 points is about 65 points above a baseline average NHL player scoring 35 points in a season. A 50 point player scores 15 points above baseline. You need at least 3 of those to get close to replacing Marners offense.

The Panthers have managed to achieve this with excellent scoring depth and with the leafs having an abundance of cap space it’s entirely doable.

You have to compare 1st line player to 1st line player, and players that have similar powerplay time to Marner...Marner ain't getting paid average NHL salary.

 

[Superstar]

Some dope in a low tax state will give him 11-12. You're right though. I also think the majorly interested already ran number by Ferris and they are underwhelming

I don't think Florida would pay him $12 million...Reinhart only took $9.5 million...I know the cap is rising, blah, blah, blah...Marner would be lucky to get $11 million from Florida...if Toronto offered him $13.5 million, and he gets a few million in endorsements playing in Toronto, it ain't a win for Marner dollar-wise in Florida.

 

[Mess]

Yes it does. Marners 102 points is about 65 points above a baseline average NHL player scoring 35 points in a season. A 50 point player scores 15 points above baseline. You need at least 3 of those to get close to replacing Marners offense.

The Panthers have managed to achieve this with excellent scoring depth and with the leafs having an abundance of cap space it’s entirely doable.

For me .. It more about the playoffs then regular season point for point matching,

Mitch Marner has scored 13 playoff goals after 9 playoff years while Sam Bennett has scored 10 playoff goals alone.

Instead of re-signing Marner for $14 mil you can get Ontario kid Sam Bennett at 8 years @ $8 mil and can use the extra $4 mil on team building elsewhere.

 

[Trapper]

That’s the worst news I have heard all day

Agreed. Time for the Marner saga to end. Let some other team deal with his 13+ million per year and playoffs. We don’t get a fresh start until he walks.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

For me .. It more about the playoffs then regular season point for point matching,

Mitch Marner has scored 13 playoff goals after 9 playoff years while Sam Bennett has scored 10 playoff goals alone.

Instead of re-signing Marner for $14 mil you can get Ontario kid Sam Bennett at 8 years @ $8 mil and can use the extra $4 mil on team building elsewhere.

You think they can get Bennett at 8 milli?

 

[Trapper]

Hopefully we closed the door… ok unless he signs long term with no raise.

Hope so.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Hope so.
View attachment 1044669

User Stickty111 just told me yesterday that no leaf fans want to run it back. What the...

 

[ULF_55]

If true its a leverage play more than anything, the draft combine is coming where agents & GMs gather face to face & its in Marner’s best interest to keep the Leafs as leverage to get the best possible terms on the contract other than dollars.

And the story that came out that Treliving tried to change the DNA last year but Vegas wasn't interested has to be countered as best his team can.

 

[PoutineSniper]

It's odd how there being something like 1.6 assists per goal means that there are more assists handed out than goals.

Matthews was, at least apparently, injured all season, which might have affected his production.

Matthews is signed with an NMC - Marner is not.

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. This might come as a surprise to you but more goals scored is a good thing.

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playoffs and most regular seasons.

Matthews has one of the worst contracts in the nhl.

It's odd how there being something like 1.6 assists per goal means that there are more assists handed out than goals.

Matthews was, at least apparently, injured all season, which might have affected his production.

Matthews is signed with an NMC - Marner is not.

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. How many players have had their career year playing with marner? How many have had their career year playing with matthews?

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playpff time and for most of the regular season too.

Matthews had one of the worst contracts in the nhl. He's the highest paid player and in 3 years, he'll want to be the highest paid player again. He's the most selfish star player in the league and it isn't close.

 

[HarryLime]

IF I were in BT shoes and building for the future any thought of walking away from Marner would include the possibility (albeit remote perhaps), on not re-investing that money save into 2025 UFA crop but rather focus eyes on 2026 when a certain #97 might want to come home to roost.

I'd be sending a clear message Bat Signal in the Sky without mentioning any names to avoid any tampering charges. but by cleaver use of cap space prepared to make a HUGE move the following summer.

