Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[ToneDog]

Was that just a rumour though? It's hard to keep track of who said what and how believable it is or isn't. If true that's really bad news and makes me hope much harder that he goes somewhere else. It's bad enough having an 11 million dollar black hole on your team in the big games but 13.5, just puke.

How the f*** is it even possible that his ego's that big?

It was reported last week on the Fan 590 morning show by the hosts and then Seravalli. Starting to believe he does not want to be in Toronto because he feels he gets most of the blame for their playoff failures. If he and Matthews were not so unlikeable, maybe the fans cut them some slack. Not breaking them up in the playoffs showed me the tail is wagging the dog and he needs to go.

 

[centipede2233]

It's also pure, unadulterated greed. Like it's totally within Marner's remit to go get what's his - but it's also totally fair to call him out on putting his own personal well-being above the team's.

If there was no salary cap or a luxury taxed based system, I don't think anyone would really care if he was haggling over $12M vs. $14M and just focus on his on ice suitability.

Agreed. Marner did it to himself. He wanted to get overpaid in a hot hockey market in Canada and his game doesn’t translate to playoff hockey. Add in the fact he continually was adversarial with the fan base after each and every disappointment is like taking gasoline and pouring on an already raging fire. What a PR disaster

 

[Puckstuff]

Suppose the Leafs could retain Marner for around $13 million and acquire Bjugstad for about $3 million, totalling $16 million.

Would you prefer Marner and Bjugstad for $16 million, or a different pair like Boeser and Duchene for the same amount?

I’d take Marner and Bjugstad any day—and keep in mind, it’s not even guaranteed the Leafs could land players as skilled as Duchene or Boeser who probably look elsewhere. The Leafs alternative is probably worse than guys like Boeser and Duchene.

The Leafs winning percentage over the last 2 years without Marner is under .500. Yet they are 18-2-1 without Rielly. I'm down for change, but keep Marner, and boot Rielly... and let each of the big 3 run their own line. That's how we achieve balance and maintain regular season dominance, while continuing to give our selves a chance to break thorough. With Carolina getting dominated by Florida, it's clear the Leafs are the 2nd best team in the Eastern conference. They might be the 2nd best team in the world, having takin Florida to 7 games. It's basically 1. Florida and 2. Edmonton/Toronto/Dallas. Why would we downgrade our team just because we're 2nd out of 32 teams. It's a huge risk and likely to fail.


Knies – Matthews – Domi
Laughton – Tavares – Marner
McMann – Bjugstad – Nylander

 

[Gary Nylund]

It was reported last week on the Fan 590 morning show by the hosts and then Seravalli. Starting to believe he does not want to be in Toronto because he feels he gets most of the blame for their playoff failures. If he and Matthews were not so unlikeable, maybe the fans cut them some slack. Not breaking them up in the playoffs showed me the tail is wagging the dog and he needs to go.

If those guys can be trusted, then just gross.

Suppose the Leafs could retain Marner for around $13 million and Bjugstad for about $3 million, totaling $16 million.

Would you prefer Marner and Bjugstad for $16 million, or a different pair like Boeser and Duchene for the same amount?

I’d take Marner and Bjugstad any day—and keep in mind, it’s not even guaranteed the Leafs could land players as skilled as Duchene or Boeser who probably look elsewhere. The Leafs alternative is probably worse than guys like Boeser and Duchene.


Knies – Matthews – Domi
Laughton – Tavares – Marner
McMann – Bjugstad – Nylander

I stopped reading at the bolded. Just no.

 

[ToneDog]

Suppose the Leafs could retain Marner for around $13 million and Bjugstad for about $3 million, totaling $16 million.

Would you prefer Marner and Bjugstad for $16 million, or a different pair like Boeser and Duchene for the same amount?

I’d take Marner and Bjugstad any day—and keep in mind, it’s not even guaranteed the Leafs could land players as skilled as Duchene or Boeser who probably look elsewhere. The Leafs alternative is probably worse than guys like Boeser and Duchene.


Knies – Matthews – Domi
Laughton – Tavares – Marner
McMann – Bjugstad – Nylander

Neither. Enough is enough. Marner has to go and should no longer be an option IMO.

 

[PromisedLand]

He is a Toronto Boy who wants to to see the Leafs win... if he goes to Florida he will be doing that. Unfortunately for us, Zito is much to smart of a GM. He wont touch Marner with a 13.5 foot pole.

all the f***ing tax havens in the US have been able to sign lower AAV contracts because its the take home pay (i.e. after tax income) that matters.

This is not a plea to sign marner and I don't want him anywhere near the Leafs.

its just that bettman has talked about "parity" but has completely f***ed over other orgs where there is no tax advantage so they cannot lower the aav

the hilarity of the situation may be that marner signs with someone who doesn't do most of the contract in signing bonuses and then gets bought out with 3 to 4 years into the contract with a compliance BO LMAO

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Suppose the Leafs could retain Marner for around $13 million and Bjugstad for about $3 million, totaling $16 million.

Would you prefer Marner and Bjugstad for $16 million, or a different pair like Boeser and Duchene for the same amount?

