Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[hotpaws]

Running it back should no longer be an option. Now if they consider not bring Tavares back, not running it back then I pity them. Sign Marner and then you have to trade 34 or 88. Fans are tired of this f***ing rerun with the same soft, overpaid, selfish, unlikeable, perimeter players

No idea what your trying to say , if we sign Marner but let JT walk that's running it back but if we sign JT and Mitch walks that's not running it back ?

if you want to call them a selfish overpaid underperforming core that's fine but that includes Tavares , either they all get a pass or none do , giving JT a pass who's been by far the worst and most overpaid of the core makes no sense and even if we sign him at 4-5m he still underperformed that cap hit in the playoffs

 

[Antropovsky]

I think the odds of him staying are much, much higher. I would say the odds of him re-signing in Toronto are closer to 60 percent.

I can't say why I think that, because of rules on the site, but the odds of the Leafs retaining him, or absolutely trying to keep him, are much higher.

I think the rules of the site are made so people dont try to play insider on a regular basis...which we have had occur in the past.

One time, I know a guy or I have this information is not the same as playing insider. I see posters do it very often and Mods dont delete them. In fact I just saw one on the main board.

 

[Antropovsky]

That we didn't have enough cap room to give him $5 mil anyway... sad but true.



I think the Leafs are doing PR, more often than they are being honest. Yes, they are singing his praise, but I think they aren't going to offer him what he's looking for, and then say... he took more elsewhere, it's not our fault, to avoid blowback. Of course any team would want Marner, or to get him back... but at what price? Sure, he's worth a lot as a 100 point regular season player.. but he's not much more than a $6 million dollar playoff guy so far. Plus we need change... so you offer him what his current contract is, say nice things, and then wish him the best when other teams easily beat that offer.

Exactly... the easy answer is of course we want him back. But nobody is asking do you want him back for 13.5x3 years?

If Maurice is asked about Ekblad or Bennett, he would say of course we want them back. However, if they 10 million each, now do you want them back?

 

[notbias]

Why are we debating Hyman in a thread dedicated to irrational Marner hate?
Shirley there must be a better suited thread for such debate.

All threads are irrational Marner hate, so just pick another one we can argue in, please.

Hyman has outproduced his contract every year in Edmonton and in Toronto. Shame Shanny and Dubas could not see who the true playoff performers were. I can see it for Dubas but WFT was Shanny thinking?

It's unfortunate he was terrible here in the playoffs and no one can remember that...

 

[ACC1224]

All threads are irrational Marner hate, so just pick another one we can argue in, please.

It's not complicated, read the title and stick to the topic.
Hyman isn't a Leaf so he should be discussed in the Around the League thread

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Why are we debating Hyman in a thread dedicated to irrational Marner hate?
Shirley there must be a better suited thread for such debate.

There isn't...and stop calling me Surely.

 

[ToneDog]

No idea what your trying to say , if we sign Marner but let JT walk that's running it back but if we sign JT and Mitch walks that's not running it back ?

if you want to call them a selfish overpaid underperforming core that's fine but that includes Tavares , either they all get a pass or none do , giving JT a pass who's been by far the worst and most overpaid of the core makes no sense and even if we sign him at 4-5m he still underperformed that cap hit in the playoffs

JT is no longer a core piece IMO. Moving off him does not change the landscape much IMO.

IMO you have to move off one of the 3 amigos and JT if there is a better option and bring in players that do not shrink in big moments. Marner @ 13.5m is a death wish IMO. Nobody fears him in the regular season much and not at all in the playoffs. Never winning with him as one of your top two paid players. It is laughable if they pay him $13.5m after witnessing the last 6 to 8 playoffs.

 

[Antropovsky]

No idea what your trying to say , if we sign Marner but let JT walk that's running it back but if with sign JT and Mitch walks that's not running it back ?

if you want to call them a selfish overpaid underpaid core that's fine but that includes Tavares , either they all get a pass or none do , giving JT a pass who's been by far the worst and most overpaid of the core makes no sense and even if we sign him at 4-5m he still underperformed that cap hit in the playoffs

At the age of 21, Marner signed a 6 year contract at 13.37% cap hit.

At the age of 20, Patrick Kane signed a 5 year contract at 10.61%

At the age of 27, Tavares signed a 7 year 13.84% cap hit with the Leafs. He was a two time Hart finalist.

13.84% is one of the lower % for a star player. And because he was a UFA, he only got 7 years.