So short-term stop gap moves only this summer. An example bring in Jonathan Toews an Patty Kane on 1 year deals to play alongside JT making only 1/2 his current money.

Instead of paying Marner ($14 mil estimate) or use that space up foolishly, I'd hold it in reserve.

Walking away from Marner for FREE (instead of overpaying him) and then replacing him with McDavid for ($15-16 mil estimate) FREE as UFA 1 year later would be plan IF successful that NO Leafs fan would not endorse. IMO.

You decide Marner @ 8 X $14 mil or McDavid @ 8 years X $16 mil.

There's not a reality that McDavid would walk from Edmonton. He has Drai, he has a team that after years have cleared their own hurdles and he is cut from the same cloth as Crosby IMO.

It's not happening. I wouldn't put any hope into such a thing.

 

[RoadWarrior]

According to reports all previous offers made are no longer in play. So you're correct Leafs are no longer obligated to meet or beat any previous offer.

Willy makes $11.5 mil and is far more impactful as successful statistically come playoff time. So that would have to be the upper limit on Marner next deal for me as well.

If Treliving can't find suitable new players for Marner's re-capture cap space then he might circle back and this time offer a take it or leave it deal for Mitch, on Leafs terms. If he can get Marner at a market value and player comparable deal then its still might make best business sense to bring hm back. IMO

Marner will get overpaid because it’s a lousy UFA group this year. Teams like Anaheim will shell out the big bucks for a regular season scorer who can help them make the playoffs. They don’t care about the cup any more than Mitch does.

 

[RoadWarrior]

For me .. It more about the playoffs then regular season point for point matching,

Mitch Marner has scored 13 playoff goals after 9 playoff years while Sam Bennett has scored 10 playoff goals alone.

Instead of re-signing Marner for $14 mil you can get Ontario kid Sam Bennett at 8 years @ $8 mil and can use the extra $4 mil on team building elsewhere.

Once you’re in the playoffs that true but you still need to get there first. Not replacing any of Marners offense could jeopardize their odds of even making the playoffs. So it would have to be Bennet plus others.

 

[stickty111]

User Stickty111 just told me yesterday that no leaf fans want to run it back. What the...

Incorrect.

 

[Leafs87]

Damage control.... if he doesnt get huge offers...he wants to be able to say "my heart was always in Toronto". Not... i was shocked thst noone offered better deals than Toronto.

Same thing he did last contract:

Reporter: "Was the offersheets for more?"
Marner: "Oh i dont know, I told Ferris I dont want to even know what they are, I want to llay for Leafs"

Yea... Mitchy, you didnt even find out what they are? He really takes everyone has idiots.

Legally I think his agent has a responsibility to present every offer he gets to his client

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Then the fan base picks a new scapegoat

Scapegoat my ass, he and the rest of the core all own this failure together.

The difference is that Matthews, Rielly and Nylander are all signed long-term. It's very hard, if not impossible, to move on from them. If Matthews was an impending UFA he'd be treated the same, if not even worse, than Marner.

 

[Trapper]

Scapegoat my ass, he and the rest of the core all own this failure together.

The difference is that Matthews, Rielly and Nylander are all signed long-term. It's very hard, if not impossible, to move on from them. If Matthews was an impending UFA he'd be treated the same, if not even worse, than Marner.

I’d get rid of them all unfortunately I don’t think that’s feasible at this time.
So I’ll settle for 1 now and see how things go. Then we can work on the others if it’s more of the same.

 

[ToneDog]

Once you’re in the playoffs that true but you still need to get there first. Not replacing any of Marners offense could jeopardize their odds of even making the playoffs. So it would have to be Bennet plus others.

There is no chance they are not replacing Marner's offence. I believe with the right adds up front, they will be better next year than last. Matty back to 100% would be a great start.

 

[ToneDog]

Scapegoat my ass, he and the rest of the core all own this failure together.