I’d take Marner and Bjugstad any day—and keep in mind, it’s not even guaranteed the Leafs could land players as skilled as Duchene or Boeser who probably look elsewhere. The Leafs alternative is probably worse than guys like Boeser and Duchene.

The Leafs winning percentage over the last 2 years without Marner is under .500. Yet they are 18-2-1 without Rielly. I'm down for change, but keep Marner, and boot Rielly... and let each of the big 3 run their own line. That's how we achieve balance and maintain regular season dominance, while continuing to give our selves a chance to break thorough. With Carolina getting dominated by Florida, it's clear the Leafs are the 2nd


Knies – Matthews – Domi
Laughton – Tavares – Marner
McMann – Bjugstad – Nylander

I'd rather Marner and Tavares walk to recoup the $21M. That would be my first choice, especially because I am skeptical that Rielly will waive his NMC and that even if he did waive, Treliving could find a suitable dance partner without serious retention.

But, if we play by your scenarios and Rielly DOES waive for prospects, picks, and no retention, then I would take Marner on $13M X 8 + Bjugstad over Boeser and Duchene lol. But this would be only under the stipulation that there is either NO NMC/NTC for Marner until Year 4 of the contract OR a 10-team NTC for all 8 years of the contract. If he agrees to that, I'm game. If not, he can piss into the wind.

 

[Puckstuff]

Neither. Enough is enough. Marner has to go and should no longer be an option IMO.

Well with Carolina getting dominated by Florida it's looking like Toronto is the 2nd best team in the East. And they might be the 2nd best team in the entire NHL. If that's true (and it looks like it) when Florida loses Marchand because they won't be able to circumvent the cap again, the Leafs are a lot closer. The difference is 1 game between us and the best team in the NHL, and they are going to lose Marchand, which should narrow the gap.

 

[The Shadow]

Well with Carolina getting dominated by Florida it's looking like Toronto is the 2nd best team in the East. And they might be the 2nd best team in the entire NHL. If that's true (and it looks like it) when Florida loses Marchand because they won't be able to circumvent the cap again, the Leafs are a lot closer. The difference is 1 game between us and the best team in the NHL, and they are going to lose Marchand, which should narrow the gap.

Toronto is not better than Dallas and probably not better than Edmonton.

 

[IPS]

Well with Carolina getting dominated by Florida it's looking like Toronto is the 2nd best team in the East. And they might be the 2nd best team in the entire NHL.

This is precisely the same logic why this team has ran it back and failed for the last 9 years

Some people are really slow learners.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Given how standoffish Marner has been with the media and the fan reaction throughout the season, and in Game 7, can you imagine the reception he'd get if he did re-sign here? I can't see his family or agent supporting him on such a decision irrespective of his attachment to the Leafs, his teammates, etc.

It's like a lot of us were saying - everyone has a price. I think his is $14M+. If the Leafs are insane enough to offer that, then he'll probably stay. Otherwise, he's going to a rebuilding/playoff bubble team for $14M+ or to a low tax/tax free contender for $11M-$12M (e.g. Vegas).

My hunch is that Treliving WILL put a feeler out to Marner's camp with something like $12M x 8 full NMC/NTC, which will get promptly rejected. It's one of those offers that everyone knows will be there just to save collective face but has no realistic viability. Everyone will breath a collective sigh of relief, and life will move on.

 

[ToneDog]

Well with Carolina getting dominated by Florida it's looking like Toronto is the 2nd best team in the East. And they might be the 2nd best team in the entire NHL. If that's true (and it looks like it) when Florida loses Marchand because they won't be able to circumvent the cap again, the Leafs are a lot closer. The difference is 1 game between us and the best team in the NHL, and they are going to lose Marchand, which should narrow the gap.

Pure speculation. No guarantee Leafs can beat Carolina, Washington, NJ with a healthy Jack H or Tampa in a 7 game series. This core disappears when it counts. They need to prove otherwise.

 

[Puckstuff]

This is precisely the same logic why this team has ran it back and failed for the last 9 years

Some people are really slow learners.

And with your logic the Leafs will fall from the top 4 out of 32 teams to barely making the playoffs. But that's better because "I need my change"

I'd rather stay at the top then slide down.

If the Leafs lose Marner we are sliding down to Montreal territory.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well with Carolina getting dominated by Florida it's looking like Toronto is the 2nd best team in the East. And they might be the 2nd best team in the entire NHL. If that's true (and it looks like it) when Florida loses Marchand because they won't be able to circumvent the cap again, the Leafs are a lot closer. The difference is 1 game between us and the best team in the NHL, and they are going to lose Marchand, which should narrow the gap.

Let's not get carried away here. This core has never finished top 3 regular season, and never gotten past the second round and they haven't even made it that far very often.

In any case, this thread is about Marner and regardless of whether the team is the 2nd best, 10th best or whatever, saying goodbye to the playoff wuss and prioritizing players who aren't afraid of playoff style hockey can only help our chances of going deep.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Toronto is not better than Dallas and probably not better than Edmonton.

I think both/multiple points can be true.