By comparison
Kane had a 14.71% cap
Mackinnon had a 15.09% cap
Matthews is 15.09%
Draisaitl is 14.66%
Marners rumored 13.5 million offer is 14.14% of the cap.

Hymans contract with Edmonton was 5.5 million x7. Because Leafs wouldnt sign and trade Hyman to give the 8th year, with the 8th year, Hymans contract would have been 5 millionx8 years.

So Hyman was given 0.60% more for 7 year contract vs the 8 year.

So Tavares ABSOLUTELY took a significant cut to come to Toronto.

Marner was ABSOLUTELY overpaid compared to others on his last contract.

Both Nylanders contracts are reasonable.

Matthews too...

Marner is the outlier.

We should celebrate Tavares.

Marner is pure greed And really the only one of the core. He also gives the core a bad reputation as youve just proven because they get grouped into hia greed. They get grouped into his incredible failures and also into this "too much pressure" talk, because of Marner for years talking about "caring to much" "meanies on social media" etc etc.

 

[ToneDog]

For fans on this forum, maybe. For fans who renew at over 99% every year, probably not so much. In a way the Leafs are Teflon no matter what they do.

I agree but the fans booing, throwing jerseys and beer were not fans on this board as far as I know. I think many fans have seen more than enough and want to see changes.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I agree but the fans booing, throwing jerseys and beer were not fans on this board as far as I know. I think many fans have seen more than enough and want to see changes.

Booing is fine and very well deserved.

I don't condone throwing things on the ice though.

 

[hotpaws]

At the age of 21, Marner signed a 6 year contract at 13.37% cap hit.

At the age of 20, Patrick Kane signed a 5 year contract at 10.61%

At the age of 27, Tavares signed a 7 year 13.84% cap hit with the Leafs. He was a two time Hart finalist.

13.84% is one of the lower % for a star player. And because he was a UFA, he only got 7 years.

By comparison
Kane had a 14.71% cap
Mackinnon had a 15.09% cap
Matthews is 15.09%
Draisaitl is 14.66%
Marners rumored 13.5 million offer is 14.14% of the cap.

Hymans contract with Edmonton was 5.5 million x7. Because Leafs wouldnt sign and trade Hyman to give the 8th year, with the 8th year, Hymans contract would have been 5 millionx8 years.

So Hyman was given 0.60% more for 7 year contract vs the 8 year.

So Tavares ABSOLUTELY took a significant cut to come to Toronto.

Marner was ABSOLUTELY overpaid compared to others on his last contract.

Both Nylanders contracts are reasonable.

Matthews too...

Marner is the outlier.

We should celebrate Tavares.

Marner is pure greed And really the only one of the core. He also gives the core a bad reputation as youve just proven because they get grouped into hia greed. They get grouped into his incredible failures and also into this "too much pressure" talk, because of Marner for years talking about "caring to much" "meanies on social media" etc etc.

Tavares is by far the worst of all the comps you gave outside of maybe Willie and i have no idea why you brought Hyman up

and celebrate him for what ? he's never accomplished shit his entire career !

he walks on the Islander after 9 yrs of people saying poor JT had to carry a bunch of AHL'ers and they instantly went on to have the most success since their cup teams of the early eighties

he signed the highest cap hit in the league at that time and people are and still calling it a discount , lol , and still praising him even though he never moved the needle here and has never had a good playoffs

all Johnny does well is be able to get a free pass regardless of how poorly he plays while getting his teammates chucked under the bus to have attention deflected away from him

 

[hotpaws]

JT is no longer a core piece IMO. Moving off him does not change the landscape much IMO.

IMO you have to move off one of the 3 amigos and JT if there is a better option and bring in players that do not shrink in big moments. Marner @ 13.5m is a death wish IMO. Nobody fears him in the regular season much and not at all in the playoffs. Never winning with him as one of your top two paid players. It is laughable if they pay him $13.5m after witnessing the last 6 to 8 playoffs.

so now the excuse to re-sign JT is you don't consider him a core piece , if he gets re-signed and plays the same role he's absolutely still a core piece

you've watched the playoffs , what is it that you see that makes you believe we should re-sign him regardless of price ?

he was a ghost out there , 7pts in 13 games and 3 in his last 11game while playing 1st pp and 18mins a night

what do you believe he'll do if he gets bumped down to the bottom 6 , off the 1st pp and only gets 12/13 mins a night ?

