Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Mess]

This guy simply can't take a Hint.

When BT is talking changing the DNA to win in the playoffs, he is talking about you Mitch!!!

I thought when he tried to trade you away it was rather obvious, and by DNA he means getting rid of soft. small, easily intimidated players that crumble under pressure and disappear is key series games.

 

[capfit9]

Dare I ask, what happens if Marner leaves and the leafs don't win a cup next year?

Same as if he were to stay & Leafs don’t win a cup. End result, Leafs don’t win a cup.

 

[capfit9]

This guy simply can't take a Hint.

When BT is talking changing the DNA to win in the playoffs, he is talking about you Mitch!!!

I thought when he tried to trade you away it was rather obvious, and by DNA he means getting rid of soft. small, easily intimidated players that crumble under pressure and disappear is key series games.

If true its a leverage play more than anything, the draft combine is coming where agents & GMs gather face to face & its in Marner’s best interest to keep the Leafs as leverage to get the best possible terms on the contract other than dollars.

 

[Antropovsky]

Damage control.... if he doesnt get huge offers...he wants to be able to say "my heart was always in Toronto". Not... i was shocked thst noone offered better deals than Toronto.

Same thing he did last contract:

Reporter: "Was the offersheets for more?"
Marner: "Oh i dont know, I told Ferris I dont want to even know what they are, I want to llay for Leafs"

Yea... Mitchy, you didnt even find out what they are? He really takes everyone has idiots.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No idea what about the Cats or Maurice makes you think they would bring Marner into their program, that would be crazy. They turfed 115p Hubes and never had it so good.

It's likely if the players were swapped it would be the Leafs walking into the finals.

Tkachuk scored 109 points as a replacement. There was another side to that trade.

 

[thewave]

Damage control.... if he doesnt get huge offers...he wants to be able to say "my heart was always in Toronto". Not... i was shocked thst noone offered better deals than Toronto.

Same thing he did last contract:

Reporter: "Was the offersheets for more?"
Marner: "Oh i dont know, I told Ferris I dont want to even know what they are, I want to llay for Leafs"

Yea... Mitchy, you didnt even find out what they are? He really takes everyone has idiots.

Some dope in a low tax state will give him 11-12. You're right though. I also think the majorly interested already ran number by Ferris and they are underwhelming

 

[Confucius]

Hopefully we closed the door… ok unless he signs long term with no raise.

 

[Confucius]

That’s not true in the regular season unless the 50 point guys offer huge intangibles. You probably need three 50 point guys to actually replace Marners offense.

If Mathews can’t score without Mitch, he is way overpaid as well. We should jump off this merry go round.

 

[Anthrax442]

Im no NHL player, or a pro athlete of any kind. But I refuse to believe that these players dont know every detail of offers and deals coming in to them of any kind. I don't believe when they say "I haven't thought about it at all till now" BULL F'N Shit. It's your livelihood, your very limited window to earn, you will think about this every waking moment. Stop feeding us this shit.

 

[Legion34]

And with your logic the Leafs will fall from the top 4 out of 32 teams to barely making the playoffs. But that's better because "I need my change"

I'd rather stay at the top then slide down.

If the Leafs lose Marner we are sliding down to Montreal territory.

If we lose 30g and 100 pts and add 2 60 pt players. It won’t change a ton. Marner isn’t being just deleted.

We lost 36 goals from Matthews last year and improved. I am assuming we are re signing. Tavares. But.

Knies. Matthews. ——-
———- Tavares. Nylander
Domi. Laughton. Mcmann
Holmberg Kampf. Jarnkrok.

You could get 2 7 million dollar forwards.
Easy.

If Marner wants to leave and go to a no tax market. Then someone has to shake free.

I still don’t think Marner leaves. I know what Everyone says. But is he really going to give up his chance to be in the rafters because of the fans?

The idea that Dougie and Tucker and all those guys aren’t calling him talking about it would be odd

 

[Racer88]

That’s not how statistics work in professional sports. Would be nice if it were that easy.