The difference is that Matthews, Rielly and Nylander are all signed long-term. It's very hard, if not impossible, to move on from them. If Matthews was an impending UFA he'd be treated the same, if not even worse, than Marner.

Demanded and got all their money, said they had unfinished business and shit the bed for another playoff. They should be ashamed to look in the mirror every morning and embarrassed with their playoff performances and no shows.

 

[IronHookem]

You think they can get Bennett at 8 milli?

Absolutely not, Florida will likely offer him something around 7x6, and he would be stupid not to take it. The only way we have a chance of signing him is if we offer him something really stupid like 10x8.

Bennett is not going to be a Leaf.

 

[3blizzard4]

The core four/five have definitely looked at the past 9 years and said to themselves “dang this looks pretty bad on us”.

9 years of colossal failures. When they started giving away draft picks for rentals we fans sat there and said yeah who cares this is the time.

Well the time came and went. Now the cubboards are bare and two of the core are free agents. Not to mention the we are getting up there in age and health.

 

[Antropovsky]

Legally I think his agent has a responsibility to present every offer he gets to his client

Quote at bottom is From TSN in 2019.

I thought he also once implurf in a diff interview that he said he told Ferris he didnt want to know.

however, below when asked if they were for more money, he said he didnt ask Ferris for much details because he didnt really want them... not sure why he that would hold any meaning to whether they were for more money:

The 22-year-old declined to say whether the either of the offer sheets were worth more than what he signed for in Toronto.

"I don't want to go into any of that," Marner said."Like I kind of told Darren, I didn't really want them so I didn't ask for too many details about it. I'm not going to get into that."

 

[Antropovsky]

The core four/five have definitely looked at the past 9 years and said to themselves “dang this looks pretty bad on us”.

9 years of colossal failures. When they started giving away draft picks for rentals we fans sat there and said yeah who cares this is the time.

Well the time came and went. Now the cubboards are bare and two of the core are free agents. Not to mention the we are getting up there in age and health.

Yea this year the "pressure in Toronto" narrative is getting sqashed and even laughed over.

I like that Vaive, Patches and Roberts have come out and said they love the pressure in Toronto. Makes Marner playing the victim card constantly look very bad. And Vaive of course also saying he thinks Marner needs to go and cant hack Toronto..that hes soft and plays like a figure skater trying to avoid hits. Lol... ouch from a Leaf legend.

I wonder what Marner thought hearing Patches say that when you go to places with less fans you notice it and places with fans like Montreal and Toronto are much better (in his opinion).

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. This might come as a surprise to you but more goals scored is a good thing.

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playoffs and most regular seasons.

Matthews has one of the worst contracts in the nhl.

Marner produces more points which means more goals scored for the leafs. How many players have had their career year playing with marner? How many have had their career year playing with matthews?

Matthews is, at least apparently, always injured come playpff time and for most of the regular season too.

Matthews had one of the worst contracts in the nhl. He's the highest paid player and in 3 years, he'll want to be the highest paid player again. He's the most selfish star player in the league and it isn't close.

I think you missed the point about more assists. And actually, goals mean more assists, not the other way.

And you obviously missed the point about Matthews being injured.

Over the last 5 seasons Matthews has scored the moat goals and has one of the highest +/- in the league. To suggest that his contract is one of the worst is pathetic.

If you think he is "the most selfish star player in the league", what is your opinion of a lesser players who scores a lot fewer goals (and I'm fully aware that more goals is good, which was my point) and still expects to be paid as much or more than Matthews?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There is no chance they are not replacing Marner's offence. I believe with the right adds up front, they will be better next year than last. Matty back to 100% would be a great start.

I hope Tre is leaning that way. We already have a change in system through Berube. There's no reason we can't use players we already have in certain situations: Laughton on the PK. OEL on the PP.

Toronto will make the post-season without Marner, and possibly a 2nd line C who's not named Tavares. You have to try. Otherwise, we're in cap hell again.