 

[The Shadow]

Ok, you do raise a fair challenge. Subtract Marner and his cap hit, and how do you make this team equal or better than what it is today?

I'll bite lol. Below is my proposal with a few assumptions:

• Rielly agrees to waive his NMC/NTC and is dealt for picks and prospects (HUGE assumption)
• No tampering has occurred and that the Leafs are going to shoot their shot at McDavid knowing that he could re-sign from July 1, 2025 onwards
• The goal is still to win the Stanley Cup next season and beyond. Not just contend, but actually show up and try to win the damn thing.
• Cowan makes the roster and plays like a Top 9 RW (e.g. 3rd line, PP2)

Here's what I would do.

• Let Marner and Tavares walk
• Sign Gavrikov to $6.5M x 6 years (with Rielly gone, that's $24M of capspace left)
• Sign Jake Allen to $1.5M x 1 year ($22.5M left)
• Sign Mikael Granlund to $4.5M x 3 years ($18M left)
• Sign Brad Marchand to $3.5M x 1 year ($14.5M left)
• Sign Brendan Saad to $2M x 2 years ($12.5M left)
• Trade Anthony Stolarz (!!) and Nicholas Robertson to Buffalo for Alex Tuch ($10.5M left). This would be my big gamble for next season, that Joseph Woll is both healthy and able to become a true #1 with Allen and Murray as backups with Hildeby in the wings.

This leaves the Leafs with roughly $35M in capspace for the 2026 Summer.

2025 - 2026 Roster

Knies Matthews Tuch
Marchand Granlund Nylander
Saad Domi Cowan
McMann Laughton Jarnkrok

McCabe Tanev
OEL Gavrikov
Benoit Carlo

Woll
Allen

I'm not sure if this team tips them over the scales against the likes of Florida, Colorado, etc., but it definitely makes them a grittier, tougher team to play against in the playoffs. Guys like Tuch and Gavrikov will block shots, use the stick to break up traffic, and proven winners like Marchand and Saad will play a complete game. Overall, there's still three solid lines of scoring and a good well-rounded Top 6 unless the wheels fall off of Tanev next year.

Goaltending goes from very high net positive to a positive with some question marks. But Woll's 27, had a good season with some solid playoff performances, so I'm banking on him to find that extra gear next year.

That team looks like it would be much easier for Florida to walk over

We need big bodies that can skate and add some offensive value

I’d much rather have Holmberg than Jarnkrok

 

[Maple Leaf]

They can't replace his regular season production
So have to sign him
No choice
It is done

 

[The Shadow]

so now the excuse to re-sign JT is you don't consider him a core piece , if he gets re-signed and plays the same role he's absolutely still a core piece

you've watched the playoffs , what is it that you see that makes you believe we should re-sign him regardless of price ?

he was a ghost out there , 7pts in 13 games and 3 in his last 11game while playing 1st pp and 18mins a night

what do you believe he'll do if he gets bumped down to the bottom 6 , off the 1st pp and only gets 12/13 mins a night ?

He was great until he got punched in the head and concussed. After that I agree he was a ghost. Post concussion issues for sure

 

[Rare Jewel]

They can't replace his regular season production
So have to sign him
No choice
It is done

New winger (60-70 points) + good season from Matthews + Dcore that isn't last in offence.

 

[Antropovsky]

Tavares is by far the worst of all the comps you gave outside of maybe Willie and i have no idea why you brought Hyman up

and celebrate him for what ? he's never accomplished shit his entire career !

he walks on the Islander after 9 yrs of people saying poor JT had to carry a bunch of AHL'ers and they instantly went on to have the most success since their cup teams of the early eighties

he signed the highest cap hit in the league at that time and people are and still calling it a discount , lol , and still praising him even though he never moved the needle here and has never had a good playoffs

all Johnny does well is be able to get a free pass regardless of how poorly he plays while getting his teammates chucked under the bus to have attention deflected away from him

I brought up Hyman to show that the cap % was higher for a 7 year contract vs an 8 year contract.

It was 0.6% higher.

So not only was Tavares cap% very low as is at 13.84% as UFA... but if you used Hymans example..it would have beem 13.24% with the 0.6% off for not having the 8th year. Which would put him under Marners RFA cap%. Which is insanely good discount for the 2x Hart nominee/Center. Marner is a 1x Selke finalist and apparently id looking for mors tham 14.15%.