The best way to simplify things are to use point shares. Marner has an offensive point share of 8.1 and a defensive point share of 2.5. Therefore you need to find players who can replace his offensive point share of 8.1 at a minimum. The problem is that players who score below baseline levels can actually have a negative point share especially if they are defensive liabilities. So adding 4 players who score 25 points might achieve nothing.

A good example is Nick Ehlers and Sam Bennett. Ehlers has an offensive point share of 5.6 and Bennett is 3.9. So by adding these guys you are effectively replacing his offence and both players are pluses on defense. If replacing Tavares you will need to add two additional players to replace his offence especially on the PP. Can you sign all 4 guys for less than Marner and Tavares? Probably not to be honest but with some extra cap space it’s doable and the added depth will help in the playoffs.

Great explanation of the mechanism of the stat you are using. However what if one of our replacement 50 point players has a really good points above average.
What if both do.
As you can guess I’m not a big believer in stats like this and crowd favourite “expected this or expected that”
Actual points are what are measured in player stats. A 50 point player is a 50 point player no matter how he gets those points.

 

[Racer88]

No they wouldn’t. Marner is a better offensive player than Bennett. However Bennett is much cheaper and allows the Panthers to add elsewhere in the lineup thus improving their depth scoring. Plus Bennett brings intangibles that are difficult to quantify that helps you win games. Especially in the playoffs.

The Panthers will likely be bidders for Marners services. He can be sheltered in their lineup without nearly as much media scrutiny.

It’s a shame that a player asking fir 13 million needs to be sheltered in any way

 

[Gaberd2608]

That’s not true in the regular season unless the 50 point guys offer huge intangibles. You probably need three 50 point guys to actually replace Marners offense.

You don't think if Brad signed Kane and Ehlers instead of Marner we wouldn't be just fine? I think Kane and Matthews would be just fine and I bet Ehlers and Nylander would have fun together. Through in a center like Karlsson and I think our top 6 is way better without Marner.

Knies. Matthews. Kane
Ehlers. Karlsson. Nylander

The assumption is also that Knies will get a bit more points and Matthews will bounce back.

Bottom line, the only thing bad about losing Marner is that we were not able to recover assets via a trade. Can't blame Brad for that. Dubus sealed the deal years ago for us with those contracts.

Full NMC are dumb. I think it is not unreasonable ask for a list of 5 team you would accept a trade to. If the player wants the full NMC they should come down on price and adjust term. Dubas gave the players everything they wanted and in return we got nothing and Dubas found himself out of the organization.

 

[thewave]

Im no NHL player, or a pro athlete of any kind. But I refuse to believe that these players dont know every detail of offers and deals coming in to them of any kind. I don't believe when they say "I haven't thought about it at all till now" BULL F'N Shit. It's your livelihood, your very limited window to earn, you will think about this every waking moment. Stop feeding us this shit.

People that can see the forest for the trees can't stand the guy because he is such a fake person IMHO. It's not hard to understand just how contrived his whole gimmick is. We are even offered windows into what is going behind the scenes and still some people are duped.

Seems a low quality person. A greedy person. A self absorbed person. He is a person you don't want to do business with period. He is into marketing not mattering.

Would say it to his face if I knew him well enough. By well enough I mean had a business interaction with him that didn't go smoothly for instance.

 

[Jojalu]

A few guys I’d like to see tre target, donato, puis Suter and P.kane. I think P.kane is an excellent value signing. He can get 60% of marker’s points at a third of the cost

Puis Suter performed well in place of EP, but he is one of the slowest skaters in the league.

If they can add speed with the other 2 spots then I think it would be a good move.

 

[thewave]

Puis Suter performed well in place of EP, but he is one of the slowest skaters in the league.

If they can add speed with the other 2 spots then I think it would be a good move.

Fast and hard hitting with persistent urgency wins. Yes you need some scorers in there and obviously a top rated tender solid D core. Never bring in players that don't up it in the POs

Anyone that tries to sell anything else is a snake oil salesman

 

[BraveCanadian]

Dare I ask, what happens if Marner leaves and the leafs don't win a cup next year?

Then the fan base picks a new scapegoat

 

[Mess]

If true its a leverage play more than anything, the draft combine is coming where agents & GMs gather face to face & its in Marner’s best interest to keep the Leafs as leverage to get the best possible terms on the contract other than dollars.