• Toronto was probably better than regular season Dallas and Edmonton.
• Playoffs Toronto doesn't look as strong as Dallas or Edmonton based on the eye test
• Florida will probably win the Cup this year and Toronto will have been their toughest match up. Not because Playoff Toronto was better than playoff Dallas and Edmonton, but because Florida needed serious competition to galvanize them into their current juggernaut.

My initial prediction all along was Florida in 5. Had this current iteration of Florida showed up in Game 1 versus the Leafs, I think it would have ended in 4 or 5, not 7.

 

[Gary Nylund]

And with your logic the Leafs will fall from the top 4 out of 32 teams to barely making the playoffs. But that's better because "I need my my change"

I'd rather stay at the top then slide down.

If the Leafs lose Marner we are sliding down to Montreal territory.

We're at the top? Well hell why didn't you just say so to begin with, I had no idea. Hey everyone, we're at the top, isn't that awesome? We really need to beg Marner to stay at any price because ... we're at the top!!

 

[ToneDog]

Given how standoffish Marner has been with the media and the fan reaction throughout the season, and in Game 7, can you imagine the reception he'd get if he did re-sign here? I can't see his family or agent supporting him on such a decision irrespective of his attachment to the Leafs, his teammates, etc.

It's like a lot of us were saying - everyone has a price. I think his is $14M+. If the Leafs are insane enough to offer that, then he'll probably stay. Otherwise, he's going to a rebuilding/playoff bubble team for $14M+ or to a low tax/tax free contender for $11M-$12M (e.g. Vegas).

My hunch is that Treliving WILL put a feeler out to Marner's camp with something like $12M x 8 full NMC/NTC, which will get promptly rejected. It's one of those offers that everyone knows will be there just to save collective face but has no realistic viability. Everyone will breath a collective sigh of relief, and life will move on.

I can see the Leafs making him an offer they know he will refuse to make Marner out to be the bad guy. At that point Marner will have pretty much burned all his bridges with this fan base. He will not be looked upon like a Doug Gilmour or Wendel Clark.

 

[IPS]

And with your logic the Leafs will fall from the top 4 out of 32 teams to barely making the playoffs. But that's better because "I need my change"

I'd rather stay at the top then slide down.

If the Leafs lose Marner we are sliding down to Montreal territory.

So was the Randy Carlyle team in 2013 that took the Bruins team that went to the cup finals a "close team" too then?

you can literally find countless examples over the years of bubble/low seed teams taking cup contenders / cup winners to 7 games.

 

[Puckstuff]

We're at the top? Well hell why didn't you just say so to begin with, I had no idea. Hey everyone, we're at the top, isn't that awesome? We really need to beg Marner to stay at any price because ... we're at the top!!

Marner Derangement Syndrome is real, lol. Unless you can explain how this team gets better not just different, by replacing Marner with actual upgrades, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight. What’s the master plan, bring in a 38-year-old Marchand?

 

[thewave]

Marner Derangement Syndrome is real, lol. Unless you can explain how this team gets better not just different, by replacing Marner with actual upgrades, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight. What’s the master plan, bring in a 38-year-old Marchand?

Marner is a negative in a hard playoff series against a team like FLA. They are young and we are going to have to get by them. It's not hard to figure out that 14m Marner wrecks our cap.

The derangement syndrome is along the lines of Marner fans think he will get better in the next 4 years which he won't. He is about to start sliding in speed and production.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner Derangement Syndrome is real, lol. Unless you can explain how this team gets better not just different, by replacing Marner with actual upgrades, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight. What’s the master plan, bring in a 38-year-old Marchand?

Replace him with players that can play in the playoffs and don’t easily get pushed out, particularly in the games when it gets harder to play.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner Derangement Syndrome is real, lol. Unless you can explain how this team gets better not just different, by replacing Marner with actual upgrades, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight. What’s the master plan, bring in a 38-year-old Marchand?

Marner at 13M is a really bad idea, period. If that opinion "doesn't carry much weight" with you, that's fine.

Replacing Marner with Marchand makes us a better playoff team, you just answered your own question. If we could get him on a one year deal, I'd be all over that. See how easy that was?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is a negative in a hard playoff series against a team like FLA. They are young and we are going to have to get by them. It's not hard to figure out that 14m Marner wrecks our cap.

The derangement syndrome is along the lines of Marner fans think he will get better in the next 4 years which he won't. He is about to start sliding in speed and production.

Oh yeah, a few years from now, Marner will be a force baby. Just wait until you see him after he starts realizing all that untapped potential!

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner is a negative in a hard playoff series against a team like FLA. They are young and we are going to have to get by them. It's not hard to figure out that 14m Marner wrecks our cap.

The derangement syndrome is along the lines of Marner fans think he will get better in the next 4 years which he won't. He is about to start sliding in speed and production.

“We can and will” turned out to be we can and we didn’t. Replace any two of the four with McDrai and there’s a good chance it would have worked.

 

[thewave]

“We can and will” turned out to be we can and we didn’t. Replace any two of the four with McDrai and there’s a good chance it would have worked.

Exactly 100%.

We can and we will. Trust the plan. It's a continuous process. We are right there. It's a learning experience.

Excuses defines the Shanahan Dubas era of Leafs