Matthews could pick his cap %. 13.24% is fine considering Draisaitl signed for 14 million.

If Matthews was as greedy as Marner... we would be looking at maxed percentages and prob offersheets.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I thought the thread title was: "Mitch Marner Pity Party"...

 

[Trapper]

New winger (60-70 points) + good season from Matthews + Dcore that isn't last in offence.

Somehow Washington didn’t have Marner, got Dubois and Strome as centers and won the division.
If Matthews/Nylander can’t be retooled around get rid of them too.

 

[Ports]

Hyman has outproduced his contract every year in Edmonton and in Toronto. Shame Shanny and Dubas could not see who the true playoff performers were. I can see it for Dubas but WFT was Shanny thinking?

They didn’t have the right vision for building the team and refused to give Hyman the no trade protection he wanted and got from the Oilers. They could have probably got him for 8 x $4.75M if they knew what they were doing.

 

[MCR74]

It's unfortunate he was terrible here in the playoffs and no one can remember that...

l'm curious how much playoff success Hyman would have in Columbus or Phoenix/Utah.

 

[Mess]

Marner has recorded 13 playoff goals after 9 playoff years which doesn't even place him the TOP 100 playoff performers in goals scored over that time. BRUTAL !!!!

Bang for your Playoff Buck return on investment.

IF winning the Stanley Cup is the #1 objective, than that makes walking away from Marner a very easy choice from a GOOD for Business perspective, and re-signing him to one of the highest contracts in the NHL about as BAD a decision that any GM could make.

There is no logical or reasonable debate on the actual facts in play here that would suggest otherwise.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Marner has recorded 13 playoff goals after 9 playoff years which doesn't even place him the TOP 100 playoff performers in goals scored over that time. BRUTAL !!!!

Bang for your Playoff Buck return on investment.

IF winning the Stanley Cup is the #1 objective, than that makes walking away from Marner a very easy choice from a GOOD for Business perspective, and re-signing him to one of the highest contracts in the NHL about as BAD a decision that any GM could make.

There is no logical or reasonable debate on the actual facts in play here that would suggest otherwise.

Other teams will look at his 63 points in 70 playoff games when assessing his value and someone will definitely overpay for his services. As long as it's not us.

 

[Mess]

l'm curious how much playoff success Hyman would have in Columbus or Phoenix/Utah.

About the same as Marner because those teams seldom make the playoffs, so its hard to have success in the Stanley Cup playoffs when you're not involved in them and on the Golf course.,

When Marner's NMC was about to kick in I suggested Leafs deal him to Phoenix for Clayton Keller.

There isn't a lot of daylight between the 5th and the 11th leading scorers in the NHL, even though on a small market team with not a lot of offensive support in UTAH that makes Keller's production all that more impressive.

The biggest difference is COST as Marner is at $10.9 mil seeking a large raise and Keller is at $7.15 mil and a cap savings of $3.75 mil.

PS. I believed on reputation at that time the Leafs could extract even more value than just Keller 1-1, but believed he could easily replace the offense of Marner... Take any high scoring player from a small market team and put him on a line with Matthews and a PP with Nylander, Tavares etc and watch him shine.

 

[Mess]

Other teams will look at his 63 points in 70 playoff games when assessing his value and someone will definitely overpay for his services. As long as it's not us.

Some teams struggle to put Butts in the seats during the regular season and Marner is a show pony in the meaningless regular season that sells tickets and worth the price of admission.

He is a proven regular season Warrior and Playoff Paper Tiger.

So someone like San Jose overpaying him, isn't only about winning a Cup, but filling an Arena to help cover operating costs, and a completely different #1 priority. Scotia bank Arena in TO is sold out and filled to the rafters every home game, so you don't need Marner to sell tickets, jerseys etc.

Remember San Jose wanted to overpay Tavares $13 mil to come and play for them because they were desperate for high-end talent. If they would foolishly and desperately offer that for J.T. now 7 years ago under a much smaller Cap, then you can guarantee, for the same reasons today that money will be no object when it comes to Marner this time around. IMO

Leaf's CEO Keith Pelley insists winning divisions and making the playoffs is the bare minimum in season expectations for Toronto now, however winning a Championship their only REAL goal of each season.

The Leafs have outgrown Marner, because when they need him most he disappears annually because he is not built for hard hitting, tight checking playoff style hockey. They need to replace him with playoff warriors if they want to meet their objective of success when it matters most.