The last time Marner held all the cards with a full no move contract NMC, he invoked it to stay against the organizations best wishes. Treliving wanted Rantanen not YOU.

Now Treliving is holding the full NMC as in No Marner Contract coming & unless Toronto decides and at what terms. Maybe after BT sees what is available better via UFA and trade options, he circles back if your still unsigned as plan B or C and considers bringing you back and on his terms.

Its not up to you Mitch to decide anything at this point, where Leafs organization is concerned while desiring to seek change to their DNA and Core 4, which is all about YOU,

Its a little late now Mitch rethinking previous Leaf bridge burning damage control options now standing there with a fire extinguisher, after voiding a team accepted successful trade offer and telling everyone you want to test free agency to see what options you have.

 

[thewave]

The last time Marner held all the cards with a full no move contract NMC, he invoked it to stay against the organizations best wishes. Treliving wanted Rantanen not YOU.

Now Treliving is holding the full NMC as in No Marner Contract coming & unless Toronto decides and at what terms. Maybe after BT sees what is available better via UFA and trade options, he circles back if your still unsigned as plan B or C and considers bringing you back and on his terms.

Its not up to you Mitch to decide anything at this point, where Leafs organization is concerned while desiring to seek change to their DNA and Core 4, which is all about YOU,

View attachment 1044647 View attachment 1044648

Its a little late now Mitch rethinking previous Leaf bridge burning damage control options now standing there with a fire extinguisher, after voiding a team accepted successful trade offer and telling everyone you want to test free agency to see what options you have.

The team would have to be stupid to even pay what they offered. 11.5m max or a sign and trade sure or some deal with no NMC is fine.

He and Ferris blew themselves up on this one. Call it Karma, call it whatever you want but they did themselves in and are in a corner

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Hes not coming back. Him "leaving the door open" is just negotiating for other teams to offer a huge contract

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Shanny is such a goofball for letting it get to this. We're just dudes on our phones killing time with no access to the players and this outcome seemed incredibly predictable for 3 years

We have the advantage of not being paralyzed by fear.

 

[Mess]

The team would have to be stupid to even pay what they offered. 11.5m max or a sign and trade sure or some deal with no NMC is fine.

He and Ferris blew themselves up on this one. Call it Karma, call it whatever you want but they did themselves in and are in a corner

According to reports all previous offers made are no longer in play. So you're correct Leafs are no longer obligated to meet or beat any previous offer.

Willy makes $11.5 mil and is far more impactful as successful statistically come playoff time. So that would have to be the upper limit on Marner next deal for me as well.

If Treliving can't find suitable new players for Marner's re-capture cap space then he might circle back and this time offer a take it or leave it deal for Mitch, on Leafs terms. If he can get Marner at a market value and player comparable deal then its still might make best business sense to bring hm back. IMO

 

[Stephen]

Predictable.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The Damien Cox article in today's Star is good for a laugh.

He says Shanahan leaving "hasn't been explained logically".

He says Marner had two seasons left on his contract when Tre was hired, so it's fair to blame Tre for the ramifications, without seeing that he really had maybe a month before the NMC.

He says the situation of "a team that can't score in the postseason when it matters" means it needs to bring back one of the worst players at scoring in the postseason when it matters.

He seems to think that Matthews and Nylander signing extensions before or during the season, and Marner refusing to do so, is an indication that the team is treating him differently.

 

[thewave]

The Damien Cox article in today's Star is good for a laugh.

He says Shanahan leaving "hasn't been explained logically".

He says Marner had two seasons left on his contract when Tre was hired, so it's fair to blame Tre for the ramifications, without seeing that he really had maybe a month before the NMC.

He says the situation of "a team that can't score in the postseason when it matters" means it needs to bring back one of the worst players at scoring in the postseason when it matters.

He seems to think that Matthews and Nylander signing extensions before or during the season, and Marner refusing to do so, is an indication that the team is treating him differently.

Occam's Razor.

Cox is getting greased by Ferris and using the controversial view for clickbait.

The "Sherlock" Wave